Ethnic makeup of Soviet Army in 44/45

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Volklin
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Ethnic makeup of Soviet Army in 44/45

Post by Volklin » 01 Jun 2007 19:43

During Barbarossa and the early part of the war a lot of the western Russian soldiers were captured, and as the SU was getting tighter on manpower by the end of the war, i'd assume by then the majority of nationalities in the Soviet army were largely from Asia: Siberians, Tatars, Mongolians, Turkish people etc. I've read about during the last battles there were more Asiatic looking people in their ranks. How much would they have been a part of the army by then do you think?

Gregory Deych
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Post by Gregory Deych » 02 Jun 2007 01:22

About 30%.

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Kunikov
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Re: Ethnic makeup of Soviet Army in 44/45

Post by Kunikov » 02 Jun 2007 03:37

Volklin wrote:During Barbarossa and the early part of the war a lot of the western Russian soldiers were captured, and as the SU was getting tighter on manpower by the end of the war, i'd assume by then the majority of nationalities in the Soviet army were largely from Asia: Siberians, Tatars, Mongolians, Turkish people etc. I've read about during the last battles there were more Asiatic looking people in their ranks. How much would they have been a part of the army by then do you think?
Well, keep in mind that when the Red Army conquered the occupied parts of the Soviet Union they put partisans and those of the population which was under occupation into the Red Army's ranks, so they made up a good portion of the Red Army in the latter years of the war.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 05:19

Privet Kunikov. The Greatest share not slavic the soldier was during winter 1942-1943 I think about 25 percent. Growth of a share of Slavs has begun with 1943. I think a share not slavic the soldier by the end of 1944 there were 15-17 %. Do not forget, the military appeal of many Caucasian people has been limited or forbidden. In the evening I can give more detailed figures.

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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 05:21

Gregory Deych wrote:About 30%.
Your figure is very high. Even in Transcaucasian front such share not Slavs was only in the winter 1942-1943.

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Kunikov
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Post by Kunikov » 02 Jun 2007 05:37

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:Privet Kunikov. The Greatest share not slavic the soldier was during winter 1942-1943 I think about 25 percent. Growth of a share of Slavs has begun with 1943. I think a share not slavic the soldier by the end of 1944 there were 15-17 %. Do not forget, the military appeal of many Caucasian people has been limited or forbidden. In the evening I can give more detailed figures.
That would make sense.

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Post by Volklin » 02 Jun 2007 06:50

How would the middle of the war have a greater proportion of Soviets from Asia? Hmm
Also the acquiring of ranks from conquered territories is understandable, but i read the released prisoners from the 1941 captures were sent off to Siberia to work camps for having surrendered!
Kunikov, if by your post, by the end of the war the army was made up by Asiatics and the conquered areas of Eastern Europe! I remember eading Von Luck's memoirs during the last fighting before capture 45, a Mongol Soviet soldier tried to snatch away his medal but was stopped by a respecting Soviet commander!

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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 07:11

Volklin wrote:How would the middle of the war have a greater proportion of Soviets from Asia? Hmm
Also the acquiring of ranks from conquered territories is understandable, but i read the released prisoners from the 1941 captures were sent off to Siberia to work camps for having surrendered!
Kunikov, if by your post, by the end of the war the army was made up by Asiatics and the conquered areas of Eastern Europe! I remember eading Von Luck's memoirs during the last fighting before capture 45, a Mongol Soviet soldier tried to snatch away his medal but was stopped by a respecting Soviet commander!
I think in Berlin of 1945 quantity "Mongol soldier " in Red Army was no more, than in Wermacht und SS. Moreover, the quantity of Mongols in Red army was some hundreds person. At the best. The soldier from Asia was more. But from Asia there were not only not Slavs, but also Russian, both Jews, and Germans.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 10:13

ThomasG wrote:It would be interesting to know how many raped German women suffered from the social stigma of having a half-Asiatic baby. Children who had Russian fathers were indistinguishable from Germans, though. Unfortunately, the Mongols were probably more inclined to commit savage acts of rape. I think this was especially the case with Muslims who might even consider rapes their religious duty.
You result what that ideological stamps. Respect for the woman - one of prominent features of Islamic outlook. Sometimes the nazi attack to USSR communistic leaders compared to the Mongolian invasion on Russian princedoms in 13 century. There was even a phrase " the fascist of a horde ". It only ideological stamps.

Besides children from mised marriages with Asians in the USSR in 1940th years was a little. Their percent was not much more, than in Russian empire.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 10:26

Some figures.

From the Soviet fronts not Russian was most Transcaucasian, especially its northern group

Here national figures of northern group Transcaucasian front for November, 1st, 1942:

Russian of 43,85 %
Ukrainian 12,67 %
Byelorussians of 1,01 %
Azerbaijanians of 18,67 %
Armenians of 6,41 %
Georgians of 6,43 %
Ossets of 0,5 %
Chechens and Ingushs of 0,05 %
Kabarda and Balkar 0,56 %
Dagestanian 0,68 %
Karachi and Circassians - 0,03 % (all mountaineers of Northern Caucasus - 1,82 %).
Turks of 0,1 %
Kalmyks of 0,11 %
Uzbeks of 2,56 %
Tadjiks of 0,01 %
Kirghiz of 0,03 %
Kazakhs of 0,44 %
Mordvinians and Chuvashs of 0,65 %
Tatar 0,92 %
Jews of 1,43 %

Others of 3,19 %

It to finish or continuation of figures is necessary?

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Re: Ethnic makeup of Soviet Army in 44/45

Post by Art » 02 Jun 2007 11:03

Volklin wrote: i'd assume by then the majority of nationalities in the Soviet army were largely from Asia: Siberians, Tatars, Mongolians, Turkish people etc.
In brief - no. By the way there is no such nationality or group of nationalities as Siberians.

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Post by Art » 02 Jun 2007 11:19

Volklin wrote: Also the acquiring of ranks from conquered territories is understandable, but i read the released prisoners from the 1941 captures were sent off to Siberia to work camps for having surrendered!
Not very much Red Army soldiers captured by Axis forces were liberated till the end of 1944 - something about 300 thousands.Sending them to GULAG is a popular myth, for the most part after filtration they were returned to Red Army ranks, except those who were engaged in collaborationistic activity or were disabled for service. As concerns the civilian population on the territories liberated from occupation, for them the probability to be in the first-line formation was even higher then for the inhabitants of the interior regions of the country due to the widely practiced "troop" conscription - that means that they were conscripted by front-line units instead of organizations of military districts.

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Post by Kunikov » 02 Jun 2007 11:51

Volklin wrote:How would the middle of the war have a greater proportion of Soviets from Asia? Hmm
Also the acquiring of ranks from conquered territories is understandable, but i read the released prisoners from the 1941 captures were sent off to Siberia to work camps for having surrendered!
Kunikov, if by your post, by the end of the war the army was made up by Asiatics and the conquered areas of Eastern Europe! I remember eading Von Luck's memoirs during the last fighting before capture 45, a Mongol Soviet soldier tried to snatch away his medal but was stopped by a respecting Soviet commander!
As Art has pointed out, the idea that captured Soviet soldiers when released were sent to GULag camps is a myth. Some were, no doubt about that, some of them were innocent as well, but the majority were released back into the ranks of the Red Army. Also, the Germans generally confused Uzbeks and other central Asians for 'Mongols.'

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 14:05

Many ethnic divisions (Caucasian, Central Asian) in 1944 basically became slavic. But there were exceptions. For example, 8 Estonian Rifle Corps. Spring of 1944 in it was 79,5 % of Estonians. 82 % from them before war lived in Estonia. In 7 and 249 Rifle divisions the share of Estonians reached 89,5 %.

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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 02 Jun 2007 14:23

One more example. Kunikov, the request to you. Translate, please this table. I have no time.

Не смогу корректно и грамотно перевести.

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