Did Red Army contribute to the victory in WW2?

[Art]

Without US supply of over 400,000 motor vehicles, it was hard for Russian to move forward to the Reich.

Interesting , what kind of motor vehicles and could you give us a source ?

The automobile directorate of the Soviet Army reported 312 thousands imported automobiles accepted till May 1945. I uploaded a translation with detailed breakdown by type and year here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... automobile
The same tables in Russian:
http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/AutoS ... oSnab.html

[Chinaski1917]

How much did they pay for them ?

[antfreire]

How much did they pay for them ?

They have not made the first payment yet.

[Chinaski1917]

Good for them ! They "paid" with 20 million lives. The americans wanted to make money out of that too ?

[antfreire]

Since the war in Soviet Union started the Russians have been claiming that they did everything to defeat the nazis and the rest of the fighting nations were just sitting and watching. The reality is that besides the thouzands and airplanes, trucks, trains, etc. that were deliverd to the Soviets and that they were so concern about it that even in the war documentary they made sure that those equipments were not shown, there were thouzands of tons of canned food that fed the russian soldiers from Moscow to Berlin and millions of gallons of gasoline that helped their trucks and planes in that endeavor. But the biggest fault of the russians has not been to denie this, but the way they have covered the almost two years of loyal cooperation with the Nazis in order to have Britain defeated. The Soviet Union was the biggest supplier of raw material to Germany during 1940 and first six months of 1941 and this was stopped only when Hitler attacked them. So I believe that the russians should look back and realize that they were not as perfect as their history claims them to be.

[Chinaski1917]

The russians fought and bled 10 times more than the americans did who shut home and made films in Hollywood. And are stealing bragging about D-day.

Before the Molotov-Ribentrop pact there was the help that UK provided to Germany.

The world humanity has nothing to demand for the Soviet part in defeating the Nazis. Its the other way round.

If you want numbers to prove it (im not talking about machinery that the US tried to sell) I'll prove it. I'm talking about numbers of HUMAN LIVES.

[antfreire]

The russians fought and bled 10 times more than the americans did who shut home and made films in Hollywood. And are stealing bragging about D-day.

They had no choice, they were forced to fight in their own territory


Before the Molotov-Ribentrop pact there was the help that UK provided to Germany.

Can you name what and when?

The world humanity has nothing to demand for the Soviet part in defeating the Nazis. Its the other way round.

The world humanity has a lot to demand for the Soviets. They did defeat the Nazis, but did not liberate any country. They just changed tirannies
If you want numbers to prove it (im not talking about machinery that the US tried to sell) I'll prove it. I'm talking about numbers of HUMAN LIVES.

Are you or anyone willing to separate the russians killed by the Nazis to the russians killed by the Stalin cleansings?

[Chinaski1917]

Are you or anyone willing to separate the russians killed by the Nazis to those killed by the British and American imperialism ?

p.s. I dont get what you are saying. I'm not in favour of any Stalin cleansings but that's not the topic here. Yes Nazi crimes were different from those of Stalin as both were different from the Imperial ones.

[Chinaski1917]

Before the Molotov-Ribentrop pact there was the help that UK provided to Germany.

Can you name what and when?

It was called Munich Pact. !



Either one likes it or not the Nazi graveyard was trenched in the Soviet Union not in Greece not in USA or the UK. World humanity owes a lot to the state of S.Union for its sacrifice that contained the BLOODIEST battles in human history.

[Art]

The four-wheeled-drive US trucks are widely thought to have been key to mechanizing Soviet infantry during the second part of WWII. Although pictures of Soviet infantry clinging to the back of T-34s are common, most Soviet infantry were really carried in trucks.

Actually Soviet infantry normaly moved on foot as well as e.g. American, unless aditional truck units were attached, which were in case of Soviet Army wasn't a typical occurence. In a general the late-war rifle division had some 100-150 automobiles of all types, which was too few to call it mechanized. By a contrast non-divisional artillery units were fully motories. The men/motor vehicles ratio in infantry was far worse than in the Soviet Army in general. This translation of an original strength report can give some idea how distribution of motor vehicles looked like (in 1945 it wasn't very different):
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6#p1467766

[Art]

The Soviet Union was the biggest supplier of raw material to Germany during 1940 and first six months of 1941 and this was stopped only when Hitler attacked them.

That is a pretty dubious statement. According to Sipols in the period of interest SU was the fifth largest importer to Germany (in valiue terms) after Italy, Denmark, Romania and Netherlands. The value of import and percentage of the total German import can be found here:
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/pr ... _36_1_2425
It doesn't seem likely that if one takes raw material import only it would transform 7,6% into something more impressive.
There is a more philosophical question here, namely: why should the SU break trade realtions with Germany with which it wasn't in the state of war, while the most of other neutrals didn't? From what I know, no satisfactory answer was given.

[Chinaski1917]

Better not mess with Art he is a mobile encyclopedia

[LWD]

When two countries agree to spit up a third between them "neutral" is perhaps not the best term. I think that is the point some are trying to raise. There's also the matter of whether or not Hitler would have attacked Poland without the agreement with the USSR. The implication here is that the USSR thus deserves some of the blame for starting the war in the first place.

[LWD]

The russians fought and bled 10 times more than the americans did who shut home and made films in Hollywood.

Hard to measure relative amount of fighting. Certainly the Soviets lost a lot more troops than the US did. I'm not sure what percentage of them were Russian so I don't know that it was 10 times more. In any case that is in part due to Soviet tactics.

And are stealing bragging about D-day.

What's your complaint here. The US was clearly the biggest contributer to D-Day although one shouldn't forget the contribution of the British, French, Canandians, Poles, and others to that event. Futrhermore the Normandy invasion was a rather remarkable operation in many ways.

Before the Molotov-Ribentrop pact there was the help that UK provided to Germany.

So indeed did others but they didn't agree to split up another sovereign country by means of military conquest now did they?

The world humanity has nothing to demand for the Soviet part in defeating the Nazis. Its the other way round.

????

If you want numbers to prove it (im not talking about machinery that the US tried to sell) I'll prove it. I'm talking about numbers of HUMAN LIVES.

Which were in part due to Soviet choices both in the areas of defence and tactics. It's not our fault if they made mistakes now is it? While honor is due to the soldiers who paid the price of those mistakes it doesn't necessarily acrue to the powers that made them.

[antfreire]

The Soviet Union was the biggest supplier of raw material to Germany during 1940 and first six months of 1941 and this was stopped only when Hitler attacked them.

That is a pretty dubious statement. According to Sipols in the period of interest SU was the fifth largest importer to Germany (in valiue terms) after Italy, Denmark, Romania and Netherlands. The value of import and percentage of the total German import can be found here:
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/pr ... _36_1_2425
It doesn't seem likely that if one takes raw material import only it would transform 7,6% into something more impressive.
There is a more philosophical question here, namely: why should the SU broke trade realtions with Germany with which it wasn't in the state of war, while the most of other neutrals didn't? From what I know, no satisfactory answer was given.

You are trying to cover the sun with your thump.