Rifle Division 04/550

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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Leo Niehorster » 03 Dec 2015 12:22

DAF, in the Shtat diagram you reference, the lines between the various units/headquarters indicate command relationships, not service ones. In all Shat, the notes at the end of the organization text (Part 2: Штат) showed any relevant information, such as service (administration, mess and supply, and in some cases, transportation) that is to be provided by another unit. In any event, the Rifle Division Headquarters' "Rear Department" has no organs capable of providing any kind of service, except — possibly — administration.

The state bank and the post office were part of, but not counted in, the division headquarters, so they would also be serviced by the signal battalion, as stated in the Division Headquarters Shtat.
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 03 Dec 2015 13:21

But the Rear Department is based in the Rear HQ of the division not at the Combat HQ where the signals battalion and its mess are. Do not have shtat to hand, does it specify the signals company,?

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Gary Kennedy » 03 Dec 2015 15:04

From 04/550 and online translation;

"примечание. управление дивизии всеми видами довольствия обеспечивается ротой связи.

note. management division with all types of communication provided by a company."

If you unmangle that you can get 'management (ie admin) of Div HQ is provided by Signals Coy'.

On 04/557 the notes says;

"примечание. 3 легковых 2 грузовых автомашины и 6 верховых лошадей предназначены для обеспечивается управления дивизии.

note. 3 cars and 2 trucks, 6 riding horses are provided for control of the division."

The cars and trucks mentioned look to be in the Admin Pl of the Sigs Coy, which also undertook messing, and I can't see any cooks in Div HQ, so it seems the Sigs Coy Admin Pl served HQ in that respect. Of course someone has crossed out the single Private cook in the Sigs Coy, which leaves the Sgt cook with a big job on...

Gary

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Gary Kennedy » 03 Dec 2015 15:06

Der Alte Fritz wrote:HI Gary
works for me on all the 04/550 documents, other than the usual cannot get past page 10. But we have solved that. Is there something you want me to download and send to you? If so send me a PM or email.
cheers
DAF


Thanks for the offer DAF, I think I've now mined everything I wanted to. Just with no access for that long I wondered if there'd been some restrictions put in place, but it's probably that the bloke who knew how to fix it was having a long weekend!

Gary

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 03 Dec 2015 17:04

Gary
That is a terrible translator. With Windows 10 you now get the Translator app or browser plug in which gives you this translation of the same text:

"примечание. управление дивизии всеми видами довольствия обеспечивается ротой связи."
Note: The Office Division all allowances is provided by the company communications.

What it lacks is a Cyrillic keyboard but if you use Abbyy Screen Reader then you do not need one (and it is only £10).

Yes I see this about the mess but that does mean that the Divisional Headquarters would need to be all in one place - if they wanted to get fed that is. Where as I understood that the rear support elements were some distance to the rear of the division.

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 07 Dec 2015 13:18

what does "Автокухонь прицепок " mean - Field Kitchen trailer for motor vehicles?

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Leo Niehorster » 07 Dec 2015 13:20

That's my make on it, too.
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 07 Dec 2015 13:59

KC-41
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KC-42
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Gary Kennedy » 07 Dec 2015 18:09

So now we have the full details of the authorised strength of all units of the December 1942 04/550 series Rifle Division, my mind has turned to how these were amended over the next few years.

Art noted way back in this thread that at all Deputy Company and Platoon Commanders, and the associated Deputy Commanders for political instruction, were ordered deleted. That affects pretty much every unit in the Division. I’ve found a few summary tables wading through the archives, some of which are quite detailed, others less so. This is what I’ve got for the moment;

04/550 Divisional Headquarters; possibly added a new staff officer position?

04/551 Rifle Regiment; deleted 22 Deputy Coy Cmdrs and 23 Coy/Pl level Political officers. Added 2 new officer posts, one each to HQ Staff and Supply Staff? Compensated for the reduction of political officers by adding a new billet for 2 per Rifle Battalion under the HQ, so 6 in total. Added a new NCO post of CW instructor to each Rifle Battalion HQ and to each Regtl level Bty (76-mm Inf gun, 45-mm Atk gun and 120-mm mortar Btys), so 6 in total. That at least reconciles the drop from 2474 to 2443 for the Rifle Regt.

04/552 Artillery Regiment; deleted 9 Deputy Bty Cmdrs and 9 Bty political officers. Added 2 political officers to each Arty Bn, 6 overall. Added 1 CW NCO to each firing Bty, 8 overall. That takes 927 down to 923, but I’ve also seen 922 for the Arty Regt in some summaries (not much difference I know), so perhaps the third Arty Bn only had one political officer?

04/553 Infantry Training Company; deleted Deputy Coy Cmdr and Political officer to take 100 down to 98.

04/554 Anti-tank Battalion; deleted 4 Deputy Bty Cmdrs and 4 Bty political officers. Added 1 political officer under Bn HQ? Added 1 CW NCO to each Gun Bty, 3 overall. That takes 208 down to 204 for a Bn with 45-mm guns.

04/555 Reconnaissance Company; deleted Deputy Coy Cmdr and Political officer to take 80 to 78.

04/556 Engineer Battalion; deleted 2 Deputy Coy Cmdrs and 2 Political officers, then added 1 political officer under Bn HQ? That takes 166 down to 163.

04/557 Signal Company; deleted Deputy Coy Cmdr and Political officer to take 155 down to 153.

04/558 Chemical Warfare Company; deleted Political officer (no other Deputy Coy Cmdr) to take 35 to 34.

04/559 Transport Company; deleted Deputy Coy Cmdr and Political officer and also one of the two warrant officer posts, to take 72 down to 69?

04/560 Field Bakery; deleted Political officer (no other Deputy Coy Cmdr) to take 55 to 54. I also found a note that says 2 wagon driver (with 2 wagons and 4 horses) were replaced by 1 driver with lorry, which makes 53.

04/561 Medical Battalion; deleted 1 Political officer to take 91 down to 90.

04/562 Veterinary unit; no changes (yippe!)

Overall that takes 9435 down by 116 to 9319. There is mention of a July 1943 strength for the Rifle Division (in the Red Army Handbook but also noted on a few Russian websites) of 9380. That requires some additions and the only one I know for certain was the HQ Platoon for the Div Arty Cmdr, of 38 men (04/563). If I add in the possible attachments of a Workshop (04/215) with 11 men, Post Office (014/96B) with 9 men and the Bank (04/16) with 3 men that does get to 9380. That could just be a coincidence of course.

Nagging thoughts are;

1. Divisional HQ is shown as close to 140 men in some summaries, which is quite an increase on 115 + 1 civilian. Anyone seen anything that might explain the extra posts?

2. Red Army Handbook details a revised Signal Battalion (04/548) of 143 all ranks (so actually smaller that the Company!). I can’t find anything in the archives on this number for a signal unit. Some summaries I’ve seen do show a strength of around 144 for the Sig Coy, but don’t indicate a new shtat ref. It might simply be that parts of the Sig Coy were routinely assigned to Div HQ, and so whoever did the summary reflected this?

Any thoughts welcomed.

Gary

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Eugen Pinak » 07 Dec 2015 22:10

Here is some comparison of original December 1942 Shtat 04/550 and November 1943 Shtat 04/550.
Divisional HQ: + 4(5) off., + 1 NCO
Rifle Regiment: -37 off., + 6 NCO
Arty Regiment: -12 off., +8 NCO
Training rifle Coy: - 2 off
ATG Bn: -7 off., +3 NCO
Recon Coy: -2 off.
Engineer Bn: -3 off.
Signal Company (in both cases): -2 off.
Chemical defence Coy: - 1 off.
Transport Coy: -3 off.
Bakery: -1 off, -1 soldier
Medical Bn: - 1 off.
Veterinary infirmary: no changes
+Added by November 1943:
Arty Commander's HQ Platoon: 1 off., 6 NCO, 31 soldiers
Workshop: 1 NCO, 10 soldiers
Post office: 3 off., 2 NCO, 4 soldiers
November 1943 division total: 809 officers, 2500 NCO, 6073 soldiers = 9382 military + 1 civilian

1. Divisional HQ is shown as close to 140 men in some summaries, which is quite an increase on 115 + 1 civilian. Anyone seen anything that might explain the extra posts?


SD/"SMERSH" cell and State Bank office were not included in HQ total - maybe extra men are reflecting those numbers.

2. Red Army Handbook details a revised Signal Battalion (04/548) of 143 all ranks (so actually smaller that the Company!). I can’t find anything in the archives on this number for a signal unit. Some summaries I’ve seen do show a strength of around 144 for the Sig Coy, but don’t indicate a new shtat ref. It might simply be that parts of the Sig Coy were routinely assigned to Div HQ, and so whoever did the summary reflected this?


Signal company was indeed replaced in Rifle Divisions by Signal Bn from November 1944. Unfortunately, I was unable to find its' Shtat number or TOE strength.
Also note, that I've found number 143 men in reduced rifle division, so full TOE could be larger.

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 09 Dec 2015 17:50

Morses Apparatus (ie. for use with telegraph equipment not radio)

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Rifle Division 04/200

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 14 Dec 2015 13:15

Spreadsheets of the shtat are now available over at http://www.rkka.ru/iorg.htm

Стрелковая дивизия штат от 18.03.1942
Общая схема организации - новое
04/200 Управление стрелковой дивизии - новое
04/201 Стрелковый полк сд - новое
04/202 Артиллерийский полк сд - новое
04/203 Отд. зенитная артиллерийская батарея сд - новое
04/204 Отд. 120-мм минометный дивизион сд - новое
04/205 Отд. мото-стрелковая разведывательная рота сд - новое
04/206 Отд. саперный батальон сд - новое
04/207 Отд. батальон связи сд - новое
04/209 Отд. авторота подвоза сд - новое
04/210 Отд. медико-санитарный батальон сд - новое
04/211 Полевая хлебопекарня сд - новое
04/212 Ветеринарный лазарет сд - новое
04/213 Штабная батарея начальника артиллерии сд - новое
04/767 Отд. противотанковый дивизион сд - новое
04/768 Отд. учебный стрелковый батальон сд

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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Leo Niehorster » 14 Dec 2015 13:28

Still missing the Shtat for the Chemical Company and the Training Battalion. :(
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 14 Dec 2015 16:15

I have finished a spreadsheet of 04/500 December 1942 laid out as per the shtat. For most units I have counted up items such as compasses, swords, etc as best I can make out given that some pages are covered in written amendments. I am happy to send anyone the original spreadsheet for them to work on, just PM me.

Rifle Division 04-550 Dec 1942.pdf
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Re: Rifle Division 04/550

Postby Der Alte Fritz » 14 Dec 2015 16:38

Following on from this is the distribution of Field Kitchens, Motor Towed, Horse Drawn Infantry/Artillery or Horse Drawn Cavalry:
(see the Red Army Horse Drawn vehicle thread for the difference http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=219053

Each Rifle Regt: 10 Infantry and 5 Cavalry for 2474 men
Artillery Regt: 8 Motor Towed for 927 men
Signals Company: 1 Motor Towed (serves front headquarters units)
Sapper Battalion: 1 Infantry
AT Gun Battalion: 1 Motor Towed
Motor Transport Company: 1 Motor Towed
Medical Battalion: 2 Motor Towed

But behind the Rifle Division, there is a broad area of rear area units with a second Headquarters of the Rear 6 to 9 miles behind the front for the Depuyu Divisional Commander of the Rear.
Soviet Rifle Division Rear Areas.jpg


These are serviced by the 2 Field Kitchens at the hospital (staff of 91 and 30 patients) and the Field Kitchen of the Motor Transport Company.
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