Soviet Naval Battles

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igorr
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 28 Apr 2018 06:08

lupodimare89 wrote: 30 June 1941
Ju-87 (GroupIV,1st training squadron, serial 5878) by Soviet destroyers Uritskyi and Valerian Kuybyshev. Pilot wounded but escaped to German lines, co-pilot killed. Solely Uritskyi claimed victory but it is possible the other ship achieved it.
There was also 2 MO-cutters for AA-defence. All ships claimed 3 downed planes in this attack.
lupodimare89 wrote: 11 July 1941
Ju-87 (serial Nr. 5424) shot down by the Soviet submarine chaser MO-141 north-west of Murmansk, while suffering damage. Both crewmembers survived, reached the shore and German lines.
11 July 1941
Ju-87 (serial 5469) was also lost while flying back to the base when the engine caught fire possibly due ship’s anti-aircraft hits: after an emergency landing the aircraft completely burned (crew saved).
Stukas bombed many targets that day - in sea, land front and aerodroms. MO claimed one, also 2 claimed I-15 fighters, so one Ju-87 (5424, lost on Liza) may be shot down by ship's flak (or ground fire). But second stuka 100% not our case.
lupodimare89 wrote: 19 July 1941
Ju-87 (serial 5502 "L1 + FW", crew MIA) shot down by the combined anti-aircraft fire from auxiliary patrol boat Shtil and auxiliary minesweeper Tszcz-31.
SHTIL was sunk in this attack.
lupodimare89 wrote: 16 September 1941
Ju-88 (Group II, 30th Squadron, serial 3306) shot down by anti-aircraft fire from corvette Sapfir and submarine chaser MO-252. Crew saved.
NOTE: of this I found no trace on Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book
This is very doubtful case. MO-252 and SAPFIR claimed 2 planes shot down over Yokanga.
Germans say plane crashed due technical malfunction. As crew was saved, reason must be prooved.
lupodimare89 wrote: 29 September 1941
Ju-88 (Group II, 30th Squadron, serial 5039) shot down by ant-aircraft fire from Soviet ships in Barents Sea.
NOTE: of this I found no trace on Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book
This plane lost himself during recon flight. As fuel was out, Ju-88 make emergency landing on soviet-held territory. No claims for it in soviet sources.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 28 Apr 2018 09:24

Thank for your view, the book i read actually assessed positively all these cases excluding 16 September and 29 September (including evaluating effectiveness of naval AA over ground or fighter's claim), likely due their weakness.




Here the others i collected for 1942 (first half):


24 January 1942
A German He-111 bomber (n°4322) shot down near Murmansk by anti-aircraft fire from ships?
NOTE: of this I found no trace on Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book


11 April 1942
Convoy QP-10
Ju-88 bomber (serial 880197 4D+GA, crew MIA) probably shot down by anti-aircraft fire from Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi.
It is generally indicated as possibly shared with British merchant "Empire Cowper". Plane crashed in front of Soviet merchant "Kiev".
Other two Ju-88 bombers (both from II./KG30) suffered significant damages while a third one suffered light damage with pilot wounded:
all these cannot be assigned to individual ships i think (at the moment convoy included only Gremyashchyi and Sokrushitelnyi, versus 5 British destroyers and 4 minesweepers).



29 April 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk,
Ju-88 (Nr.140210 "4D + GH") and Ju-88 (Nr.0883701 "4D + CK) were shot down (7 killed, 1 POW).
Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book do not make a neat assessment: only describe MO-121 (while under repair) opening fire against attackers.
Also no indication of effective fighters or ground AA result



3 May 1942
Convoy PQ-15 (contemporary to QP-11),
Soviet Icebreaker Krassin opened fire with 76mm guns against an incoming assault of He-111. The German torpedo bomber He-111 (n°4950, crew WIA) hit by anti-aircraft fire was almost going to crash on the ship but Krassin managed to avoid it stopping the course.



15 May 1942
German attacked the shipping of Convoy PQ-14 previously arrived on Murmansk: the American merchant Yaka (5432 GT) was sunk, while Soviet submarine ShCh-404 was damaged. Germans paid with the loss of bomber Ju-88 (Nr.142038 "4D + HM") and bomber Ju-88 (Nr.142055 "4D + LN"): all crew lost. No indication given of exact claims.



17 May 1942
A raid by German Ju-88 bombers at Yokanga sunk the Soviet patrol ship SKR-21, while SKR-22 and SKR-25 were damaged. 6 Soviet sailors died and 24 were wounded. A German Ju-88 bomber (n°882033 from II./KG30) suffered damages from the anti-aircraft fire but returned to the airfield.



28 May 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk, Germans made four raids against shipping in harbor but without damage reported. One Ju-87 (n°5709 from I./StG5) was hit and lost while attempting an emergency landing not reaching the airfield.
So far victory seems shared by Soviet fighters of 122nd IAD PVO, ground anti-aircraft battery and fire from Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 03 May 2018 07:35

lupodimare89 wrote: 24 January 1942
A German He-111 bomber (n°4322) shot down near Murmansk by anti-aircraft fire from ships?
Nobody knows, what happend with this plane - it was missed. There is one claim this day made by 3 british minesweepers, but there was 3 planes at same time. He-111 must be alone. One plane lost some pieces of its fuselage after firing from shore AA battery Nr. 828.
lupodimare89 wrote: 11 April 1942
Convoy QP-10
Ju-88 bomber (serial 880197 4D+GA, crew MIA) probably shot down by anti-aircraft fire from Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi.
It is generally indicated as possibly shared with British merchant "Empire Cowper". Plane crashed in front of Soviet merchant "Kiev".
Other two Ju-88 bombers (both from II./KG30) suffered significant damages while a third one suffered light damage with pilot wounded:
all these cannot be assigned to individual ships i think (at the moment convoy included only Gremyashchyi and Sokrushitelnyi, versus 5 British destroyers and 4 minesweepers).
As you said, it is very hard to calculate chances of soviet DD's for real success.
lupodimare89 wrote: 29 April 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk,
Ju-88 (Nr.140210 "4D + GH") and Ju-88 (Nr.0883701 "4D + CK) were shot down (7 killed, 1 POW).
This raid was made against ground forces not ships. There is one claim for Me-110 in same place, same time (no such planes in reality, so this must be Ju-88). Single soviet ship fired at Ju-88 (SMERCH) made no claims.
lupodimare89 wrote: 3 May 1942
Convoy PQ-15 (contemporary to QP-11),
Soviet Icebreaker Krassin opened fire with 76mm guns against an incoming assault of He-111. The German torpedo bomber He-111 (n°4950, crew WIA) hit by anti-aircraft fire was almost going to crash on the ship but Krassin managed to avoid it stopping the course.

Here again is hard to say, who downed plane in reality. I think many ships from convoy made claims for He-111. Btw, all crew 4950 was lost. Two WIA are from another He-111.
lupodimare89 wrote: 15 May 1942
German attacked the shipping of Convoy PQ-14 previously arrived on Murmansk: the American merchant Yaka (5432 GT) was sunk, while Soviet submarine ShCh-404 was damaged. Germans paid with the loss of bomber Ju-88 (Nr.142038 "4D + HM") and bomber Ju-88 (Nr.142055 "4D + LN"): all crew lost. No indication given of exact claims.
Fighters claimed 1 Ju-88 as downed and 3 as damaged in this raid. AA and ships made no claims.
lupodimare89 wrote: 17 May 1942
A raid by German Ju-88 bombers at Yokanga sunk the Soviet patrol ship SKR-21, while SKR-22 and SKR-25 were damaged. 6 Soviet sailors died and 24 were wounded. A German Ju-88 bomber (n°882033 from II./KG30) suffered damages from the anti-aircraft fire but returned to the airfield.
Soviet side made no claims.
lupodimare89 wrote: 28 May 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk, Germans made four raids against shipping in harbor but without damage reported. One Ju-87 (n°5709 from I./StG5) was hit and lost while attempting an emergency landing not reaching the airfield.
So far victory seems shared by Soviet fighters of 122nd IAD PVO, ground anti-aircraft battery and fire from Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi.
There was 5 claims in all for this one plane - 3 for 768 IAP 122 IAD PWO, 1 for 122 ZAD (AA-dvision) and 1 for GREMJASCHIY. I think that fighter's claims are more solid.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 03 May 2018 11:40

Thanks again for your reply, case of 29 April is particularly interesting (because the author wrote directly that both planes were shot down by ship in harbor, just did not specified identity).

----

Next batch:

29 May 1942
Convoy PQ-16
Soviet destroyers Sokrushitelnyi, Groznyi and Valerian Kuybyshev took over cover of the convoy: left Allied escort is reported to have depleted ammunition.
Ju-88 bomber (n°882100 "4D + EM", crew MIA) shot down after a barrage from the Soviet DDs (130mm), shared victory.
torpedo-bomber He-111 (I./KG26) suffering 1 crewmember wounded and making an hard landing in airdrome. (again shared victory, unclear).
Other losses included Ju-88 (1760 "4D + CM") likely shot-down by Soviet ace Safanov on “Kittyhawk” fighter, who himself crashed and died.

Another loss I found (not described nor commented in Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book) is Ju-88 (serial 430244) crashed while landing on Kirkenes airfield on day 30 May, probably due accident or possible battle damage.



1 June 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk, attacks on ships from arrived Convoy PQ-13.
Ju-87 (n°6234 "L1 + CV" from I./StG5)(pilot survived and reached German lines, co-pilot MIA).
Indicated as shared victory between Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi and anti-aircraft defense. (AA defens and fighters claimed up 8 planes shot down, fighters claims are dismissed in the book).
2 merchant ships (1 American, 1 Soviet) sunk in harbor.



18 September 1942
Convoy PQ-18
Probably the most successful Soviet AA-defense in Arctic convoy.
Soviet destroyers Sokrushitelnyi, Gremyashchyi, Uritskyi and Valerian Kuybyshev joined convoy when (as PQ-16) Allied escort was reduced and with depleted ammunition.
torpedo-bomber He-111 (n°7168) exploded mid-air after barrage-fire from Gremyashchyi main 130mm
bomber Ju-88 (n°2130) shot down by unclear unit (shared? there are claims?)
Other two bombers returned with damages (once again probably all shared).
Ju-88 (n°1562), 30% damages with 4 wounded
Ju-88 (n°6599), 70% damages
1 ship sunk during the attack.



9 October 1942
Ju-88 bomber (III group of the 30th squadron. Tactical number 4D + CR) shot down by ships from a local convoy near Vaenga.
NOTE: of this I found no trace on Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book



---


That's all for 1942.

An often extra victory claimed occurred on 13 March 1942, during convoy. When minesweeper "Stefa" shot-down a German Ju-88 while protecting a merchant (both ship were stragglers). However if I am correct, the ship was on transfer to join the Soviet Navy, and at the time of the incident she was still manned by British sailors and flying British flag.
(Stefa received Soviet crew on 21 March and turned minesweeper "T-103" on 9 May 1942).

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 04 May 2018 03:23

lupodimare89 wrote:Thanks again for your reply, case of 29 April is particularly interesting (because the author wrote directly that both planes were shot down by ship in harbor, just did not specified identity).
No matter, what is written in this book - authors never see any documents. And in docs (both soviet and german) attacks was made on land positions on Liza mouth, when hard fighting take place that days.
----
lupodimare89 wrote: 29 May 1942
Convoy PQ-16
Soviet destroyers Sokrushitelnyi, Groznyi and Valerian Kuybyshev took over cover of the convoy: left Allied escort is reported to have depleted ammunition.
Ju-88 bomber (n°882100 "4D + EM", crew MIA) shot down after a barrage from the Soviet DDs (130mm), shared victory.
torpedo-bomber He-111 (I./KG26) suffering 1 crewmember wounded and making an hard landing in airdrome. (again shared victory, unclear).
Other losses included Ju-88 (1760 "4D + CM") likely shot-down by Soviet ace Safanov on “Kittyhawk” fighter, who himself crashed and died.
1760 was shot down next day - 30.5.1942. Safonov (not Safanov) was shot down in battle with recon plane Ju-88D-5 from 1./124.
Of course nobody can say for sure which ship shot down 4D+CM or wounded fw. Pesch from He-111.
lupodimare89 wrote: Another loss I found (not described nor commented in Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book) is Ju-88 (serial 430244) crashed while landing on Kirkenes airfield on day 30 May, probably due accident or possible battle damage.
This is the plane who shot down Safonov at 30.5.42 and crashed himself while landind. Indeed after battle damage, but battle with P-40, not ships.
lupodimare89 wrote: 1 June 1942
During an air raid on Murmansk, attacks on ships from arrived Convoy PQ-13.
Ju-87 (n°6234 "L1 + CV" from I./StG5)(pilot survived and reached German lines, co-pilot MIA).
Indicated as shared victory between Soviet destroyer Gremyashchyi and anti-aircraft defense. (AA defens and fighters claimed up 8 planes shot down, fighters claims are dismissed in the book).
2 merchant ships (1 American, 1 Soviet) sunk in harbor.
There was 18 claims in all for this day, including 8 Ju-87. GREMJASHIJ claimed 3 Ju-87, all shot down by main artillery (130-mm). I'm very doubt that she can aim this not AA-guns to diving stukas. More likely, sole downed Ju-87 - one of 3 claims made by fighters.
lupodimare89 wrote: 9 October 1942
Ju-88 bomber (III group of the 30th squadron. Tactical number 4D + CR) shot down by ships from a local convoy near Vaenga.
NOTE: of this I found no trace on Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov book
Vaenga was land aerodrome far from sea, so no convoys here. Ju-88 was shot down while bombed this place (called Warlamowo by germans).

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 04 May 2018 17:56

No matter, what is written in this book - authors never see any documents.
Personally I am not going to disprove a modern-day author who seems competent in his writing to another who i equally think it's competent.
(nor I am to indulge into author-vs-author conflics).
That's why i asked a confrontation ^^ To match and see what cases and description match (fully, loosely or nothing).

----
1760 was shot down next day - 30.5.1942. Safonov (not Safanov) was shot down in battle with recon plane Ju-88D-5 from 1./124.
Of course nobody can say for sure which ship shot down 4D+CM or wounded fw. Pesch from He-111.
Ju-88 (serial 430244) crashed while landing on Kirkenes
This is the plane who shot down Safonov at 30.5.42 and crashed himself while landind. Indeed after battle damage, but battle with P-40, not ships.
As pure curiosity (air-fighting is very limited knowledge for me), in the end Safonov before his death was responsable for Ju-88 (serial 430244), and Ju-88 (1760 "4D + CM"), before he was shot down himself all on 30? The book mentioned 1760 "4D + CM" as possible victim of this ace.

----

Concerning the incident of 13 March 1942 (minesweeper "Stefa") do you agree/confirm my opinion that the Ship was all British-manned and flagged?

----



Here the last events i gathered for 1943 in Arctic



17 February 1943
Ju-88 bomber (serial 881203 "4N + EH") hit by anti-aircraft fire from Soviet merchant Andre Marti (2352 GRT). Crew saved, but plane crash-landed and was completely lost. It was the only confirmed case when a Soviet merchant managed to shot down an enemy aircraft.


11 May 1943
Fw-190 (serial 524, pilot Günter Busse KIA), shot down in Motovka Bay by fire from Soviet submarine chaser MO-112.
Escorted minesweeper n°404 grounded as result of attack.
NOTE: actually Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov state this as shared victory between the MO and ground artillery. But i saw a post of your on tsushima.su directly stating it was MO-112.



5 June 1943
Accidentally capsized seaplane Do-24 (serial 0094) sunk with gunfire by MO-116 (ex-MO-123) (2 pow, other 4 mia in crash).
Seaplane was trying to recovering pilot of Bf-109 (serial 7480, pilot Helmut Steinle), shot down in combat by Soviet “Hurricane” (pilot not found, on their side Soviets lost first 9 “Hurricane”). The whole battle centered around a barge carrying ten artillery guns.


12 June 1943
Bf-109 (serial 14237, pilot killed) shot down by submarine chasers MO-131 and MO-136. MO-131 suffered damages during the attack



18 June 1943
Fw-190 (serial 135488) crashed after accidentally touching the mast of motorboat OS-4.
Fw-190 (serial 135528) shot down by anti-aircraft fire from auxiliary patrol ship Priliv (I read on another sources shot-down by motorboat Chelyuskinets; Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov state it was Priliv.



18 August 1943
Bf-109 (serial 15597, pilot Christian Stolz MIA) shot down by auxiliary patrol boats n°9 or n°42 (Germans disprove the claim of multiple victories by Soviet aircrafts).
Previously same boats hit Fw-190 (serial 2167, damage at 10%)
Both ships lost alongside motorboat PMB-61.
Also 4 "Hurricane" and 3 Yak-1 fighters shot-down.




23 October 1943
Seaplane BV-138 (3(F)/SAGr130, serial 0135), on sea with troubles was captured by Soviet hydrographic vessel Mgla (5 pow, made no resistance).
Soviet destroyer Zhguchiy attempted to tow the seaplane, but due weather it sunk (1 died while attempting to prevent sinking).

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 07 May 2018 08:44

lupodimare89 wrote: (nor I am to indulge into author-vs-author conflics).
This is not a conflict, just constatation. There is no link to documents in this book.
lupodimare89 wrote: Concerning the incident of 13 March 1942 (minesweeper "Stefa") do you agree/confirm my opinion that the Ship was all British-manned and flagged?
Of course, i agree.
lupodimare89 wrote: 17 February 1943
Ju-88 bomber (serial 881203 "4N + EH") hit by anti-aircraft fire from Soviet merchant Andre Marti (2352 GRT). Crew saved, but plane crash-landed and was completely lost. It was the only confirmed case when a Soviet merchant managed to shot down an enemy aircraft.
Looks like one from few very highly probable soviet kill.
lupodimare89 wrote: 11 May 1943
Fw-190 (serial 524, pilot Günter Busse KIA), shot down in Motovka Bay by fire from Soviet submarine chaser MO-112.
Escorted minesweeper n°404 grounded as result of attack.
NOTE: actually Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov state this as shared victory between the MO and ground artillery. But i saw a post of your on tsushima.su directly stating it was MO-112.
Yes, another very probable kill.
lupodimare89 wrote: 5 June 1943
Accidentally capsized seaplane Do-24 (serial 0094) sunk with gunfire by MO-116 (ex-MO-123) (2 pow, other 4 mia in crash).
Seaplane was trying to recovering pilot of Bf-109 (serial 7480, pilot Helmut Steinle), shot down in combat by Soviet “Hurricane” (pilot not found, on their side Soviets lost first 9 “Hurricane”). The whole battle centered around a barge carrying ten artillery guns.
In fact there was 5 planes claimed by cutters and 8 claims by fighters. 13 for one real loss. I can't say that sole Bf-109 was shot down by ships. Probability of ship's kill very little in my opinion.
lupodimare89 wrote: 12 June 1943
Bf-109 (serial 14237, pilot killed) shot down by submarine chasers MO-131 and MO-136. MO-131 suffered damages during the attack
There were more cutters - SKA Nrs. 211 and 212. They were damaged, 1 sailor killed and 8 wounded.
lupodimare89 wrote: 18 June 1943
Fw-190 (serial 135488) crashed after accidentally touching the mast of motorboat OS-4.
Fw-190 (serial 135528) shot down by anti-aircraft fire from auxiliary patrol ship Priliv (I read on another sources shot-down by motorboat Chelyuskinets; Mikhail Zefirov&Nikolay Bazhenov state it was Priliv.
Looks like both cutters was unarmed. Soviet side make conclusion that planes was hit by splinters their own bombs.
lupodimare89 wrote: 18 August 1943
Bf-109 (serial 15597, pilot Christian Stolz MIA) shot down by auxiliary patrol boats n°9 or n°42 (Germans disprove the claim of multiple victories by Soviet aircrafts).
Previously same boats hit Fw-190 (serial 2167, damage at 10%)
Both ships lost alongside motorboat PMB-61.
Also 4 "Hurricane" and 3 Yak-1 fighters shot-down.
Stolz was shot down by flak near Louhi, far south from any ships of Northern fleet. So only damaged Fw-190 can be victim of ships flak, however, there was 11 claims by fighters. Btw attacked was SKA Nrs. 211 and 222, not 9 and 42. 222 was sunk, 211 seriously damaged.
lupodimare89 wrote: 23 October 1943
Seaplane BV-138 (3(F)/SAGr130, serial 0135), on sea with troubles was captured by Soviet hydrographic vessel Mgla (5 pow, made no resistance).
Soviet destroyer Zhguchiy attempted to tow the seaplane, but due weather it sunk (1 died while attempting to prevent sinking).
Error! This happen in 1944!

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 07 May 2018 13:31

Thank for your corrections!

(Especially for identity of ships of 18 August, that was maddening me. And also for the last BV-138 loss).

To your knowledge there is some other significant ships success (full or shared) against planes that i missed for Arctic theatre?
I found nothing else for 1944 for example.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 07 May 2018 13:46

Oh also, i made a further check out (because ships were intereting) but I found that according sovnavyww2 both SKA Nrs. 211 and 222 were fully lost on the 18 August 1943 attack. As extra curious note, reading the descriptions (and looking photo of similar ones) both appears to be have mixed engine and sail propulsion.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 08 May 2018 03:12

I can say that SKA Nr. 222 was ex. drifter-boat TAIFUN and has hull number 42. PMB-61 also was named VPS-1, ex. drifter-boat OMUL.
SKA Nr. 211 after being damaged can reach Port Vladimir and there were dragged to shore for repair. She bore name NOKUEV and hull number 9. Both 211 and 222 have relatively good AA-armig: 1*20-mm, many 12.7-mm and 7.62-mm for 211 and many 12.7-mm and 7.62-mm for 222.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 08 May 2018 03:21

About more ship success - i've never do such extractions and tables, so i can't add anything for you.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 08 May 2018 09:19

Ok, no problem, and thanks for the extra info.

Moving to Baltic Sea. The same authors wrote another book covering it, but I enjoyed less this book because it seems less accurate in presenting events case-by-case and has more focus on general background.

My informations are then likely missing and or incomplete.



For 1941, here what i gathered (first ones, Raids over Kronstadt in September later).





23 June 1941
Ju-88 bomber (8./KG1, serial number 8260) shot down while attacking ships in Riga harbor.
Plane landed on belly, on ground and "recovered" by Soviets (I have no idea if it was just inspected, also no idea of fate of crew).
I failed to find even a general list of the warship present in harbor and if the victory was shared or claimed by ground flak/fighters.





23 August 1941
A German " reconnaissance aircraft" hit over Tallinn by cruiser Kirov and made a hard landing on Prangli Island, the crew captured.
Checking Luftwaffe losses around this date, i failed to identify a potential candidate. Description of the event is still peculiar and capture of crew make the claim more robust compared to most.
((As general note, and this was stressed cruiser Kirov 100mm AA guns were (according that author) the most effective anti-aircraft weapon possessed in the whole Baltic Sea theatre and Leningrad siege for the first year of war))




27-28 August 1941
Tallin Evacuation
Ju-88 bomber (KGr.806, n°2505, crew survived) shot down apparently by combined fire from leader destroyers Leningrad and Minsk (Minsk already damaged by mine).
German bomber He-111 (1./KG4, serial 3521) suffered 30% damages after being hit by anti-aircraft fire and subsequent hard landing
Other 3 He-111 suffered minor damages: it is impossible to define the ship who damaged the plane but Heinkel bombers focused on transports.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by igorr » 08 May 2018 09:38

Sorry, i can't help you with Baltic.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by andrus » 08 May 2018 22:05

lupodimare89 wrote: 27-28 August 1941
Tallin Evacuation
Ju-88 bomber (KGr.806, n°2505, crew survived) shot down apparently by combined fire from leader destroyers Leningrad and Minsk (Minsk already damaged by mine).
on 29th, one person ((Bs) Gefr. Kurt Meinhardt) killed.

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Re: Soviet Naval Battles

Post by lupodimare89 » 10 May 2018 09:37

No worry igor.
I am going to adds the rest of the data i have gathered as starting point for possible interest/research of others.
Thanks for the extra info andrus! If you have or will have others, feels free to share


Baltic Sea:

September Raids:
Luftwaffe specifically targeted the Soviet Navy in Kronstadt aiming at the larger ships, after the successful shelling of advancing enemy troops on Leningrad front. Overhall the raids come late even if Germans temporarily sunk or disabled a number of ships, but most repaired and some contributed again during 1944 final breaking of Leningrad siege. It is worth to say that after the first attempts to take the city, Germans moved on imposing siege to the famous siege of the city.


16 September 1941
Ju-87 dive bomber shot down (Nr. 5934, 9./StG.2, crew KIA).
Likely by anti-aircraft fire from battleship Marat (3 planes claimed).
(at the time, battleships possessed 76mm: the second most advanced AA weapon of the area, after the effective 100mm of Kirov cruiser).


19 September 1941
He-111 bomber suffered 40% damages (I have no data over it)
The group was launched bombs from high altitude aiming at ships but missing.
Most likely cause of damage was fire from cruiser Kirov, with her advanced 100mm anti-aircraft guns.


21 Septmeber 1941
Large Air Raid over Kronstadt.
Ju-87 bomber (pilot: Ernst Kupfer, commander of 7th Squadron StG2) serious damage due anti-aircraft fire just after striking and damaging the destroyer Grozyashchiy.
During that same air-raid, battleship Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya damaged, destroyer Steregushchy sunk (recovered in 1944) alongside merchant S. A. Levanevskiy (2333 GRT).
Soviet aircrafts were ineffective, losing 3 fighters: one LaGG-3 (pilot I.M. Umansky) was actually shot down by the anti-aircraft fire from one warship (still unidentified): a case of friendly fire shooting down by ship.
A subsequent strike of fighter-bombers caused more losses to Germans.
German fighter-bomber Bf-109 (serial n°4199, 9./JG 27, pilot Uffz. Ewald Hacker WIA) was hit hit by anti-aircraft fire after striking destroyer Gordyi. German fighter bomber Bf-109 (serial n°3639, 9./JG 27, pilot Joachim Hinkelmann) suffered the very same fate: both planes crashed on sea and pilots recovered by German He-59 seaplanes. Gordyi suffered damages but did not sunk.
Subsequent raids on the very same day caused damages to destroyers Silnyi and Slavnyi, however anti-aircraft fire from battleship Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya damaged a German Ju-87 bomber (pilot: Ernst Kupfer, commander of 7th Squadron StG2): the pilot was manning a second plane just few hours after his first plane was damaged while attacking Grozyashchiy!


22 September 1941
Large Air Raid over Kronstadt.
bomber Ju-88 (serial n°2153, 4th squadron KG77) damaged by anti-aircraft fire while at 4000 meters of altitude. 1 crewmember killed, while plane returned to airfield with 15% damages. Difficult to establish how plane was damaged.
During this raid occurred the famous strike on Battleship Marat: “Stuka” bombers aimed at battleship Marat with specially delivered 1000kg heavy bombs: two of the most expert German pilots (Ernst-Siegfried Steen and Hans-Ulrich Rudel) attacked together and Rudel scored a direct hit, killing 326 sailors (including commander). The whole bow of battleship Marat (including the forward turret) was ripped off.
Three I-16 attempted to intercept the two “Stuka”, but two of them were indeed shot-down by anti-aircraft artillery in friendly fire accident (unclear, but likely from Marat), while the third one was shot down by Bf-109 fighter (two pilots killed, one wounded). Cruiser Kirov received further damage, and one unexploded aerial bomb was even thrown manually overboard.
Battleship Marat was quite rightfully a big propaganda boost for the Germans: the ship never regained ability of sail however it was not completely written off and was retained as static unit (at first with two, and then with the third main turret operative).


23 September 1941
Large Air Raid over Kronstadt.
Ernst-Siegfried Steen attempted to repeat the feat against cruiser Kirov but paid with his life.
His Ju-87 dive bomber (Nr. 5836, Stab III./St.G. 2, pilot Ernst-Siegfried Steen and co-pilot KIA) was likely hit by 100mm AA fragments or shell from the cruiser Kirov during the attack dive and splashed near the ship, the bomb nearly missing the Kirov.
Curiosily, he manned the same plane used by Hans-Ulrich Rudel to hit Marat (and with Rudel's co-pilot).
German bomber Ju-88 (serial n°4330, pilot Joachim Gunther, Stab I./KG77), suffering 20% damages due anti-aircraft fire or Soviet fighter (1 wounded).
Leader destroyer Minsk damaged during one of the final attacks and partially sunk (recovered in 1943).


27 September 1941
Large Air Raid over Kronstadt.
German Ju-87 bomber (serial° 5735, pilot: Ernst Kupfer, commander of 7th Squadron StG2) hit by anti-aircraft fire and crashed in a forest while flying back to airstrip. Both crewmembers suffered wounds: this was the third different “Stuka” manned by Kupfer being hit by Soviet flak while raiding Kronstadt. This time it is equally impossible to define who hit the plane, but anti-aircraft fire from ship seems more likely due higher efficiency but also fighters claimed it. NOTE: There is some confusion over this loss, it was either 40% damage or full loss.
During the raid, Hans-Ulrich Rudel on his “Stuka” hit battleship Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya but the 1000kg bomb did not explode.


After September raids, Soviet Navy relocated their ships from Kronstadt to Leningrad.

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