Hard demographic data on RKKA?

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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 02 Oct 2021 14:26

Art wrote:
02 Oct 2021 11:52
Report on social composition of the 244 Rifle Division as of 24.4.42:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=156026951

Commanders - 791 total, incl.:
Manual workers - 249
Collective farmers - 83
Employees (clerks, office workers) - 408
others - 51

Political officers - 150 total, incl.:
Workers - 37
Collective farmers - 14
Employees - 86
Others - 13

Junior commanders (NCOs) - 2265 total, incl.:
workers - 1027
collective farmers - 642
employees - 575
others - 12

Privates - 7901 total, incl.:
Workers - 1027
Collective farmers - 2785
Employees - 1023
Others - 57

"White collar" nature of the officer corps is obvious.
Thanks Art.

You appear to have repeated the NCO worker tally for the private's worker tally (4,036), assuming I'm reading the table correctly from the context you've provided. So even among privates, this division was mostly workers/employees.

Workers - again assuming that's manual workers - were only 15-20% of Soviet population (depending on definition AFAICS) but 48% of division personnel.

Collective farmers - 55% of the broader working population - were only 32% of division personnel.

If the division was representative of RKKA in April 1942 then it suggests (far from proves) that RKKA's peasant proportion would have increased later, as there simply weren't enough workers/employees to maintain a 68% non-peasant personnel distribution as losses piled up.
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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 02 Oct 2021 14:56

Corrected.
244 RD was formed near Stalingrad, hence a large number of industrial workers.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 22 Nov 2021 09:36

Continuing with pieces if statistics:
..Young men of Trancasaucasus of pre-war years had sufficiently high level of education and in their large part commanded Russian language.
All that can be illustrated by results of the 1939 conscription campaign when young men born in 1917-1919 were enrolled to the military. They demonstrated that education level of recruits was far above the average level of Transcaucasus. 27.5% of them had secondary and 22.1% partial secondary education (7-9 grades), 2.4% - higher education. Only 1 518 (1.4%) were illiterate and 16% partly literate* (in average in the Trancaucasus region 10.68% of the population had secondary and 1.11% - higher education)...
From A. Bezugolniy:
https://journals.openedition.org/pipss/3724
One should keep in mind that in 1939 a new law on military service was adopted which abolished previous deferments for school pupils and university students. Hence a large increase in recruitment of educated young people to the military in this year.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 23 Nov 2021 10:37

According to the official statistical digest at the start of the academic year 1940/41 there were 33.3 million pupils attending 1-8 grades of the primary and secondary schools (average 4.25 million per grade) and 1.18 million attending 9-10 grades of the advanced secondary school (0.6 million per grade). The number of pupils graduating from the secondary school (with a complete secondary education) was about 0.3 million.
That can be compared with the size of the teenagers age cohort of about 3.5-4 million men. So roughly 10% of prospective recruits could have complete secondary education.
The number of university students in 1940 was 812 thousand, the number of admissions - 263 thousand, graduations - 126 thousand.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 24 Nov 2021 06:37

In July 1939 the chief of the RKKA Administrative-Mobilization Directorate estimated that available for conscription in 1939 were 1,547,000 young men (born in the second half of 1918 and 1919), of them:
- with higher education - 13,000
- with completed secondary school education (10 grades) - 70,000
- completed 7, 8 or 9 school grades - 375,000
- 4, 5 and 6 school grades - 666,000

Potential recruits included:
465,584 manual workers (30.2%)
853,530 peasants (55.1%)
197,441 employees (12.8%)
30,445 others (1.9%)

3,136 communist party members and candidates
367,109 Komsomol members (23.6%)

Prescribed percentage of party and Komsomol members among recruits enrolled to arms and services:
Navy - 45%
air forces, armored troops, fortified regions and NKVD troops - 40%
artillery and coast artillery - 35%
chemical, signals, engineer, automobile, survey, railroad and garrison troops - 30%
infantry, cavalry and supply services - 20%
Special railroad corps railroad operation regiments - 20%
Construction battalions - 15%

From a memorandum on conscription to the Red Army, Navy and NKVD troops in 1939, 19 July 1939:
https://wbh.wp.mil.pl/c/scans/WKA_VIII_ ... 0_1_14.pdf

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 25 Nov 2021 16:28

A report on recruits conscripted to the RKKA, Navy and NKVD troops in 1938:

Higher education - 7,576
Completed secondary school - 34,685
Partial secondary school (6-9 grades) - 197,923
Completed ground school (4-5 grades) - 484,293
Partly literate (2-3 grades) - 107,286
Illiterate - 667
(total 832,730)

VKP(b) members - 741
VKP(b) candidates - 3229
sympathizers (whatever this means) - 427
Komsomol members and candidates - 278,343

https://wbh.wp.mil.pl/c/scans/WKA_VIII_ ... 00_2_3.pdf

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 27 Nov 2021 12:59

Art wrote:
24 Nov 2021 06:37
- with completed secondary school education (10 grades) - 70,000
Was only 10 grades standard? At what age would graduation occur? I guess I'm wondering whether Soviet "completed secondary education" approximated American (12 grades finishing at age 18 usually).
Art wrote:Potential recruits included:
465,584 manual workers (30.2%)
853,530 peasants (55.1%)
197,441 employees (12.8%)
30,445 others (1.9%)
Is this the full male age cohort or is this after some initial screening for suitability? The number of men seems lower than indicated by the ~4.25mil per grade in your preceding post but birthrates were surely lower, and infant mortality higher, in 1918/19 than when the average 1939 Soviet pupil was born.
Art wrote:
25 Nov 2021 16:28
Komsomol members and candidates - 278,343
So it looks like 1938 recruits were 33.4% Komsomols, while the 1939 pool was only 23.6% Komsomols. Some evidence of Komsomol membership being higher in the prewar RKKA than in the country at large.

The educational categories don't overlap between 1938 and 1939 in your data (6-9 grouping versus 7-9 grouping) but there's no evidence here of higher-than-average educational attainment in the 1938 conscripts at the higher levels.

Then again:
One should keep in mind that in 1939 a new law on military service was adopted which abolished previous deferments for school pupils and university students. Hence a large increase in recruitment of educated young people to the military in this year.
...so 1938 would be the last year in which students evaded military service (which makes sense).

Thanks for all this data, Art.
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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 27 Nov 2021 15:10

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
27 Nov 2021 12:59
Was only 10 grades standard?
What do you mean by standard? Formally only the ground school (1-4 grades) was obligatory for all, while 7 grades were obligatory in urban areas. Only a minority of pupils contunied education in higher grades. More than that in 1940 a payment for education in higher grades of the secondary school (8-10 grades) and in professional schools and universities was introduced, which means that it wasn't free anymore.
Theoretically, if moving from grade to grade without pauses and interruptions, pupils could graduate from the secondary school when they were 17 or 18. Pratically, it seems to be more complicated as the law on military service of 1930 stipualted deferments for pupils of secondary schools until the age of 25. These deferments were abolished by the new law introduced in 1939.
How the Soviet school of 1940 compares with the modern American school - I don't know, one needs to analyze the school programs.
Is this the full male age cohort or is this after some initial screening for suitability? The number of men seems lower than indicated by the ~4.25mil per grade in your preceding post but birthrates were surely lower, and infant mortality higher, in 1918/19 than when the average 1939 Soviet pupil was born.
4 million boys and girls within the 1941 borders. The cohorts of 1919 and 1920 within 1939 borders were smaller. According to the census of 1939 there were about 1.5 million men born in 1918 and 1.2 million born in 1919. In the report quoted above the number of men subject to conscription in 1939 was determined as 908,000 of those born in 1919 and 639,000 of those born in the second half of 1918. I guess, these numbers resulted from preliminary registration and didn't include men who were legally not subject to consciption (members of "non-labour" classes, convicts and disenfranchised by courts) and permenantly unfit for physical reasons. Further screeening for various reasons was exepcted. In particular this report says that in 1937 47,785 (or 2.5% of the total number of recruits) recieved deferments as pupils of secondary school or university students, in 1938 - 55,895 (or 3.5%), in 1939 the number was expected to be 76,800 (or 5%).
As already said these deferments were in fact abolished in 1939. The actual conscirption in the year 1939 was 1.8 million accoridng to Bezugolniy. That was porbably a result of the extension of military service by the law of 1939 and retrospective conscription of older ages (born before 1 July 1918).
So it looks like 1938 recruits were 33.4% Komsomols, while the 1939 pool was only 23.6% Komsomols.
One thing is potential recruits and the second is actual conscription. Naturally, when a surplus of potential recruits was present they tried to select more valuable.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 28 Nov 2021 08:53

It should also be added that the military service law of 1939 also lowered the conscription age for graduates of secondary shools. While normally conscripts were drafted in the year when they turned 19, secondary school graduates were drafted in the year when they turned 18. As a result graduates born in 1920 and 1921 were added to the pool of potential recruits (1.55 mln) described above. The law also abolished earlier class limitations making military service obligatory for all citizens regardless of social origin. As a result by October 1939 the pool of recruits subject to conscription expanded to 1,773,631 men. In addition 141,450 young men who were exempted from earlier drafts of 1937 and 1938 were called for reexamination, about 100,000 of them were drafted to military service:
https://wbh.wp.mil.pl/c/scans/WKA_VIII_ ... 0_1_23.pdf
I guess, the latter category included those school and university students who were given deferments according to the old military service law.

My impression is that due to changes in the law an unusually large number of educated men were drafted to the military in 1939-40, although I haven't found general figures. The explicit desire of the army leadership was to use this pool for tranining of NCOs and reserve officers. According to the presentation of the new law given by Voroshilov on 31 August 1939:
Under the existing law, secondary school pupils are given a deferment up to the age of 25 and universtity students up to the age of 28. Young people usually graduate from secondary school at the age of 18. This age is also established by the new law as the age for for conscription to military service of secondary school graduates. Thus, those who graduate from secondary school will have to enter the military in the same year, because no delays will be given for admission to the university. A deferments will be granted only for graduation from secondary school itself, if due to illness or other valid reasons, the recruit does not have time to graduate from secondary school before the age of 18. In this case, he will be granted a deferment for graduation, but not more than until the age of 20.

Since, according to the new law, seondary school graduates will first have to do their active military service and only after that go to universities, the question of deferments for students of higher educational institutions will disappear by itself. For students studying in universities at the present moment, the deferments remain on the same basis.

The conscription of young people at the age of 18 immediately after graduating from a secondary educational institution will give the army and navy a large influx of Soviet intelligentsia.

In 1939, we are calling about 145,000 secondary school graduates. This also includes those who received a deferment at different times. This is a sizable detachment, from which not only regimental schools will be recruited, but also speciallized units. From the same contingents officers of reserve (junior lieutenants, lieutenants, military technicians, etc.) will be trained for wartime.

The procedure established by the new law for the recruitment of school graduates to active military service is a measure that cannot be called anything but a measure of restoring justice. Indeed, what has happened so far? High school pupils could stay there up to the age of 25, and students up to the age of 28. And only upon reaching the specified age, i.e. being, as a rule, already burdened with their own family and years, students or university graduates came to the recruiting station. According to the law, all these persons served in the Army for 1 year .... Did the Army have a lot of this contingent in its ranks? No, very few. Those who graduated from universities, to a large part, got a job in various important and not important institutions, where they often recieved new deferments, up to the age 30 years, when they were exempted from conscription. It turned out that the state spent money on teaching these citizens, but they did not even fulfill their civic duty to it, did not go to the Red Army.

Meanwhile, with the development of our army and its technology, the army needs a huge number of intelligent people. The law, meeting the needs of the Red Army and the Navy, eliminates this still existing injustice against other young people and satisfies the need of defense.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 28 Nov 2021 19:29

According to Bezugolniy the draft of 1939 was the largest of pre-war drafts and also the most "diverse" so to say, since it included ethnic groups which were previously mostly exempted from conscription. Whereas in 1936-37 Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussians made 88-89% of thee total number of conscripts, in 1939 they made 76%. At the same time conscription of minorities multiplied. In 1939 166,447 people belonging to Central Asia ethnic groups were drafted versus 8,816 in 1937 and 94,810 Georgians, Armenians and Azeris vs. 17,514 in 1937. Liquidation of national units in 1938 meant that they were distributed among common divisions and units. As a resut the Sovieyt military by 1941 became more multiethnic that it was in mid-30s or previously, at least as far as enlisted personnel is concerned.

As of 1 January 1941 four largest ethnic groups (Russian, Ukrainains, Belorussians and Jews) made:
93.48% of Red Army's officers
95.9% of military academies students
92.35% of cadets
90.06% of NCOs
but 78.78% of privates.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 29 Nov 2021 04:53

Art wrote:
27 Nov 2021 15:10
What do you mean by standard?
Does "completed secondary school" always means 10 grades only?
Art wrote:Theoretically, if moving from grade to grade without pauses and interruptions, pupils could graduate from the secondary school when they were 17 or 18.
So grade 1 started at around 8/9 years old?
Art wrote:One thing is potential recruits and the second is actual conscription. Naturally, when a surplus of potential recruits was present they tried to select more valuable.
Of course. I'm just trying to form a picture of the relative selectiveness of the pre-/early-war RKKA and later years. Like all major WW2 combatants, selectiveness would have declined later.
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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 29 Nov 2021 10:13

Yes, by "full" or "complete" secondary school they meant 10 grades.

Obligatory primary school education was introduced beginning from the age of 8. Some probably entered the school earlier, but I haven't really checked it.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 03 Dec 2021 09:39

It is worth to add that according to the Red Army's plans for mobilization in 1941 enlisted men with higher and complete secondary educations were to be automatically promoted to officer positions (provided that they completed NCO traning) or sent to officer schools with the start of mobilization. It can be expected that this draft of educated class of 1939-40 made a sizeable portion of the Soviet officer corps in war. As an example I stumbled across a bio of a known director of epic war films:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Ozerov_(director)
Conscription to the army in 1939 from a theatrical institution, trained as NCO of signals troops, comissioned as officer after the war start, completed training at the Frunze Military Academy, a staff officer of the HQ of various field armies, ended the war as major (in 24!).

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