Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
Eugen Pinak
Member
Posts: 898
Joined: 16 Jun 2004 16:09
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Eugen Pinak » 03 May 2018 20:13

Der Alte Fritz wrote: I really like this one https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KcYInX96SYc/ ... 0%25A4.jpg what is the reference? Looks like one of items at the end of a big report and so not easy to find.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=110326229
From page 6 on.

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 03 May 2018 20:24

Thanks Eugen. Very pretty I always like the look of these crayon coloured drawings.

Eugen Pinak
Member
Posts: 898
Joined: 16 Jun 2004 16:09
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Eugen Pinak » 04 May 2018 09:52

Der Alte Fritz wrote:Thanks Eugen. Very pretty I always like the look of these crayon coloured drawings.
You're welcome. I'm really interested with your works on Soviet TOEs. Hope that you, Art and Gary will be able to get all the puzzles together here.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 5452
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Art » 06 May 2018 09:56

Der Alte Fritz wrote: Image
This chart gives the number of radios in the motorized brigade 010/420: 1 RSB, 7 RB with large antennas, 7 RB, 12 RBS, total 27. I suppose, the distribution of radios was as follows:
1 RB and 4 RBS radios in every rifle battalion, total 15 radios
Artillery battalion - 1 RB in the battalion HQ and 1 RB in every battery, total 4
Mortar battalion - 1 RB
The remaining 7 are divided between the HQ company and recce company. Probably 5 (including 1 RSB) in the signals platoon/HQ company and 2 in the recce company.
Inclusion of the AA company must give 1 extra radio, inclusion of the tank regiment 010/414 - 2 radios.

Worth to note that the motor rifle battalion was far better supplied with radios than "normal" Soviet infantry, where a rifle battalion, if lucky, could only have 1 radio for communication with a regiment. On the other hand the artillery battalion had only the most limited means of communications, which determined its employment in the direct fire mode. This notion is supported by actual after-action reports.

Returning to the previous discussion I suppose the organization of the service platoon/motor rifle battalion 010/421 was:
- platoon commander
- motor workshop (foremen, electric mechanic, 2 mechanics, driver/mechanic, driver, "A" type mobile workshop, truck for spare parts)
- weapons workshop (artillery technician, artillery master, machine gun master, chemical master, radio master, driver, 1 truck for personnel and instruments)
- 6 trucks for ammunition/fuel etc, 6 drivers (one is a also leader of the transport section)
- 1 car for the battalion HQ with a driver
- 1 motorcycle for the battalion HQ with a driver
- 3 trucks for rations and kitchens, 3 kitchen trailers, 3 drivers
- administrative section leader (probably also a senior cook)
- 3 cooks
- 1 storeman
Total 29 men (including 1 "A" wotkshop), 12 trucks, 1 car, 1 motorcycle

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 06 May 2018 10:13

Excellent work.
I think that the end we will have to try and pull all this information into one table.
To help work out where we are in the overall Mechanised Corps work here is a table showing all the main units on a timeline and the sources (largely primary ones where possible) we currently have found. At the bottom I have put some general references at the bottom which would give personnel numbers and personal weapons for the sub-units where we have no information.
Sources.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 5452
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Art » 07 May 2018 13:23

Der Alte Fritz wrote:Here are Zaloga's three tables of Motor Rifle Brigades for February, September 1942 and March 1943
I've just noticed a typo in the first table. The original ATR company should have 61 men instead of 81. In that case we have a nearly perfect match with:
https://forum.axishistory.com/download/ ... 418399&t=1
Just from a common sense a company with 18 AT rifles should be smaller than a company with 27 rifles.

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 29 Jun 2018 08:47

Useful report confirming totals for 010/370 in September 1942: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133343093
Similar https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=111935192

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 22 Jul 2018 08:37

In Gary's shtat tables in the personal equipment section they mention "№2" and "№4" - remind me are these kinds of gas mask?

Gary Kennedy
Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 28 Mar 2012 18:56

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Gary Kennedy » 22 Jul 2018 12:01

Are you looking at the penultimate right hand column? If so that's linked to the amount of ammunition provided for their rifle. I think I started a thread on that general subject a while back which pointed out a few examples.

Gary

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 22 Jul 2018 14:30

I think that you are referring to this one:
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=233230&p=2120624#p2120624

Gary Kennedy
Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 28 Mar 2012 18:56

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Gary Kennedy » 22 Jul 2018 14:42

That's the one

Gary

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 22 Jul 2018 18:11

Screenshot 2018-07-22 18.09.12.png
Can anyone help translate this section from the Transport Company of a Motor Rifle Battalion (page 8 of 10)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Gary Kennedy
Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 28 Mar 2012 18:56

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Gary Kennedy » 22 Jul 2018 18:31

That was a bit I'd had a crack at, but on review look to have left a couple of blanks myself -

автотранспортных взвод – motor platoon

командир взвод – platoon commander (1)

??? – Four squads

командир отделения – squad commander (4)
шофер – driver (32)
автомобиль пигмей – car (1)
автомобиль грузовой 1.5-т пол личный состав - Truck 1.5 tons Regiment personnel (31)

???
командир отделения – squad commander (1)
??? (1)
шофер – driver (6)
автомобиль грузовой 1.5-т пол боеприиасы - Truck 1.5 tons of ammunition (2)
автомобиль грузовой 1.5-т личный имущество с и имущество связи – truck 1.5-tons for personal property and signal equipment (2)
автомобиль грузовой 1.5-т пол бочки с горючим– truck cargo 1.5 tons barrels of fuel (2)

Gary

User avatar
Der Alte Fritz
Member
Posts: 2010
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 21:43
Location: Kent United Kingdom

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 23 Jul 2018 09:09

It is really the titles that I am struggling to read
I made the first one to be:
"Four detachments for carrying signals equipment, personnel and weapons"

and the second one
"Detachment for carrying? barrels? of Fuel, Engineer, Intendant? supplies and signals supplies"

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 5452
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Mechanised Corps 2nd Generation

Post by Art » 23 Jul 2018 09:24

"Four detachments for carrying signals equipment, personnel and weapons"
Four sections/squads for transportation of personnel and weapons
"Detachment for carrying? barrels? of Fuel, Engineer, Intendant? supplies and signals supplies"
Section/squad for delivery of ammunition, fuel, engineer, chemical and signal materials/equipment.

Return to “The Soviet Union at War 1917-1945”