Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

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xsli
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Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by xsli » 31 Oct 2017 16:34

Frequently I saw pictures of German boy soldiers at the end of the War, and there are good information in [Germany and the 2nd World War] about German human resources and conscription age in war time.

Yet, I remember only seeing one or two pictures of red-army boy soldiers. And I searched web yet found few sources with useful numbers on manpower reserve. Yes red army suffered tremendous losses in prior years, but at end of war it still boasts ~10 m soldiers. My thinking is that there are considerable young (say, below 17) in the red army, but the percentage should be less since it recruited a large number of soldiers from formerly occupied Russia/Belorussia/Ukraine. Although many male adults in those areas were taken away as laborers, the situation should still be better than Germany in the last years - I might be wrong on this. :D

Some info found on the web:

1941 3 quarter: 6,362,000 recruits taken on strength
1941 4 quarter: 1,875,000 recruits taken on strength
1942 1 quarter: 2,617,000 recruits taken on strength
1942 2 quarter: 1,372,000 recruits taken on strength
1942 3 quarter: 1,020,000 recruits taken on strength
1942 4 quarter: 970,000 recruits taken on strength
1943 1 quarter: 1,564,000 recruits taken on strength -> effect of territorial gains during winter fighting
1943 2 quarter: 965,000 recruits taken on strength
1943 3 quarter: 488,000 recruits taken on strength -> USSR effectively down to new age classes and combing outs
1943 4 quarter: 1,393,000 recruits taken on strength -> effect of retaking the East bank Ukraine

In total, in 1944, 1,156,727 people were drafted. Age of 16-17 years group were called, they served in "auxiliary" units as signalmen , sappers , border guards and other military specialists carried out combat missions.

Still, few info on how many of the 16-17 group served in 44-45. And if the war continues, how many recruits can red-army get in 1945 and 1946?

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 31 Oct 2017 21:53

xsli wrote: Some info found on the web:
What is the source exactly? I don't remember seeing this before.
Regarding age classes: the class of 1922 and 1923 were called up in 1941, the classes of 1924 and 1925 - in 1942, 1926 - end of 1943, 1927 - end of 1944. Usually there were special stipulations to assign young recruits to training units or Navy/NKVD/Far East forces. Men younger than 17 were definitely a relatively rare case.

xsli
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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by xsli » 01 Nov 2017 02:35

Here: /viewtopic.php?t=198614, and http://historum.com/war-military-histor ... -45-a.html

The drafting age in Soviet internal aside, I believe there are plenty recruited in newly liberated territory - is there an age limit for these recruits? Of course, faking age to enlist existed in most countries.
Art wrote:
xsli wrote: Some info found on the web:
What is the source exactly? I don't remember seeing this before.
Regarding age classes: the class of 1922 and 1923 were called up in 1941, the classes of 1924 and 1925 - in 1942, 1926 - end of 1943, 1927 - end of 1944. Usually there were special stipulations to assign young recruits to training units or Navy/NKVD/Far East forces. Men younger than 17 were definitely a relatively rare case.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 01 Nov 2017 20:56

xsli wrote: The drafting age in Soviet internal aside, I believe there are plenty recruited in newly liberated territory - is there an age limit for these recruits?
The usual stipulation was the age from 17 years old and on. First established in a Stavka's order from 9 February 1942:
http://www.istmira.ru/knigi-vtoraya-mir ... 6-5-2.html
Seems like recruitment "in the field" so to say could be carried out in quite a lax manner. At least complains about a lack of formal registration and rosters, recruits not supplied with military uniform etc were quite common. But again, I believe, men younger than 17 in army's ranks would be rather an exception.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 05 Nov 2017 17:06

xsli wrote: Some info found on the web:
From what I see those numbers are estimates made with an indirect and approximate method. Actually there are official stats on numbers inducted during the war:
22.6.41-1.5.42 - 15 384 837
1.5.42-31.12.42 - 5 328 392
1.1.-31.12.43 - 5 901 436
1.1.-31.12.44 - 4 646 250
1.1.-1.5.45 - 551 243
Total 31 812 158 men including 2 237 000 cases of double counting (men previously reported missing in action or discharged for medical reasons)
Of them younger age classes:
born in 1922-23 - 2 221 969 total
1924 - 1 142 778
1925 - 1 168 866
1926 - 1 164 263
1927 - 870 183
Total 6 568 059

xsli
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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by xsli » 10 Nov 2017 23:33

Thanks Art!

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tramonte
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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by tramonte » 06 May 2018 13:04

So 31 812 158 between 22.6-41 and 1.5.45 but only 6 568 059 age class of 1922-27.

Let's think about how realistic those figures really are. If following age groups of 1898-1921 (24) the figures are average 31 812 158/24 = 1 325 506
While those of 1922-27 (6) average is: 6 568 059/6 = 1 094 676

I won't buy those figures. It's well known fact that during war time the most haunted age groups are very young men. Besides in USSR age groups of 1922-1927 were remarkable big while those born before and during Revolution and Civil War deceased great numbers before 1941. Death rate was extremely high among those born in 1900-1921.

Germans recruited average 520 000 (ethnic Germans) per every age group (like 1922-26). In Soviet Union those age groups have been at least 3.5 times bigger because birth rate was much higher in USSR during 1922-28 than in Weimar Germany.

Here are figures of males of age groups according to Wikipedia in 1941 USSR:

15–19 11 092 000 (average 2 218 400)
20–34 24 948 000 (average 1 663 200)
35–49 18 497 000 (average 1 233 133)

As everybody here can see: the biggest age groups are those born after 1921 while those born before 1906 were almost 50% smaller. Let's remember also that birth rate went down sharply during 1930's so it's quite obvious male age groups of 1922-28 have been remarkable big, bigger than 2.2 million in 1941. It's hardly true to think that male age groups of 1900-1921 were 90% recruited while male groups of 1922-27 less than 50%. I just won't buy those figures.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 06 May 2018 16:39

The class of 1927 was called only in part. Then you should consider that younger classes were not subject to initial mobilization and for this reason a large part stayed on occupied territories. Schadenko estimated in early 1943 that lost with occupied territories were 513 000 men from 1922-23 and 965 000 from 1924-25 classes.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Richard Anderson » 06 May 2018 21:15

Art wrote:The class of 1927 was called only in part. Then you should consider that younger classes were not subject to initial mobilization and for this reason a large part stayed on occupied territories. Schadenko estimated in early 1943 that lost with occupied territories were 513 000 men from 1922-23 and 965 000 from 1924-25 classes.
Just curious, why was the 1924-1925 class nearly twice the size as the 1922-1933 one?
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 07 May 2018 08:01

Losses from the class, not the class itself. Call-up of classes of 1923-23 started already in the autumn of 1941 including territories that were lost by the end of 1942, so it sounds natural that more men were conscripted.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Richard Anderson » 07 May 2018 08:35

Art wrote:Losses from the class, not the class itself. Call-up of classes of 1923-23 started already in the autumn of 1941 including territories that were lost by the end of 1942, so it sounds natural that more men were conscripted.
Thank you that makes perfect sense now.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 09 Oct 2019 10:42

Recorded casualties by year of birth as % of the total military casualties (calculated by processing records at https://obd-memorial.ru). Original records contain some numbers of typos, but I assume that they are of small significance.

1928 0.02% (3.97)
1927 0.11 (3.77)
1926 2.37 (4.51)
1925 4.61 (4.00)
1924 5.06 (3.71)
1923 5.6 (3.39)
1922 4.8 (2.94)
1921 3.86 (2.54)
1920 3.41 (2.54)
1919 3.27 (2.16)
1918 3.72 (2.73)
1917 2.48 (1.89)
1916 2.83 (2.24)
1915 3.38 (2.58)
1914 4.01 (3.09)
1913 3.77 (3.09)
1912 4.08 (3.15)
1911 3.61 (2.83)
1910 3.79 (3.25)
1909 3.43 (2.45)
1908 3.35 (2.85)
1907 3.38 (2.41)
1906 3.15 (2.69)
1905 2.91 (2.35)
1904 2.94 (2.31)
1903 2.8 (2.3)
1902 2.6 (2.05)
1901 1.94 (1.53)
1900 2.12 (2.31)
1899 1.52 (1.64)
1898 1.42 (1.75)
1897 1.24 (1.31)
1896 0.9 (1.55)
1895 0.61 (1.36)
1894 0.36 (1.22)
1893 0.26 (1.38)
1892 0.16 (1.15)
1891 0.06 (0.96)
1890 0.027 (1.21)
1889 0.015 (0.93)
1888 0.008 (1.27)
1887 0.005 (0.83)
1886 0.003 (0.96)
1885 0.002 (0.87)

In () is the % of respective age cohorts in the total male population born 1885-1928 registered in the USSR census of 1939. The effect of limited conscription of older ages (born before 1900) is seen rather clearly.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 10 Oct 2019 09:04

Statistics on repatriated Soviet POWs by age as of 1 March 1946 (from V. Zemskov, 2016)

11-16 years - 16 (0.001%)
17-21 - 133 126 (8.48%)
22-25 - 342 662 (21.83%)
26-30 - 369 736 (23.55%)
31-35 - 328 735 (20.94%)
36-40 - 203 879 (12.99%)
41-45 - 132 397 (8.44%)
46-50 - 43 208 (2.75%)
>50 - 15 813 (1.01%)

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Stiltzkin » 10 Oct 2019 11:13

Statistics on repatriated Soviet POWs by age as of 1 March 1946 (from V. Zemskov, 2016)

11-16 years - 16 (0.001%)
17-21 - 133 126 (8.48%)
22-25 - 342 662 (21.83%)
26-30 - 369 736 (23.55%)
31-35 - 328 735 (20.94%)
36-40 - 203 879 (12.99%)
41-45 - 132 397 (8.44%)
46-50 - 43 208 (2.75%)
>50 - 15 813 (1.01%)
That is of limited suitability, as the survivability for the age groups (for POWs) is not equal.

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Re: Soviet manpower and red-army age in 1944-45

Post by Art » 10 Oct 2019 11:43

I would say many were captured 3 or 4 years before repatriation, in other words 3 or 4 years younger. Hence a relatively small number of younger men (21 or younger).

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