пр-ком Abbreviation

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Dann Falk
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пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 10 Sep 2020 22:40

Greetings all,

I was translating a TsAMO record and came across the abbreviation пр-ком. I looked through all my records/books/papers and could not find it. Any Ideas?
Russian Text 10 Sept -2.jpg
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GregSingh
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by GregSingh » 11 Sep 2020 01:03

с противником = with the enemy
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 11 Sep 2020 01:25

So the translation of #2 would be...

2. The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines, carried out reconnaissance with the enemy and the actions of small groups of reconnaissance. The position of the troops is unchanged.

GregSingh
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by GregSingh » 11 Sep 2020 04:04

carried out reconnaissance with the enemy
were engaged in a shootout (or exchanged fire) with the enemy
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 11 Sep 2020 16:34

Greetings GregSingh,

Thanks for the text correction and abbreviation info. I have lists of hundreds of abbreviations and acronyms and could not find this one.

Cheers
Dann

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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 11 Sep 2020 16:45

I'm working on my second book, and just for fun, here is my translation of the report. This will give everyone an idea of what you can find in the TsAMO archives,

Guards Colonel Kupriyanov issued a, Combat report of the headquarters of the 7th Guards Army #641/OP, (TsAMO ID #454035184).

1. During the past night, no significant changes occurred at the army front. The enemy continued to defend themselves and, with undisturbed fire, especially from infantry weapons, fired at the position of our troops. Enemy aviation conducted reconnaissance with [a] single aircraft.
2. The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines, exchanged fire with the enemy and the actions of small groups of [enemy] reconnaissance [troops]. The position of [our] troops is unchanged.
3. Communication with the troops is [by] telegraph and telephone, [and] with neighbors by telegraph.

Paul_Atreides
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Paul_Atreides » 12 Sep 2020 18:38

Dann Falk wrote:
11 Sep 2020 16:45
2. The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines, exchanged fire with the enemy and the actions of small groups of [enemy] reconnaissance [troops].
The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines, exchanged fire with the enemy and conducted reconnaissance of the enemy by small groups.
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 12 Sep 2020 21:29

Much improved, thanks for your help Paul.

Dann

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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Art » 12 Sep 2020 21:47

Dann Falk wrote:
11 Sep 2020 16:45
1. During the past night, no significant changes occurred at the army front. The enemy continued to defend themselves and, with undisturbed fire, especially from infantry weapons, fired at the position of our troops. Enemy aviation conducted reconnaissance with [a] single aircraft.
2. The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines, exchanged fire with the enemy and the actions of small groups of [enemy] reconnaissance [troops]. The position of [our] troops is unchanged.
3. Communication with the troops is [by] telegraph and telephone, [and] with neighbors by telegraph.
Not a literal translation but closer to the meaning:
1. ...The enemy continued to defend and engaged with harassing fire positions of our troops, especially with infantry weapons. Hostile aviation conducted reconnaissance by single airplanes.
2. The troops of the army occupied and fortified their former positions...

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 13 Sep 2020 01:18

Yes, that is the problem I'm having. Where do you stop translating and start writing the intent of the text? Reading between the lines.

I'll see how I can change my text to add your comments.

Thanks for your input Art.

Dann

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Jeff Leach
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Jeff Leach » 13 Sep 2020 10:39

Dann Falk wrote:
13 Sep 2020 01:18
Yes, that is the problem I'm having. Where do you stop translating and start writing the intent of the text? Reading between the lines.

...

Dann
Neither German or Russian translates that well into English. You do a good translation get an understandable text in English. Read it and all you notice is 'that isn't at all how I would write it in English'.

t.ex. "The troops of the army occupied and absorbed in engineering terms the former lines..." doesn't really mean anything in English. I would probably say something like, "The troops occupied their old position and used their engineering assets to improve them ..." although 'engineeing assets' is probably wrong.

I would suggest you try to write the translation in good English while keeping to its original intent.

Art
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Art » 13 Sep 2020 13:39

IMO word by word translation from Russian to English always looks a little clumsy. Also in this case you've got a specific phrase characteristic of military speak which doesn't translate well to other languages. I believe, here preservation of the meaning of the text takes precedence over preservation of specific words and their order.

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 13 Sep 2020 19:57

Good advice from both of you.

Once before I changed a similar text to - strengthened their positions in engineering terms. and in another section I used The troops of the army continued to occupy and fortify the former lines.

Both of these work and keeps the intent of the statement.

Much thanks for your comments. I will now go back and make some changes to clean up the text.

Dann

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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by EEP76 » 15 Sep 2020 16:54

Hi!
I offer a translation option for this document.

Combat report No. 0641/op SHTARM (army headquarters) 7th Guards. By 6.00 on June 19, 1944
Map 100.000 [Map scale 1: 10000]

1. Over the past night, there have been no significant changes at the army front. The enemy continued to defend. Аnd harass [Weak. Rare] us with fire. Fired at our positions.For this, most of all, he used infantry weapons.
Enemy aircraft conducted reconnaissance with single aircraft.

2. The troops of the army were in their old positions [They were at the old line] and strengthened the old lines in engineering terms. ["The troops of the army continued to occupy and fortify the former lines". This is a great option]
Exchanged fire with the enemy. [Shooting in turn]
Our troops carried out reconnaissance in small groups.
The position of the troops is unchanged.
3. Communication with the troops is telegraph and telephone, with neighbors by telegraph.

Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army
Guard Colonel - Kupriyanov

I hope my English is not very bad :)

Dann Falk
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Re: пр-ком Abbreviation

Post by Dann Falk » 15 Sep 2020 21:48

Once again good information, additions and insights.

Now its up to me to balance out the text and make it read well.

I did not know that Colonel Kupriyanov was the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army. Good insight.

Thanks for your help EEP76

Dann

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