Soviet OOBs

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olmi57
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by olmi57 » 27 Apr 2018 21:04

For those interested : I have compiled a quick clickable overview of RKKA (post-1942) Tank Armies, Tank and Mech.Korps,
incl. Markings and Equipment, here :

http://www.o5m6.de/redarmy/units.php?group=all&unit=all

Still a WIP, though...
Oliver.
http://www.o5m6.de
Oliver
Engines of the Red Army
Engines of the Wehrmacht
http://www.o5m6.de

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tramonte
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by tramonte » 01 May 2018 21:34

If Soviet infantry division had had strength from just 5 000 to about 10 000 men in 1944 i guess the infantry brigade might have had strength varying from 2 500 to 5 000. Am i totally wrong? Can anyone give figures of Soviet Marine Brigade personal strength of 1943 or 1944?
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

Sharposhnikov
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Sharposhnikov » 09 Jun 2018 01:11

There were two types of 'marine brigades'.
Naval Rifle Brigades were simply Red Army formations formed using men from the navy. They used the same tables of organization as the regular army Rifle Brigades, which by 1943 - 44 had 4 rifle battalions plus antitank, heavy mortar and light(76mm) artillery supporting battalions and were authorized 5700 - 6000 men each.
Naval Infantry Brigades were formed by the Navy from naval personnel, and more closely represented what we in the west think of as 'marines'. I haven't seen detailed shtat tables for these, but the separate Naval Infantry Battalions they were composed of were big battalions - 1000 men or more, 3 rifle companies, a submachine gun company, mortar and heavy machinegun supporting units. The 'marine' brigades I do have information on seem to have consisted of a varying number of battalions: 12th Naval Infantry Brigade in late 1942 had 7, while 3 - 4 seems to have been more normal.
All of that is the 'authorized' strength, and actual 'field' strength was much different. When a bunch of brigades were disbanded to provide manpower for new units in 1943, the High Command assumed an actual strength of 2000 - 2500 men each.
Some specific figures for 'field strength' that I have for Naval Infantry Brigades and Naval Rifle Brigades:

7th Naval Infantry Brigade in Sevastopol in October 1941 had 5210 men
9th Naval Infantry Brigade at Kerch Naval Base in October 1941 had 4000 men
13th Naval Infantry Brigade - making amphibious assaults on Japanese positions in August 1945 had 5971 men, including some attached units.
12th Naval Infantry Brigade at Kirkenes in April 1942 had 7 battalions, 6065 men
70th Naval Rifle Brigade - made an amphibious landing on the coast of Lake Ladoga in late June 1944 with 3661 men

Hope this helps...

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by FORBIN Yves » 24 Jul 2018 11:28

tramonte wrote:
01 May 2018 21:34
If Soviet infantry division had had strength from just 5 000 to about 10 000 men in 1944 i guess the infantry brigade might have had strength varying from 2 500 to 5 000. Am i totally wrong? Can anyone give figures of Soviet Marine Brigade personal strength of 1943 or 1944?
In theory according TOE a Soviet ID have 9400 men the Guards was in general better but some regulars was also good.
In 1945 they have 4500 - 7500 mens in general 5500 in fact a big Brigade ; in April to attack Koenigsberg IDs of the 3th Belorussian Front have 2500 ! - 4000 men they had received very few replacements, IDs used in Berlin Operation was in better conditions.

No problems for tanks in armored units but infantryman shortage proof 3 Tanks Armies in Berlin and especialy Koniev with long flanks miss infantry.

perrya
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by perrya » 22 Jan 2019 00:48

I am looking for the OB at divisional level for the Russian 12th Army around the time of the Battle for Riga 1917 happened. The corps were 6th and 2nd Siberian, 43, and 21st. It may not exist, but if anyone has it or some of it, respond directly: perrya@jps.net

Eugen Pinak
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Eugen Pinak » 22 Jan 2019 12:46

perrya wrote:
22 Jan 2019 00:48
I am looking for the OB at divisional level for the Russian 12th Army around the time of the Battle for Riga 1917 happened. The corps were 6th and 2nd Siberian, 43, and 21st. It may not exist, but if anyone has it or some of it, respond directly: perrya@jps.net
Such OOB is available here, but in Russian: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0 ... 0%BE%D0%BD

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donwhite
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by donwhite » 27 Aug 2019 01:44

In belatedly reading an older Blog/forum (https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/201 ... e-soviets/), there is mention of "Boyevoy Sostav Obshchevoyskovykh Armiy" – Combat Strength of the Combined Armies, which apparently expands upon BSSA by detailing data for three dates per month (1st, 10th & 20th) over the period 1941-45. Also the blogger mentions 'Perechins' (lists) of operation combat units over the same period with the latter apparently available in digital format on line (https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/201 ... ntinued-1/). Can anyone enlighten me as to whether this is indeed the case and also where one might get access to the former. Any suggestions/pointers much appreciated.

Cheers

Dann Falk
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Dann Falk » 27 Aug 2019 03:19

BSA Date is real, but you must find and buy it online. I don't know about the Perechins list.

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Jeff Leach
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Jeff Leach » 27 Aug 2019 10:01

Perechen

BSA are available (I have them) through a Russian researcher AMVAS. If you have money, his efforts really deserve to be to be supported. These are really not as important after Pamyat-Naroda opened. I would suggest looking at the war diary or operational reports of the unit you are interested in first.

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donwhite
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by donwhite » 27 Aug 2019 10:40

Many thanks Gents.

Cheers

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donwhite
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by donwhite » 29 Aug 2019 00:52

Following up an initial enquiry about "Bovevoy Sostav Obshchevoyskovykh Armiy" (Comat Strength of the Combined Armies) with a vendor that specialises in 'eastern' publications, does anyone know the date of publication date and/or publisher for the aforementioned multi-volume set?

Cheers

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Jeff Leach
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Jeff Leach » 29 Aug 2019 07:04

My volumes say (don't have or know if there is a 1945 volume):

*I believe they were only published for internal use by the Soviet Ministry of Defence.

Бевой состав общевойсковых армий за 1941 год - книга 1-я. Военно-исторический отдел венно-научного управления генерального штаба. 1957 (195 pages)

книга 2-я. 1957. (197 pages)

Общевойсковые Армии и их боевой состав за 1942 год в Великой Отечестванкой войне, Часть 1-я. Боенно-Историческое Управление Генерального штаба Вооруженных Сил СССР, 6 отдел. 1953. (183 pages)

Часть 2-я. 1953. (179 pages)
Часть 3-я. 1953. (283 pages)
Часть 4-я. 1953. (232 pages)

Общевойсковые Армии и их боевой состав за 1943 год в Великой Отечестванкой войне, Часть 1-я. Боенно-Историческое Управление Генерального штаба Вооруженных Сил СССР, 6 отдел. 1956?. (182 pages)

Часть 2-я. 1956?. (179 pages)
Часть 3-я. 1956?. (211 pages)
Часть 4-я. 1956?. (173 pages)
Часть 5-я. 1956?. (183 pages)
Часть 5-я. 1956?. (258 pages)

Общевойсковые Армии Советских Вооруженных сил в великой отечественной войне за 1944 год. Военно-историческое управление главного военно-научного управления генерального шаба ВС СССР. 7 отдел. Часть 1-я. 1950?. (290 pages)

Часть 2-я. 1950?. (258 pages)

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donwhite
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by donwhite » 29 Aug 2019 07:57

Many thanks Jeff, much appreciated.

Cheers

Dann Falk
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by Dann Falk » 29 Aug 2019 18:15

Yes, BSA Data also covers 1945, Part 1, 2, 3, 4

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donwhite
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Re: Soviet OOBs

Post by donwhite » 26 Sep 2019 02:12

I'm having some fun making sense of some designated units under the 70th Army/13.01.1945 on page 65: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=150902249. They are '222 заи.стр.полка' (rear shelf?-no idea), 7 пмпм (motorised pontoon bridge regiment?) 28 separate chemical battalion? The latter two are my own attempts at translating with an abbreviations key (several). I think I have the 22 & 24 всо correctly identified as 'Military Construction Detachments'. Any suggestions much appreciated.

Cheers

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