Helferin Items

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Siegfried Wilhelm
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#16

Post by Siegfried Wilhelm » 20 Mar 2006, 18:06

Even scarcer did you notice in her Luftwaffe selection above was a death card to a woman! That's something you sure don't see every day!
By the way, notice that in the Kriegsmarine photo is an identity book--you can see the word 'Soldbuch' was once covered with tape. Converted to a female Einsatzbuch? If so, that's a rare thing too.
All this is stuff one hardly ever sees!

SW~

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Vikki
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#17

Post by Vikki » 21 Mar 2006, 04:24

David, Paul, Snookie, and Siegfried:

You're all right, TR women's militaria, especially the more "ephemeral" items like paper, are unusual to find. That's a large part of the fascination---and a large part of the frustration---of collecting it.

Thanks very much for your comments! At the risk of sounding like a "Femi-Nazi" (pun intended! :lol: ), it's an unusual man (not to mention four of them!) who recognises women's items and appreciates their rarity.

For that matter, it's a rarity to find women who appreciate them....


~FV


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moses
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#18

Post by moses » 21 Mar 2006, 06:14

i would love to have such rare things so that i might design a repro pattern of them :)

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PaulReck
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#19

Post by PaulReck » 21 Mar 2006, 06:26

Can you please post some close ups of the documents, death cards, and photos?

Regards
Paul

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Vikki
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#20

Post by Vikki » 21 Mar 2006, 06:33

Siegfried,

The Kriegsmarine book is a Soldbuch converted to a female’s Einsatzbuch. And page 1 has the title “Soldbuch” crossed out in ink and rewritten as “Einsatzbuch,” which confirms both our suspicions that the tape (or more likely, from the looks of it, a piece of glued paper), was originally on the cover bearing the same title.

Helferinnen, and even male civilian contractors with the German military, were issued an Einsatzbuch or Personal-Ausweis, rather than the Soldbuch (“military" paybook), because of their quasi- or not-quite-(recognized) military standing.

My female Kriegsmarine book was one of those conversions that was done late in the war, when Soldbücher were sometimes simply converted straight to Einsatzbücher. The document was issued in November 1944, when the woman served with a Kriegsmarine unit in Norway: Torp. Kdo. Horten.

~FV




Siegfried Wilhelm wrote:Even scarcer did you notice in her Luftwaffe selection above was a death card to a woman! That's something you sure don't see every day!
By the way, notice that in the Kriegsmarine photo is an identity book--you can see the word 'Soldbuch' was once covered with tape. Converted to a female Einsatzbuch? If so, that's a rare thing too.
All this is stuff one hardly ever sees!

SW~

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Vikki
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#21

Post by Vikki » 21 Mar 2006, 07:37

Moses and Paul,

I, of all people, understand how scarce women's items are. I'm flattered by your appreciation of them, but I have to ask......Why?

Perhaps you've noticed that my scans of female paper items always have a corner cut off, or the bottom obscured.....As a collector, there are several reasons why I'm not fond of happening on copies of items in my collection on EBay, or German EBay, being offered as "originals," as has happened a couple of times.

On the other hand, (I think) I've been quite generous to both researchers and re-enactors with documents and insignia from my collection. I truly love these pieces, and love sharing them with people who are really interested. My only question before opening up the cases is: Why?

~FV

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FRANCY RITTER
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#22

Post by FRANCY RITTER » 21 Mar 2006, 10:52

Hello to all!! :)

From old Ebay auction..Luftwaffe Helf. photo :wink:


Image

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Matt Gibbs
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#23

Post by Matt Gibbs » 21 Mar 2006, 14:23

Glad I sneaked out of the awards and badges forum to notice these Fraulein! ;)
Excellent items, especially some of those rare badges. *drool*
Matt Gibbs

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moses
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#24

Post by moses » 21 Mar 2006, 14:29

oh i understand, i'm not seriously asking for a detailed photo study so i can copy a hat. i just enjoy odd projects like that. same reason i've made m43 and m34 feldmütze patterns...i use the excuse that i plan to sell them some day, but i haven't really taken any steps in that direction. i really just like doing it so i can say i did it, same with my scratch built model boats and tank and all. and i enjoy unique items of that era. i've wanted to make a heer summer officer's jacket for a while. why? it's not of use to anyone. i just think it looks cool.

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PaulReck
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#25

Post by PaulReck » 21 Mar 2006, 19:33

I too am interested only in getting a good look at the items in your collection. No mal intent here either. I too collect obsure items(non combattant medal bars, German lifesaving medals, and other under appreciated items) and have a true appreciation of other "not so common items" when I see them. My reuest for photos was only for my education.

Thanks
Paul

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Vikki
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#26

Post by Vikki » 22 Mar 2006, 04:50

moses and Paul,

Sorry if I sounded defensive. But your information about your "construction" hobby and collecting areas was interesting! (Non-combatant medal bars? I never even thought of that!)

I was also being slightly lazy, as I have to get a friend to do the scans for me.

Which items are you particularly interested in seeing in more detail?

~FV

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PaulReck
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#27

Post by PaulReck » 22 Mar 2006, 05:15

No offence taken. I collect NC WW1 and earlier EK2 medal bars as well and German lifesaving medals. These are just a couple of my focuses.

I am interested in looking at the death card and the ID book in this pic
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Erich
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#28

Post by Erich » 25 Mar 2006, 01:37

FV :

I would be curious on your thoughts of the appropriate helferin insignia for a Luftwaffe female radio operator working with either NJG 6 or NJG 100 on the Ost front from 43-till wars end. have a customer I have known for years released this info about 5 years ago but refuses to talk of her service career during the war, except to say she worked closely with (in her case) ground to the air crews directly. sorry for the unpreciseness of this remark but this is all she has given to me with a pretty little wink from her golden head.

impressive collection of little known items

Gruß

Erich ~

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Vikki
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#29

Post by Vikki » 25 Mar 2006, 05:40

Erich,

As a Luftnachrichtenhelferin (Ln.-Helferin), your friend would have of course worn the Luftwaffe eagle on her cap, on the right breast of her jacket, and possibly on the right breast of her work smock as well. On the upper left sleeve of her jacket, she would have worn the qualification patch of a Funkerin: the same patch as male Luftwaffe radio operators, a cluster of four lightning bolts with a rod horizontally through the center, in white embroidery on blue-grey cloth. The patch would have been outlined in silver piping if she were of NCO or higher rank. One centimetre below the specialty patch she would have worn her rank insignium of thin silver Tresse (see the bottom of my scan of Ln.-Helferin items), with the number of bars and design depending on her rank.

For part of her career, she might have worn the second style service brooch on her tie when in uniform (my example in the photo is a stickpin type), which replaced the round service brooch in 1942. In 1943 even the second style service brooch was discontinued. However, in the Personal-Ausweis of a Ln.-Helferin that I show, the clothing issue pages indicate that the Helferin's Dienstnadel wasn't taken away from her until 14 May 1944. (A new clothing issuance is noted on that day, apparently specifically for the purpose of taking the service brooch away from her.) So, your friend also might have worn a similar brooch as late as that.

Your friend's story is fascinating, and thanks for sharing it! Although I'm not surprised by her hesitance to give you details: female veterans can be as reticent as male ones, especially in these days of "political correctness." And that reticence can come from any number of possible reasons. If you find out anything else about her service, I'd be extremely interested to hear it!

~FV

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Erich
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#30

Post by Erich » 25 Mar 2006, 06:04

FV vielen Dank !

copying and pasting your remarks as there maybe an inkling of a way after she reads this that she may chat just a bit. She and her section were captured by US army personell. And she married from what I understand a US serviceman one of the occupiers of her home town as she recalls it soon after the war. Her hubby has passed away many years ago, long before I ever met Inga. As she puts it, no time to talk of the horrible times of the past, that was long ago, it is time to live !

we will see as I can get quite persistant 8-)

E ~

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