Soviet armoured trains

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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 15 Dec 2020 21:43

ArmchairSamura wrote
I cannot say where these photos originated. I only came across them on Russian forums and saved them in my attempts to categorize Russian armored trains. Forgive me. :oops:

I believe the first photo is Bronedrezyna D-38 while the second is D-37. I do not know the third. The fourth from what I can tell is a Modernyzovannaya Bronedrezyna AT-45.
Hi ArmchairSamurai

Do you know if the Bronedrezyna D-38 and D-37 draisines were only prototypes or were serial manufactured ?

Sturm78

ArmchairSamurai
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by ArmchairSamurai » 10 Jan 2021 04:49

Sturm78 wrote:
15 Dec 2020 21:43
ArmchairSamura wrote
I cannot say where these photos originated. I only came across them on Russian forums and saved them in my attempts to categorize Russian armored trains. Forgive me. :oops:

I believe the first photo is Bronedrezyna D-38 while the second is D-37. I do not know the third. The fourth from what I can tell is a Modernyzovannaya Bronedrezyna AT-45.
Hi ArmchairSamurai

Do you know if the Bronedrezyna D-38 and D-37 draisines were only prototypes or were serial manufactured ?

Sturm78
As far as I can tell, the D-38 draisine proved to underperform, as it was overweight and the gun-platform was unsatisfactory. The D-37 itself I cannot find anything on, though I imagine it too suffered the same fate given only the one photo exists and how the DT-45 filled the role it was designed for.

I did find this recently, which I think may be yet another variation of the type. Its fate is likely similar.

Image
There are three sorts of people; those who are alive, those who are dead, and those who are at sea.

Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 10 Dec 2021 00:08

Hi all,

An image from Ebay:

Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 02 Jun 2022 21:26

Hi all,

An image from Ebay. According to photo caption, Soviet armoured train. Any idea ?

Sturm78
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Statist
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Statist » 11 Jun 2022 14:48

Sturm78 wrote:
02 Jun 2022 21:26
Hi all,

An image from Ebay. According to photo caption, Soviet armoured train. Any idea ?

Sturm78
This is one of two Soviets armored trains built in Tallinn in 1941 for narrow gauge using.
A link to an article about these armored trains is given below (in Russian)
https://radio-rhodesia.livejournal.com/533177.html
Tallinn.jpg
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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 25 Jun 2022 21:12

Thank you very much for your help, Statist .... :wink:

Regards
Sturm78

Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 17 Jul 2022 10:15

Hi all,

Can somebody identify the exact model of this Soviet armoured artillery railcar ?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 18 Jan 2023 15:22

Nobody for my last image ?

Well, here another image from Ebay. Can somebody identify the model of this armoured railcar ??

Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 08 Feb 2023 20:50

Nobody ?? :(

Well, here another image from Ebay. I think a Soviet armoured locomotive and tender KO

Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 25 Sep 2023 21:02

Hi all,

Does somebody have any information about this Soviet armoured railcar ??

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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Chronofus
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Chronofus » 03 Oct 2023 23:02

Here you go, a nice story post about this wagon/train:

https://kv-bear.livejournal.com/458008.html

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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Chronofus » 05 Oct 2023 10:57

Updated info:
Here you go, a nice story post about this wagon of the armoured train BePo-52/BePo-662 (according to the link), where it was repurposed by the axis as a track guarding train:

https://kv-bear.livejournal.com/458008.html

Parts of the conversation in the comments of the link appear to talk about the BePo-51 and BePo-52 that were destroyed in September 1941. By looking at the pics of the damaged wagons, some work was done between the photos to remove the lower armour and make it ready to be reseated on the rails.

The following is according to the Tankfront website, though some details are inconsistent, but here’s a Google translation I’ve retouched slightly to suit a document on armoured trains I’ve been tinkering with along with one on the Polish army):

At the end of November 1941 the 6th ODBP received new equipment manufactured in Moscow, as the old ones had been destroyed in the battle around the Makoshino bridge in September.

Construction of the artillery wagons for these two trains was done by placing tank hulls (assuming without the running gear) on the base flat wagon, and then sheeting over the hulls with the outer frame, a situation which caused issues with the crew making good use of their working space, and explains why the machine guns on the sides are located where they are. The guns in all turrets were badly worn out.

Armored Train No. 1 “Fascism Fighter” «Истребитель фашизма» - BePo-51
Built at the Moscow-Passenger Depot of the Lenin and Stalin railway workshops (Google miss translate that I haven’t sorted), and consisted of an armored steam locomotive Ov No.4748 with an air defense tower (12-15mm non hardened armor) and two artillery wagons - the first a 2 axle flat car with two 45 mm guns (guns replaced December 1941) in T26 tank turrets (side thickness 45 mm) and the second a 2 axle flat car with turrets from the T-28 tank (machine gun and gun) and side thickness 17 mm.

For anti air defence, the division’s workers built 2 wagons in October/November 1941. The first was a 2 axle flat car with a central casement made of 24mm armour for a 37mm AA gun. The second was a four axle AA wagon with a 76mmL55 M1931 AA gun in a central casement of 18-30mm armour, plus Maxim HMGs (either a dual or quad mount?) and a 45mmL46 pedestal mount AA gun (21-K) both fitted at either end of the wagon.

In the spring of 1942, another 2 axle AA wagon was built by the division’s workers, armed with a quad Maxim mount and a 37mmL67 M1939 (61-K) AA gun, most likely in a standard 2 casement layout.

Armoured Train Number 2 “Let’s Destroy the Enemy.” «Уничтожим врага» - BePo-52
Built at the Lyublino and Ilyicha depots of the Western Railway. It included an armored locomotive Ov with an air defense turret (non-hardened 30-40mm armor), a four-axle armored platform (30mm armor) with turrets from a T-28 tank (guns were replaced June 1942), and a two-axle armored platform (30 mm armor) with two T-26 tanks with 45 mm guns (guns were replaced in December 1941).

For anti air defence, the division’s workers built 2 wagons in October/November 1941. The first was a 2 axle flat car with a casement made of 24mm armour which housed a 37mm AA gun. The second was a four axle AA wagon with a 76mmL55 M1931 AA gun in a central casement of 18-30mm armour, plus Maxim HMGs (either a dual or quad mount?) fitted at one end of the wagon.

In the spring of 1942, another 2 axle AA wagon was built by the division’s workers, armed with two DShK in a standard 2 casement layout.

Operational Use:

From the first days of December 1941, the 6th ODBP operated jointly with the 331st Rifle Division of the 20th Army of the Western Front in the Khlebnikovo - Lobnya - Krasnaya Polyana area, from January 21 to February 23, 1942 it was in reserve, and then until the beginning of 1943 - as part of the 33rd army, supporting the actions of the 53rd, 160th and 222nd rifle divisions in the area of ​​the Ugryumovo junction.

On March 31, 1942, supporting units of the 277th Infantry Division, Bepo-51 derailed due to railway track being broken by German artillery. As a result, the armored steam locomotive OV No. 485 and four artillery armored platforms were damaged. After reinstatement, the whole train was sent to Kaluga for repairs.

Based on the order of the head of the GBTU KA No. 1109420, dated 5th December 1942, the armored trains received new numbers: BePo-51 became BePo-646, and BePo-52 became BePo-662.

From January 1 to March 1, 1943, the division supported units of the 33rd Army advancing in the direction of Vyazma, destroying two houses with German soldiers, two dugouts, three bunkers, suppressed the fire of three artillery and mortar batteries, and scattered up to a company of infantry,

From the 1st of March, the division was placed at the disposal of the 50th Army.

In the spring of 1943, BePo-646 was replaced with new equipment of the BP-43 type. It consisted of the armored steam locomotive Op No. 485, artillery armored platforms No. 42-629, 42-630, 42-631 and 42-632, air defense platform-4 (I assume the original author intended 4 platforms).

In December 1943, the 6th ODBP, part of the 49th Army, concentrated on the Roslavl station. The unit remained here until May 25, 1944, after which it became part of the 33rd Army of the 2nd Belorussian Front. By this time, BePo-662 also received new materiel of the BP-43 type, though the replacement locomotive type is unclear.

This would imply the wagon you have pictured was lost in 1943/44, as the train was replaced then, and the Romanians/Germans took it over and repaired it. The commentary in the above link relating to Barysaw implies to me it was captured early 1943 and makes it from BePo-51 but this doesn't tally at all. It wasn't until the of 1943 that Pz IIIs were assigned to German rail wagon duties AFAIK, and the fact you can see it's a 4 axle wagon lends it to being the BePo-52 wagon.

Incidentally, the 2nd pic on the link shows a pristine train with 2x T26 armed wagons with no camo paint, so perhaps this was when first delivered, and then the wagons were split with the 2 artillery wagons from the other construction depot?

Incidentally UM-MT / Unimodels make a 1/72 model of this style, though with a few errors, as shown in this box art pic:
BP52 FascismFighter.jpg
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Chronofus
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Chronofus » 07 Oct 2023 12:06

I happened to be doing some research on the Marshall Budyony armoured train shown earlier in this topic, so I thought I'd post up my quick notes based on various websites and a small amount of extra research I added to it so I could try and figure out some gaming scenarios.
1536556406142736808.jpg
To begin here's a general pic of a similar NKPS-42 type train for context. Each turret was armed with a 76.2mm gun and a DT MG (someone point out where it's fitted in this local build of the NKPS-42, maybe it was omitted?), with 2x DT MGs in each long side of the hull. The locomotive was also armed with a quad Maxim AA mount.

The construction of the train was sanctioned by the Commander-in-Chief of the South Western Direction, Marshal S. Budyonny. On 20/7/1941, he ordered the head of the Poltava Locomotive Repair Plant, T. Gaevoy, to build an armored train. The formation of the crew was entrusted to the head of the Poltava Tractor School, Colonel Sadovsky. On 14/8/1941, Colonel Sadovsky announced the formation of armored train No. 1, which was given the name “Marshal Budyonny”. It was commanded by Captain Yablonsky with a crew of 104.

From the 18/8/1941 it was tasked with guarding the bridge over the Psel, west of the Potoki station, as well as the Dnieper crossings near Kremenchug further west of Potoki.

On 21-22/8/1941 it accompanied Marshal Budyonny on his inspection trips to the stations of Novomoskovsk, Pavlograd and Sinelnikovo.

On 31/8/1941, the German 3rd Corps of the 1st Panzer Group, and the 52nd Army Corps of the 17th Army, crossed the Dniepr around Kremenchug to then launch an attack toward Poltava. For three days, the armored train conducted artillery shelling of the enemy on the northern outskirts of the village of Potoki in support of the defensive actions of the Soviet 40th Army. On the evening of 4/9/1941 at Haleshchyna station, the commander of the armored train received an order to take a platoon of paratroopers of the 2nd Airborne Corps to the Potoki station at Kyyashky. At the western entrance to this station the armored train was ambushed. The Germans blew up the track, causing the armored locomotive and the first artillery wagon to tilt so that the guns could not fire. Defensive fire was conducted by the second artillery wagon commanded by Lieutenant A.I. Kozyr. During the battle, the ammunition on the rear armored platform detonated catastrophically, causing the crew to ultimately abandon the remains of the train. The remaining 30 crew who escaped the encirclement arrived in Kharkov on 14/9/1941 and joined the armoured train “For the Motherland!”

The remains of the train were left in roughly place, but out of the way, until the Soviets recaptured the area in 1943. The remains were smeltered down for reuse.

I assume the camouflage pattern is black over olive drab.

Here is a collection of German images of the destroyed train.
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Chronofus
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Chronofus » 07 Oct 2023 12:18

More images of destruction
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Chronofus
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Re: Soviet armoured trains

Post by Chronofus » 15 Oct 2023 13:16

That's another view of the locomotive from Marshall Budyony.

This image is another artillery wagon view of the Marshall
Foto-Soldaten-der-Wehrmacht-an-einem-Panzerzug-Wrack-an-der-Ostfront-1941-1.jpg
Sturm78 wrote:
08 Feb 2023 20:50
Nobody ?? :(

Well, here another image from Ebay. I think a Soviet armoured locomotive and tender KO

Sturm78
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