Rifle Division 04/550

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Der Alte Fritz
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Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 13 Jan 2013 17:20

I have been reading Red Army Handbook by Zaloga and find it very frustrating that he does not give the table of men weapons and vehicles for the main late war unit 4/550. Issued December 1942.
Can anyone supply it please and other late war ones

Gary Kennedy
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Gary Kennedy » 13 Jan 2013 19:00

You know I'd never noticed that he skips that summary.

You can try reverse engineering using the Divisional evolution figures in table 1.12, and deduct the details for the Inf Reg given at 1.9 and the Arty Regt at 1.10, then remove the deleted units (AA and MG Bns). There are personnel totals for the Sig Bn in the text. Later developments appear to be simple deductions from existing units, but he does give the details for the new Atk Bn of Dec43.

I'd recommend a spreadsheet and a cuppa, speaking from experience :)

If anyone does know where to get hold of copies of actual Red Army organisational tables, I'd love to know myself, despite the fact I couldn't translate a single word in them!

Gary

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 13 Jan 2013 19:42

Well since it is the main regulations used from Dec 42 with only slight change until the end of the war it is in many ways the most important of all. Will wait and see if one is posted.
There is a summary here
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/ ... staff1.htm

Would be nice to see the 05/40 December 44 one as well

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Paul_Atreides » 15 Jan 2013 01:52

Ordinary rifle division

Image

Guards rifle division

Image
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of the German Army in World Wars)

Leo Niehorster
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Leo Niehorster » 15 Jan 2013 09:32

Many thanks for these diagrams. Are there also tables for these divisions?
Leo

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Gary Kennedy » 15 Jan 2013 21:10

Second the thanks, that'll keep me busy for a bit...

Can I just ask, the oval symbol above certain units, does the figure inside refer to the radio allocation for that unit? If so, what does the normal circle represent, some with a number inisde, some with letters, some a mixture?

There do look to be a few differences with the table in the Red Army Handbook, for the Rifle Bn at least in the late 1942 Inf Regt, nothing major but a few oddities.

Cheers,

Gary

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 15 Jan 2013 21:59

Thank you Paul.
Am busy converting the Red Army Handbook into a spreadsheet and will post this when done.
Gary if you are translating Paul's diagrams, could you post them here as well.
cheers

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Piet Duits » 15 Jan 2013 23:46

From German sources (Stand Sommer 1944)

04/550-563
Div.Stab 117 men (04/550)
Stabszug d. Arko 38 men (04/563)

Regiment 1-3: 2443 men (04/551)
Art.Rgt.: 918 men (04/552)
Lehr-Kp.: 100 men (04/553)
Pak Abt.: 200 men (04/554)
Aufkl.Kp.: 74 men (04/555)
Pi.Btl.: 164 men (04/556)
Nachr.Kp.: 130 men (04/557)
Gasabw.Kp.: 40 men (04/558)
Kraftfahr-Kp.: 80 men (04/559)
Feld-Bäckerei: 63 men (04/560)
San.Btl.: 90 men (04/561)
Pferdelazarett: 11 men (04/562)

494 LMG
111 sMG
2110 MP (used to be 1450, but by HQ order from 22.5.1943 it was brought up to 2110 MP)
212 Pz.Büchs.
56 Gr.W. (50 mm)
83 Gr.W. (82 mm)
21 Gr.W. (120 mm)
12 Inf.Gesch. (76 mm)
20 Feldgesch. (76 mm)
12 Haub. (122 mm)
48 Pak (45 mm)

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 16 Jan 2013 16:21

OK here is the 4/300 series table from Red Army Handbook.
Please note that the original has some errors in it. The Machine Gun Battalion has "three companies" and this should read "three companies each" as the Battalion has 27 MG and not the 9 given in the table.
The Field Artillery Regiment has two full Battalions and a "reduced Battalion" ( see note *** in the book) and to make this clearer I have separated these out into individual listings and reduced the complements accordingly.
Also I have included individual sub totals for each Regt/Bn so that it is easy to see the size of the respective units.

Next I will reconstruct the 04/550 table using this and compare it to the information posted on this post.

cheers
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 16 Jan 2013 17:28

Another point to note is that none of the total figures in my table match the figures given in the table 1.12 column 28-July-1942 which they should do. For instance Personnel total is 10,386 whereas in the table it is 8,756 .

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William Russ
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby William Russ » 17 Jan 2013 18:10

Hi All,
To further muddy the waters, I'm posting the actual chart that Piet got his numbers from (I think). What's confusing is the chart says it is for December 10, 1942 but it was obviously updated till the winter of 1943/1944. Hence the 04/550 - 563 updates. Anyway, I hope this helps Ol' Fritz :) .

all the best, Bill
6467791.jpg
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 18 Jan 2013 08:59

Here is the constructed 04/550 table which starts from the 04/300 Divisional Table and then adds in the 04/551 new style Regiment and the 04/552 Field Artillery Regiment and adds or deletes the items from the text of the book Red Army Handbook. This has then been checked against the summary table 1.12 to ensure accuracy. This comes out pretty close with the exception of AT Rifles which are very short and I have no idea where the extra ones are.

Soviet Rifle Divisions Tables of Organisation 04-550 Dec 1942.pdf


Apologies to anyone who downloaded the 04/300 able as this has not been checked yet and may need a tweek here and there. I will try and get it reloaded today sometime.

Once the 04/550 table hs been confirmed it should be failry straight foward to do the 04/500 Guards Rifle Division one. :milwink:
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 18 Jan 2013 18:57

Revised 04/300 with the comparison made with the Table 1.12 and corrections made.

Soviet Rifle Divisions Tables of Organisation.pdf
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 20 Jan 2013 08:43

Gary Kennedy wrote:Second the thanks, that'll keep me busy for a bit...

Can I just ask, the oval symbol above certain units, does the figure inside refer to the radio allocation for that unit? If so, what does the normal circle represent, some with a number inisde, some with letters, some a mixture?

There do look to be a few differences with the table in the Red Army Handbook, for the Rifle Bn at least in the late 1942 Inf Regt, nothing major but a few oddities.

Cheers,

Gary


Have you managed to translate this yet, as I am hving difficulty as it does not seem to match my list of Russian terms. Help would be appreciated. What do the various shaped boxes represent?

Have completed the 04/500 GRD table according to Red Army Handbook but this is even more vague than the Rifle Division so would like to check it against Paul's diagram before posting.

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Art » 20 Jan 2013 15:14

Der Alte Fritz wrote:Have you managed to translate this yet, as I am hving difficulty as it does not seem to match my list of Russian terms. Help would be appreciated.

Scheme for 04/550 division (without rifle regiments):
- Divisional commander

- Deputy divisional commander

- Staff (20) with subordinated
- - Recon company (80)
- - Signals company (155)
- - Commandant platoon (14)
- - Musical platoon (13)

- Political deputy commander with
- - Political department (9)

- NKVD special department with
- - Rifle Platoon (18)

- Military prosecutor’s office (2)

- Military tribunal (2)

- Divisional engineer with subordinated
- - Sapper battalion (166):
- - - Two companies (74 each) and supply section (3)

- Chief of chemical service with subordinated
- - Chemical defense company (35)

- Deputy divisional commander for rear services with
- - Rear services department (12) and subordinated
- - - Field bakery (55)
- - - State Bank field office
- - - Field post station
- - - Divisional doctor with subordinated
- - - - Medical battalion (91)
- - - Divisional veterinary doctor with subordinated
- - - - Veterinary hospital (9)
- - Automobile transport company (12?)

- Deputy divisional commander for artillery with subordinated
- - Staff (3)
- - Artillery supply service (4)

- - Artillery regiment (927):
- - - Regiment staff (8)
- - - Staff battery (54)
- - - Party&political section (2)
- - - Senior veterinary doctor with
- - - - Veterinary hospital (4)
- - - - Senior doctor with
- - - - Field medical post (7)
- - - Supply service (8) with
- - - - Transport platoon (20)
- - - - “A” workshop (4)
- - - - Clothing and train workshop
- - - - Ordnance workshop (8)
- - - Two artillery battalions (295):
- - - - Staff (3) with
- - - - - Scout section (4)
- - - - - Topo&calculation platoon (12)
- - - - - Signals platoon (23)
- - - - Ammunition platoon (28)
- - - - Supply section (1*)
- - - - Cannon battery (69):
- - - - - HQ platoon (17)
- - - - - gun platoon (23)
- - - - - gun platoon (24)
- - - - Cannon battery (the same as above)
- - - - Howitzer battery (70):
- - - - - HQ platoon (17)
- - - - - Two gun platoons (24)
- - - Artillery battalion (213):
- - - - Staff (3) with
- - - - - Scout section (4)
- - - - - Topo&calculation platoon (9)
- - - - - Signals platoon (20)
- - - - Ammunition platoon (23)
- - - - Supply section (9)
- - - - Cannon battery (69)
- - - - Howitzer battery (70)

- - Anti-tank battalion (208):
- - - Three batteries (30):
- - - - Two gun platoons (13 men)
- - - AT Rifle company (93):
- - - - Four platoons (22)

- Training company (100)

in parentheses - numbers of men, highlighted with bold - parts of divisional HQ, highlighted with blue color - units attached from other commissariats.


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