Soviet Armies Suuport Units Order of Battle

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
Esa K
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Location: Sweden

#16

Post by Esa K » 14 Sep 2007, 12:11

Matasso wrote:Do you know these series posted by Konev? They are a mine of info, even if your russian is rudimentary as mine
Think I´m starting to understand that they are a little goldmine of info, even with my very, very, very rudimentary knowledge in the Russian language. So, thanks to Konev for posting theese. Wish I had moore time at the moment to study the files, but, I would be very grateful if someone could point out wich of the files contains info on tank and self propelled gun units...

Best regards

Esa K

Matasso
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infos

#17

Post by Matasso » 14 Sep 2007, 12:32

the ones directly related to tank and SP units are the lists number 6, 7, 14 and 29.

But please take my advice, get them all....

Mat


HenryW
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#18

Post by HenryW » 15 Sep 2007, 02:49

Thanks for putting this treasure trove of info on AHF. I had trouble downloading 21. Anyone else have trouble?

Henry

Art
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#19

Post by Art » 15 Sep 2007, 11:41

Hello, Matasso. the answers to your questions
Matasso wrote: - konno-sanitariye rota - are these horse sanitation or plain veterinary units?
I think, the first. Otherwise it would be called veterinary.
zubotekhnicheskiye laboratori?
Stomatological laboratory.
Stantsii Perelivaniya krovi
Blood transfusion station (point)
Otryad means unit I suppose
Yes, unit or even better detachment.
Banno-dezinfektsioniye Poezda - Bath and desinfection ?? poezda I donùt know
Trains. These are the trains with desinfection equipment.
banno-prachechno - another type of bath unit perhaps?
Prachechnaya means laundry. So it means bath&laundry.
obmuvochno dezinkektsiniye rota - ??? desinfection company?
Yes, something like bath&desinfection company.
The Corps headquarters have a unit with is a Voenno Pokhtovaya Stantsiya?
The military post station.
Do you know these series posted by Konev?
Allready know. BTW the list of units of divisional size or larger was reproduced in the recently published handbook:
http://www.apach.ru/showbook.php?id=3094
Pay attention there could be some inaccuracies. For example the divisions defeated in Belostok-Minsk cauldron are listed as included in the Operational Forces till 19 September 1941, while in fact they ceased to exist allready in June-July. I think the official order to disband these units was issued on this day, because a week later the divisions of Moscow and Leningrad militia received the regular numbers which belonged to these defeated divisions and before that day the newly formed rifle divisions received the "new" numbers (up to 400+) but the old ones remained "empty".

konev
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#20

Post by konev » 15 Sep 2007, 14:49

Art and all,

There are two (2) directives issued during 1941 that readers need to be made aware of.

Although units and formations had been destroyed in combat between June and December 1941, there were still carried (unofficially) on the rolls of active units. These two dates were 19 September 1941 and 27 December 1941.

So if you see a formation with the either of the dates listed above listed as it's last date, more than likely it was destroyed much earlier.

If you want to download the monthly Soviet Army OBs, go to the link below.
http://www.tashv.nm.ru/BoevojSostavSA/1941/

For the other years, just change the "1941" to whatever year your looking for and they will come up.

Also, be warned, except for the Rifle Regiments assigned to the Rifle Divisions, most of the other components of the Rifle Divisions are listed in the other Lists. For example, you can find (at least as far as I have skimmed through), the Artillery Regiments, the Reconnaissance Battalions/Companies, the Engineer Battalions, the Signals Battalions/Companies, Medical Battalions, Signals Battalions/Companies and and Transport Battalions/Companies

konev

konev
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#21

Post by konev » 15 Sep 2007, 15:12

Forgot one thing, there are 4 General Staff Directives (2 files) that show changes to the Lists. One was published in 1996 and the other in 1998.

If I can I will attach them here (darn, I will have to post a link later)

konev

Art
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#22

Post by Art » 15 Sep 2007, 16:20

konev wrote: Although units and formations had been destroyed in combat between June and December 1941, there were still carried (unofficially) on the rolls of active units. These two dates were 19 September 1941 and 27 December 1941.
That is something I expected.
If I can I will attach them here (darn, I will have to post a link later)
It will be appreciated very much.

Matasso
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Location: Paris, France

#23

Post by Matasso » 15 Sep 2007, 18:21

Good info,

Anyway, usually units that were destroyed in combat were officially disbanded much later especially in 1941, sometimes more than 2 months later.... even in 1942 in june, july the same happened, unit was lost at Izyum and listed disbanded later; So new numbers alloted to divisions and regiments depended on the avalability of the number when the division is formed; If an old one is still not officially disbanded then it retains the number it had.

This also happened to every time of unit as much as I have been able to see, right?

As usual I again come with translation info requests....... sorry

Rabot
Uchastok
Doroga - I suppose the last two are some kind of adm headquarters
Mostostroiteliniye
Mostovaya - is this the same in femini as the former or totally diferent?
Remontno
Vosstanoviteliniy

Many Thanks once again
Mat

Matasso
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Location: Paris, France

#24

Post by Matasso » 15 Sep 2007, 18:47

Sorry,
another thing,

In the supply unit depots I often see depot something Zerna. I ran a net translation and found grain.. it is ok for some but for Grain Ammo Depot or trophy grain depot for example doesn't make sense... Is there another sense in this word, which probably i am not aware of.

Many thanks
Mat

Gregory Deych
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#25

Post by Gregory Deych » 17 Sep 2007, 02:37

Matasso wrote:Sorry,
another thing,

In the supply unit depots I often see depot something Zerna. I ran a net translation and found grain.. it is ok for some but for Grain Ammo Depot or trophy grain depot for example doesn't make sense... Is there another sense in this word, which probably i am not aware of.

Many thanks
Mat
Powder grain, most likely.

Gregory Deych
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Location: US

#26

Post by Gregory Deych » 17 Sep 2007, 03:07

Matasso wrote:Good info,
Rabot
Work
Matasso wrote: Uchastok
Site/region/portion
Matasso wrote: Doroga - I suppose the last two are some kind of adm headquarters
Road
Matasso wrote: Mostostroiteliniye
Bridge-building
Matasso wrote: Mostovaya - is this the same in femini as the former or totally diferent?
Bridging
Matasso wrote: Remontno
Repair
Matasso wrote: Vosstanoviteliniy
Rebuilding

Art
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#27

Post by Art » 17 Sep 2007, 13:18

Matasso wrote:In the supply unit depots I often see depot something Zerna. I ran a net translation and found grain.. it is ok for some but for Grain Ammo Depot or trophy grain depot for example doesn't make sense...
Could you give the whole phrase in Russian?

konev
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin

#28

Post by konev » 17 Sep 2007, 22:03

Mat and all,

Why don't you try this document first. Has a lrge chunk of abbreviations.

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/abbr ... litary.doc

konev

Matasso
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Location: Paris, France

Armies Support Units

#29

Post by Matasso » 18 Sep 2007, 10:10

Hi Konev,

You are right, once again, thanks...

It is a very compreensive list, which I think I even already had, but it's never as interesting as asking directly in the forum, makes for more interactivity.... :lol:

Many thanks anyway....

What about the missing books, can you update us a bit on that?

Mat

Art
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#30

Post by Art » 18 Sep 2007, 10:31

Hello, Mat
soldat.ru is returned to life at last. You can find the amendments to the lists, and the very lists here:
http://www.soldat.ru/doc/perechen/

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