Ok I am stuck with this one. Starting with the Russian site: http://www.tankfront.ru/ussr/organisati ... 42-09.html
and using the Red Army Handbook and Charles Sharps various books, I have got as far as this. But I cannot work out the lower level unit manpower, weapons and structure and cannot find details of things like the supply units number of trucks,etc.
I plan to follow this up with Mechanised Brigade 10/420 and the two Tank Brigade ones as well. So not a good start!
Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
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Der Alte Fritz
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
- Shtat 10/370-380
- Tank Regt breakdown
- Motor Rifle Battalion breakdown
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Jeff Leach
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Here is a list of Soviet shtat number that might help you find the specific shtat number you are looking for. The one causing the trouble is 010/373 - мотострелковый батальон (мотострелковой бригады штата № 010/370). If no one knows the answer to your question it might be in this document: ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441, which looks pretty interesting if anyone can post it.
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Gary Kennedy
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Are you looking at the Motorised Rifle Bn referred to under the heading Return of the Corps in the Red Army Handbook? If so, the Bn structure is detailed to some extent in the text, but there are some contradictions with table 2.9.
Roughly speaking it lists a Bn HQ, which no doubt meant a Sigs Pl as well, three Rifle Coys, an Atk Rifle Coy, Atk Gun Coy/Bty, a Mrtr Pl/Coy, an SMG Pl and a Pio Pl. There's no clue as to the subunit allocation. The text does say that each Rifle Coy had three Pls, each of four Squads, plus a Coy level MG Pl. Table 2.9 shows only 12 atk rifles, while the text refers to 18, so take your pick really.
That would indicate to me 4 LMGs per Pl, making 12 per Coy and 36 for the Bn, plus two MGs per Coy (6 Bn), 18 Atk rifles in the Atk Rifle Coy (which would be three Pls of 6 each), then four 45-mm atk guns and six 82-mm mortars in their respective Coys/Btys.
Zaloga/Ness give the Bn as 641 all ranks as of Apr 1942 and note an MG Coy of nine weapons was added from circa Jul 1942, which might account for your higher strength of 707. As revealed by my other posts, I've got sod all to work from so don't know if you're going from more detailed or original sources.
Gary
Roughly speaking it lists a Bn HQ, which no doubt meant a Sigs Pl as well, three Rifle Coys, an Atk Rifle Coy, Atk Gun Coy/Bty, a Mrtr Pl/Coy, an SMG Pl and a Pio Pl. There's no clue as to the subunit allocation. The text does say that each Rifle Coy had three Pls, each of four Squads, plus a Coy level MG Pl. Table 2.9 shows only 12 atk rifles, while the text refers to 18, so take your pick really.
That would indicate to me 4 LMGs per Pl, making 12 per Coy and 36 for the Bn, plus two MGs per Coy (6 Bn), 18 Atk rifles in the Atk Rifle Coy (which would be three Pls of 6 each), then four 45-mm atk guns and six 82-mm mortars in their respective Coys/Btys.
Zaloga/Ness give the Bn as 641 all ranks as of Apr 1942 and note an MG Coy of nine weapons was added from circa Jul 1942, which might account for your higher strength of 707. As revealed by my other posts, I've got sod all to work from so don't know if you're going from more detailed or original sources.
Gary
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Gary
No is the answer. I am looking at the MECHANISED RIFLE BATTALION for a MECHANISED BDE as out lined in Table 2.17 of the Red Army Handbook. This is a similar but different organisation from the MOTORISED RIFLE BATTALION for a TANK CORPS as described in Table 2.9. and they have different personnel totals.
Moreover, Zaloga states later in the Mech Corps section that the Feb 1943 10/420-432 "The motorised infantry battalion (he means Mech Rifle Bn) was not significanly changed (from the shtat 10/370-380 one ) although the number of Officers and NCOs was reduced."
Yet the sources that I an find for small unit structure (which all relate to 10/420-432) all refer to a 3 Company, 3 Platoon, 3 Section structure. See various books by Charles Sharp or http://www.miniatures.de/toe-1943-sovie ... mpany.html. A Platoon is 30 men (3 sections of 9 plus 3 at HQ) and a company is 115 (30 x 3 plus 18 for the MG company plus an HQ of 7) and this is borne out in the descriptions of the organisation in the book "Tank Rider" of exactly this unit. I agree adding a fourth section clears up the LMG question but then poses a bigger one by increasing the number of men (9 extra sections of 9 men) by 81.
I have downloaded the shtat for 10/370-380 (April 42) and 10/370-380 (Sept 42) from the Tankfront.ru website,
I have the basic information on the 10/420-432 one from the Red Army Handbook
but would like to get the shtat 10/420-432 from Russia if I can and now also the 010/373 - мотострелковый батальон (мотострелковой бригады штата № 010/370) for the Battalion structure of the Sept 42.
If someone can supply these then I can nail down the discrepancies in Zaloga.
No is the answer. I am looking at the MECHANISED RIFLE BATTALION for a MECHANISED BDE as out lined in Table 2.17 of the Red Army Handbook. This is a similar but different organisation from the MOTORISED RIFLE BATTALION for a TANK CORPS as described in Table 2.9. and they have different personnel totals.
Moreover, Zaloga states later in the Mech Corps section that the Feb 1943 10/420-432 "The motorised infantry battalion (he means Mech Rifle Bn) was not significanly changed (from the shtat 10/370-380 one ) although the number of Officers and NCOs was reduced."
Yet the sources that I an find for small unit structure (which all relate to 10/420-432) all refer to a 3 Company, 3 Platoon, 3 Section structure. See various books by Charles Sharp or http://www.miniatures.de/toe-1943-sovie ... mpany.html. A Platoon is 30 men (3 sections of 9 plus 3 at HQ) and a company is 115 (30 x 3 plus 18 for the MG company plus an HQ of 7) and this is borne out in the descriptions of the organisation in the book "Tank Rider" of exactly this unit. I agree adding a fourth section clears up the LMG question but then poses a bigger one by increasing the number of men (9 extra sections of 9 men) by 81.
I have downloaded the shtat for 10/370-380 (April 42) and 10/370-380 (Sept 42) from the Tankfront.ru website,
I have the basic information on the 10/420-432 one from the Red Army Handbook
but would like to get the shtat 10/420-432 from Russia if I can and now also the 010/373 - мотострелковый батальон (мотострелковой бригады штата № 010/370) for the Battalion structure of the Sept 42.
If someone can supply these then I can nail down the discrepancies in Zaloga.
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Gary Kennedy
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Right, looking a the same page now 
Actually I don't think they are that dissimilar. 2.17 gives the offr/NCO/pvt breakdown that 2.9 lacks. but I think overall it reflects the increases in strength noted in the text from July 1942; adding 66 men to the Mot Bn could easily tie in with the addition of an MG Coy and possibly increase in atk rifles. Most of the other units in the Bde have the same personnel and sp weapons totals, while the Mrtr Bn displays the increase of 120-mm tubes and personnel, though the AA Bn is different in terms of guns.
The Aug 1941 Tank Bde detailed at table 2.7 does have a Rifle Pl strength at least, 1 offr, 4 NCOs and 29 men, which would likely be four 8-man Squads plus an officer and runner for Pl HQ, so they were using four Squads per Pl at some point in the torrid history of Red Army mech/mot inf!
If there was a bit more info you could try to reverse engineer the structure, but not when the figures are so broad.
Gary
Actually I don't think they are that dissimilar. 2.17 gives the offr/NCO/pvt breakdown that 2.9 lacks. but I think overall it reflects the increases in strength noted in the text from July 1942; adding 66 men to the Mot Bn could easily tie in with the addition of an MG Coy and possibly increase in atk rifles. Most of the other units in the Bde have the same personnel and sp weapons totals, while the Mrtr Bn displays the increase of 120-mm tubes and personnel, though the AA Bn is different in terms of guns.
The Aug 1941 Tank Bde detailed at table 2.7 does have a Rifle Pl strength at least, 1 offr, 4 NCOs and 29 men, which would likely be four 8-man Squads plus an officer and runner for Pl HQ, so they were using four Squads per Pl at some point in the torrid history of Red Army mech/mot inf!
If there was a bit more info you could try to reverse engineer the structure, but not when the figures are so broad.
Gary
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
In looking for this NKO order I cam cross this one for the formation of 1st and 2nd Guards Mech Corps in Oct 1942:
NKO Order number 00220 of October 22, 1942
"On the constitution of the mechanized corps"
October 22, 1942
I hereby order:
1. Form: a) on the basis of the 1st Guards Infantry Division, the output from the Bryansk Front, - the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps, and b) at the 22th Guards Rifle Division, the output in the North-Western Front - 2nd Guards Mechanized housing.
Term availability of buildings: the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps November 10, dislocation - District Atkarsk Tatischevo-2-Guards Mechanized Corps November 25. city, dislocation Morshansk.
2. 1st and 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps as part of a number in accordance with Annex 1, numbering 17,437 people each.
3. Mechanized Brigade deployed on the b ... Division.
4. General guidance on the formation of the mechanized corps lay chief Glavupraforma Comrade. Shchadenko.
5. GABTU chief of the Red Army to form a tank regiments, independent battalions and bringing up some damage control battalions.
6. Commander of the artillery of the Red Army: a) form two anti-aircraft artillery regiment, drawing on their formation available in the divisions antiaircraft artillery battalion, and b) to man up artillery regiments and some artillery units fighter crews up to full authorized strength.
7. Commander of the Guards Mortar by the Red Army to form two battalions of Guards mortar M-13.
8. Formation of parts specified in paragraphs. 5, 6, 7, to finish the 1st Mechanized Corps to November 5 and for the 2nd Mechanized Corps to 20 November. Mr.
9. Chief of the staff and the head of the main NGOs complement the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps to November 1, and the 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps to November 10. , the combat and carefully selected team and commanding staff.
10. Glavupraforma chief of the Red Army Guards Mechanized Corps staffed by the appropriate service in the Guards parts privates and junior officers of, including by students regimental schools and military academies.
Head of the main NGOs to allocate the required number of specialists formed units.
Staffing privates and junior officers of the end of the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps to 5 November and the 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps to 20 November. Mr.
11. SAU chief of the Red Army to provide arms mechanized corps, and chief of the main property and materiel to the same terms.
12. GABTU chief of the Red Army mechanized corps to ensure their readiness deadline laid trucks and tractors.
13. On the course of the formation inform me through the head Glavupraforma every 3 days, starting on 26 October, with. The order was put in place by wire. Sample to 1 liter.
The People's Commissar of Defense
I. Stalin
Appendix № 1 to the order № 00 220 NGOs
Parts list and number of staff of the 1st and 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps
Number number nn Names of parts Regular staffing
1 Case Management 145 persons.
2 Guards Mechanized Brigade (in case 3) 3997 people. each
3 Separate Guards Tank Regiment (in housing five, three of them in the team) 357 people. each
4 Guards Artillery Regiment 989 people.
5 Separate Guards antitank battalion 298 people.
6 Separate Guards air defense artillery regiment 420 people.
7 Separate Guards Mortar Division M-13 250 people.
8 Battery Management Chief of Artillery 63 people.
9 Separate Guards machine-gun battalion 246 people.
10 Guards Training Battalion 623 people.
11 Separate Guards Battalion 491 people.
12 Separate Guards Battalion 293 people.
13 Separate guard chemical company. protection 52 people.
14 Separate guard reconnaissance company 169 people.
15 Separate battalion of the transport of the Guards Corps 294 people.
16 Separate repair and restoration battalion Guards Corps 214 people.
17 Selected health Battalion Guards Corps 103 persons.
18 Field bakery Guards Corps 70 people.
19 Marching repair shop 12 people.
Total: 17,437 people.
Head of organizational and personnel management Glavupraforma
Major General quadrangular
TsAMO. f. 4, Op. 11, 68, l. 343 - 344. The original.
NKO Order number 00220 of October 22, 1942
"On the constitution of the mechanized corps"
October 22, 1942
I hereby order:
1. Form: a) on the basis of the 1st Guards Infantry Division, the output from the Bryansk Front, - the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps, and b) at the 22th Guards Rifle Division, the output in the North-Western Front - 2nd Guards Mechanized housing.
Term availability of buildings: the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps November 10, dislocation - District Atkarsk Tatischevo-2-Guards Mechanized Corps November 25. city, dislocation Morshansk.
2. 1st and 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps as part of a number in accordance with Annex 1, numbering 17,437 people each.
3. Mechanized Brigade deployed on the b ... Division.
4. General guidance on the formation of the mechanized corps lay chief Glavupraforma Comrade. Shchadenko.
5. GABTU chief of the Red Army to form a tank regiments, independent battalions and bringing up some damage control battalions.
6. Commander of the artillery of the Red Army: a) form two anti-aircraft artillery regiment, drawing on their formation available in the divisions antiaircraft artillery battalion, and b) to man up artillery regiments and some artillery units fighter crews up to full authorized strength.
7. Commander of the Guards Mortar by the Red Army to form two battalions of Guards mortar M-13.
8. Formation of parts specified in paragraphs. 5, 6, 7, to finish the 1st Mechanized Corps to November 5 and for the 2nd Mechanized Corps to 20 November. Mr.
9. Chief of the staff and the head of the main NGOs complement the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps to November 1, and the 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps to November 10. , the combat and carefully selected team and commanding staff.
10. Glavupraforma chief of the Red Army Guards Mechanized Corps staffed by the appropriate service in the Guards parts privates and junior officers of, including by students regimental schools and military academies.
Head of the main NGOs to allocate the required number of specialists formed units.
Staffing privates and junior officers of the end of the 1st Guards Mechanized Corps to 5 November and the 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps to 20 November. Mr.
11. SAU chief of the Red Army to provide arms mechanized corps, and chief of the main property and materiel to the same terms.
12. GABTU chief of the Red Army mechanized corps to ensure their readiness deadline laid trucks and tractors.
13. On the course of the formation inform me through the head Glavupraforma every 3 days, starting on 26 October, with. The order was put in place by wire. Sample to 1 liter.
The People's Commissar of Defense
I. Stalin
Appendix № 1 to the order № 00 220 NGOs
Parts list and number of staff of the 1st and 2nd Guards Mechanized Corps
Number number nn Names of parts Regular staffing
1 Case Management 145 persons.
2 Guards Mechanized Brigade (in case 3) 3997 people. each
3 Separate Guards Tank Regiment (in housing five, three of them in the team) 357 people. each
4 Guards Artillery Regiment 989 people.
5 Separate Guards antitank battalion 298 people.
6 Separate Guards air defense artillery regiment 420 people.
7 Separate Guards Mortar Division M-13 250 people.
8 Battery Management Chief of Artillery 63 people.
9 Separate Guards machine-gun battalion 246 people.
10 Guards Training Battalion 623 people.
11 Separate Guards Battalion 491 people.
12 Separate Guards Battalion 293 people.
13 Separate guard chemical company. protection 52 people.
14 Separate guard reconnaissance company 169 people.
15 Separate battalion of the transport of the Guards Corps 294 people.
16 Separate repair and restoration battalion Guards Corps 214 people.
17 Selected health Battalion Guards Corps 103 persons.
18 Field bakery Guards Corps 70 people.
19 Marching repair shop 12 people.
Total: 17,437 people.
Head of organizational and personnel management Glavupraforma
Major General quadrangular
TsAMO. f. 4, Op. 11, 68, l. 343 - 344. The original.
Last edited by Der Alte Fritz on 06 Feb 2013, 18:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Приказ НКО СССР № 00220 от 22 октября 1942 г.
«О сформировании механизированных корпусов»
22 октября 1942 г.
Приказываю:
1. Сформировать: а) на базе 1-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии, выводимой из Брянского фронта, — 1-й гвардейский механизированный корпус; б) на базе 22-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии, выводимой на Северо-Западного фронта, — 2-й гвардейский механизированный корпус.
Срок готовности корпусов: 1-го гвардейского мехкорпуса 10 ноября с.г., дислокация — район Аткарск-Татищево; 2-го гвардейского мехкорпуса 25 ноября с. г., дислокация г. Моршанск.
2. 1-й и 2-й гвардейские механизированные корпуса иметь в составе согласно приложению № 1, численностью 17 437 человек каждый.
3. Механизированные бригады развернуть на базе гвардейских стрелковых полков 1-й и 22-й гвардейских стрелковых дивизий.
4. Общее руководство формированием мехкорпусов возложить на начальника Главупраформа тов. Щаденко.
5. Начальнику ГАБТУ Красной Армии сформировать танковые полки, отдельные батальоны подвоза и отдельные ремонтно-восстановительные батальоны.
6. Начальнику артиллерии Красной Армии: а) сформировать два зенитных артполка, обратив на их формирование имеющиеся в дивизиях зенитные артдивизионы; б) доукомплектовать артполки и отдельные истребительные артиллерийские подразделения бригад до полной штатной численности.
7. Командующему гвардейскими минометными частями Красной Армии сформировать 2 гвардейских минометных дивизиона М-13.
8. Формирование частей, указанных в пп. 5, 6, 7 закончить для 1-го мехкорпуса к 5 ноября и для 2-го мехкорпуса к 20 ноября с. г.
9. Начальнику Главного управления кадров и начальникам главных управлений НКО укомплектовать 1-й гвардейский мехкорпус к 1 ноября и 2-й гвардейский мехкорпус к 10 ноября с. г. боевым и тщательно отобранным командным и начальствующим составом.
10. Начальнику Главупраформа Красной Армии укомплектовать гвардейские мехкорпуса соответствующим службе в гвардейских частях рядовым и младшим начальствующим составом, в том числе и за счет курсантов полковых школ и военных училищ.
Начальникам главных управлений НКО выделить необходимое количество специалистов для формируемых частей.
Укомплектование рядовым и младшим начальствующим составом закончить 1-го гвардейского мехкорпуса к 5 ноября и 2-го гвардейского мехкорпуса к 20 ноября с. г.
11. Начальнику ГАУ Красной Армии обеспечить мехкорпуса вооружением, а начальникам главных управлений имуществом и материальной частью к тем же срокам.
12. Начальнику ГАБТУ Красной Армии обеспечить мехкорпуса к сроку их готовности положенным автотранспортом и тракторами.
13. О ходе формирования доносить мне через начальника Главупраформа каждые 3 дня, начиная с 26 октября с. г. Приказ ввести в действие по телеграфу. Приложение: на 1л.
Народный комиссар обороны СССР
И. Сталин
Приложение № 1 к приказу НКО № 00220
Перечень частей и штатная численность 1-го и 2-го гвардейских механизированных корпусов
№№ пп Наименование частей Штатная численность
1 Управление корпуса 145 чел.
2 Гвардейские механизированные бригады (в корпусе 3) 3997 чел. каждая
3 Отдельные гвардейские танковые полки (в корпусе пять, из них три в бригадах) 357 чел. каждый
4 Гвардейский артиллерийский полк 989 чел.
5 Отдельный гвардейский истребительно-противотанковый дивизион 298 чел.
6 Отдельный гвардейский зенитный артполк 420 чел.
7 Отдельный гвардейский минометный дивизион М-13 250 чел.
8 Батарея управления начальника артиллерии 63 чел.
9 Отдельный гвардейский пулеметный батальон 246 чел.
10 Гвардейский учебный батальон 623 чел.
11 Отдельный гвардейский саперный батальон 491 чел.
12 Отдельный гвардейский батальон связи 293 чел.
13 Отдельная гвардейская рота хим. защиты 52 чел.
14 Отдельная гвардейская разведывательная рота 169 чел.
15 Отдельный батальон подвоза гвардейского корпуса 294 чел.
16 Отдельный ремонтно-восстановительный батальон гвардейского корпуса 214 чел.
17 Отдельный медико-санитарный батальон гвардейского корпуса 103 чел.
18 Полевая хлебопекарня гвардейского корпуса 70 чел.
19 Походная ремонтная мастерская 12 чел.
Итого: 17.437 чел.
Начальник организационно-штатного управления Главупраформа
генерал-майор ЧЕТВЕРИКОВ
ЦАМО. ф. 4, оп. 11, д. 68, л. 343 - 344. Подлинник.
Литература и источники:
Русский архив: Великая Отечественная: Приказы народного комиссара обороны СССР 22 июня 1941 г. — 1942 г. т. 13. М.: ТЕРРА, 1997.
«О сформировании механизированных корпусов»
22 октября 1942 г.
Приказываю:
1. Сформировать: а) на базе 1-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии, выводимой из Брянского фронта, — 1-й гвардейский механизированный корпус; б) на базе 22-й гвардейской стрелковой дивизии, выводимой на Северо-Западного фронта, — 2-й гвардейский механизированный корпус.
Срок готовности корпусов: 1-го гвардейского мехкорпуса 10 ноября с.г., дислокация — район Аткарск-Татищево; 2-го гвардейского мехкорпуса 25 ноября с. г., дислокация г. Моршанск.
2. 1-й и 2-й гвардейские механизированные корпуса иметь в составе согласно приложению № 1, численностью 17 437 человек каждый.
3. Механизированные бригады развернуть на базе гвардейских стрелковых полков 1-й и 22-й гвардейских стрелковых дивизий.
4. Общее руководство формированием мехкорпусов возложить на начальника Главупраформа тов. Щаденко.
5. Начальнику ГАБТУ Красной Армии сформировать танковые полки, отдельные батальоны подвоза и отдельные ремонтно-восстановительные батальоны.
6. Начальнику артиллерии Красной Армии: а) сформировать два зенитных артполка, обратив на их формирование имеющиеся в дивизиях зенитные артдивизионы; б) доукомплектовать артполки и отдельные истребительные артиллерийские подразделения бригад до полной штатной численности.
7. Командующему гвардейскими минометными частями Красной Армии сформировать 2 гвардейских минометных дивизиона М-13.
8. Формирование частей, указанных в пп. 5, 6, 7 закончить для 1-го мехкорпуса к 5 ноября и для 2-го мехкорпуса к 20 ноября с. г.
9. Начальнику Главного управления кадров и начальникам главных управлений НКО укомплектовать 1-й гвардейский мехкорпус к 1 ноября и 2-й гвардейский мехкорпус к 10 ноября с. г. боевым и тщательно отобранным командным и начальствующим составом.
10. Начальнику Главупраформа Красной Армии укомплектовать гвардейские мехкорпуса соответствующим службе в гвардейских частях рядовым и младшим начальствующим составом, в том числе и за счет курсантов полковых школ и военных училищ.
Начальникам главных управлений НКО выделить необходимое количество специалистов для формируемых частей.
Укомплектование рядовым и младшим начальствующим составом закончить 1-го гвардейского мехкорпуса к 5 ноября и 2-го гвардейского мехкорпуса к 20 ноября с. г.
11. Начальнику ГАУ Красной Армии обеспечить мехкорпуса вооружением, а начальникам главных управлений имуществом и материальной частью к тем же срокам.
12. Начальнику ГАБТУ Красной Армии обеспечить мехкорпуса к сроку их готовности положенным автотранспортом и тракторами.
13. О ходе формирования доносить мне через начальника Главупраформа каждые 3 дня, начиная с 26 октября с. г. Приказ ввести в действие по телеграфу. Приложение: на 1л.
Народный комиссар обороны СССР
И. Сталин
Приложение № 1 к приказу НКО № 00220
Перечень частей и штатная численность 1-го и 2-го гвардейских механизированных корпусов
№№ пп Наименование частей Штатная численность
1 Управление корпуса 145 чел.
2 Гвардейские механизированные бригады (в корпусе 3) 3997 чел. каждая
3 Отдельные гвардейские танковые полки (в корпусе пять, из них три в бригадах) 357 чел. каждый
4 Гвардейский артиллерийский полк 989 чел.
5 Отдельный гвардейский истребительно-противотанковый дивизион 298 чел.
6 Отдельный гвардейский зенитный артполк 420 чел.
7 Отдельный гвардейский минометный дивизион М-13 250 чел.
8 Батарея управления начальника артиллерии 63 чел.
9 Отдельный гвардейский пулеметный батальон 246 чел.
10 Гвардейский учебный батальон 623 чел.
11 Отдельный гвардейский саперный батальон 491 чел.
12 Отдельный гвардейский батальон связи 293 чел.
13 Отдельная гвардейская рота хим. защиты 52 чел.
14 Отдельная гвардейская разведывательная рота 169 чел.
15 Отдельный батальон подвоза гвардейского корпуса 294 чел.
16 Отдельный ремонтно-восстановительный батальон гвардейского корпуса 214 чел.
17 Отдельный медико-санитарный батальон гвардейского корпуса 103 чел.
18 Полевая хлебопекарня гвардейского корпуса 70 чел.
19 Походная ремонтная мастерская 12 чел.
Итого: 17.437 чел.
Начальник организационно-штатного управления Главупраформа
генерал-майор ЧЕТВЕРИКОВ
ЦАМО. ф. 4, оп. 11, д. 68, л. 343 - 344. Подлинник.
Литература и источники:
Русский архив: Великая Отечественная: Приказы народного комиссара обороны СССР 22 июня 1941 г. — 1942 г. т. 13. М.: ТЕРРА, 1997.
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Eugen Pinak
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Der Alte Fritz
According to this page, shtat of motorized rifle battalion is not 010/373, but 010/371.
Also note the post itself:
Also note, that it seems, that there were 12 squads in motorized rifle company - just like in "foot" rifle company.
According to this page, shtat of motorized rifle battalion is not 010/373, but 010/371.
Also note the post itself:
It clearly means, that original motorized rifle battalion had no MG company, which was included later, but still in 1942.Кстати о птичках составе пулеметных расчетов: не далее, как сегодня в ЦАМО выписал такую указивку 1942 г.
Перечень изменений штатов №010/370-010/380 моторизованной стрелковой бригады
В штат №010/371 мотострелкового батальона ввести:
Пулетная рота...
Пулеметный взвод (в роте - 3)
Командир взвода - 3 (лейтенант)
Командир отделения - 9 (сержант)
Зам.ком.отделения, они же наводчики - 9 (мл.сержант)
Пулеметчики - 30 (красноармеец)
Шофера - 3
Автомобилей грузовых 1.5 тн - 3
Пулеметов станковых - 9
Источник - ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441
Also note, that it seems, that there were 12 squads in motorized rifle company - just like in "foot" rifle company.
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Excellent information, thank you very much for that.
Yes it is clear from the NKO order that I posted that the Command simply took an existing Rifle Regiment (in this case Guards ones) and added extra units to it in order to create the first Mech Brigades and so a 4 section platoon was kept.
In this case Zaloga is incorrect when he says for the 1943 shtat that they are very similar because there is a reduction in the number of squads from from 4 to 3 and then later in 1944 the number of men is reduced from 9 to 8 reflecting the manpower shortage, a section largely armed with SMGs and the need to ride on tanks.
The English translation of the post is:
Yes it is clear from the NKO order that I posted that the Command simply took an existing Rifle Regiment (in this case Guards ones) and added extra units to it in order to create the first Mech Brigades and so a 4 section platoon was kept.
In this case Zaloga is incorrect when he says for the 1943 shtat that they are very similar because there is a reduction in the number of squads from from 4 to 3 and then later in 1944 the number of men is reduced from 9 to 8 reflecting the manpower shortage, a section largely armed with SMGs and the need to ride on tanks.
The English translation of the post is:
Speaking of birdies composition machine-gun crew: as recently as today TsAMO ukazivku wrote a 1942 list of changes states № 010/370-010/380 motorized rifle brigade on the staff № 010/371 infantry battalion to enter:
Puletnaya company ...
Machine Gun platoon (in the company - 3)
The platoon leader - 3 (Lieutenant)
squad - 9 (Sergeant)
Zam.kom.otdeleniya, they're gunners - 9 (ml.serzhant)
Heavies - 30 (Red Army)
Chauffeur - 3
Car 1.5 tons of cargo - 3
machine gun heavy machine - 9
Source - TsAMO RF f.316, op.4487, d.149 "management of field army, armored and mechanized units and parts," l.441
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Eugene
Any chance you could help find a copy of:
010/371 - мотострелковый батальон (мотострелковой бригады штата № 010/370).
or even ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441
I am looking myself but it is very slow as I cannot speak Russian.
Any chance you could help find a copy of:
010/371 - мотострелковый батальон (мотострелковой бригады штата № 010/370).
or even ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441
I am looking myself but it is very slow as I cannot speak Russian.
Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Machinegun companyDer Alte Fritz wrote: Puletnaya company ...
deputy squad commandersZam.kom.otdeleniya
Machinegunners (privates)Heavies - 30 (Red Army)
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Jeff Leach
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Your automatic translation post can lead to some laughs
By the way checked the structure of the machine gun crews: was at TsAMO today and copied this decree from 1942: List changes to shtats No. 010/370-010/380 Motorized Rifle Brigades this was listed with shtat No. 010/371 Motorized Rifle Battalions:
MG Company
MG Platoon (in Company 3)
Platoon Commander – 3 (Lieutenant)
Section Commander – 9 (Sergeant)
Section Deputy Commanders, also known as Navodčinki – 9 (Junior Sargeant)
Machine Gunners – 30 (Private)
Drivers – 3
Machine-Gun Tripods - 9
1.5T Cargo Trucks – 3
Source: ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441 (Reserve Front document titled, Field Army Headquarter Shtats – Tank and Mechanized Units and Forces).
It seems to be that the given structure is possably an alteration to the official shtat. Be aware that sometimes shtat were altered (perhaps only locally) without any new offical numbered issued. There are some online examples if you need proof.
Does anyone know if it is allowed to take digital photographs of documents at TsAMO? (I doubt it)
is probably better translated (but maybe still not very good) asКстати о птичках составе пулеметных расчетов: не далее, как сегодня в ЦАМО выписал такую указивку 1942 г. Перечень изменений штатов №010/370-010/380 моторизованной стрелковой бригады В штат №010/371 мотострелкового батальона ввести:
Пулетная рота...
Пулеметный взвод (в роте - 3)
Командир взвода - 3 (лейтенант)
Командир отделения - 9 (сержант)
Зам.ком.отделения, они же наводчики - 9 (мл.сержант)
Пулеметчики - 30 (красноармеец)
Шофера - 3
Автомобилей грузовых 1.5 тн - 3
Пулеметов станковых - 9
Источник - ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441
By the way checked the structure of the machine gun crews: was at TsAMO today and copied this decree from 1942: List changes to shtats No. 010/370-010/380 Motorized Rifle Brigades this was listed with shtat No. 010/371 Motorized Rifle Battalions:
MG Company
MG Platoon (in Company 3)
Platoon Commander – 3 (Lieutenant)
Section Commander – 9 (Sergeant)
Section Deputy Commanders, also known as Navodčinki – 9 (Junior Sargeant)
Machine Gunners – 30 (Private)
Drivers – 3
Machine-Gun Tripods - 9
1.5T Cargo Trucks – 3
Source: ЦАМО РФ, ф.316, оп.4487, д.149 "Штаты полевого управления армии, танковых и механизированных соединений и частей", л.441 (Reserve Front document titled, Field Army Headquarter Shtats – Tank and Mechanized Units and Forces).
It seems to be that the given structure is possably an alteration to the official shtat. Be aware that sometimes shtat were altered (perhaps only locally) without any new offical numbered issued. There are some online examples if you need proof.
Does anyone know if it is allowed to take digital photographs of documents at TsAMO? (I doubt it)
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Sorry for my appalling Russian chaps.
Good old Google translate - not big on military terminology!
Good old Google translate - not big on military terminology!
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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Mechanised Brigade shtat 10/370-380 September 1942
Perhaps the information might be in this book:
Construction and operational use of the Soviet tank forces during World War II
Строительство и боевое применение советских танковых войск в годы Великой Отечественной войны by LOSIK
Construction and operational use of the Soviet tank forces during World War II
Строительство и боевое применение советских танковых войск в годы Великой Отечественной войны by LOSIK