Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 05 Jun 2018 08:19


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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 05 Jun 2018 08:22

An and also from another thread:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... &p=2126345
In 1943 Luftwaffe dropped 300 000 tons of bombs on the Eastern Front vs 180 000 tons dropped by the Soviet air forces

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by mars » 05 Jun 2018 14:37

Art wrote:An and also from another thread:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... &p=2126345
In 1943 Luftwaffe dropped 300 000 tons of bombs on the Eastern Front vs 180 000 tons dropped by the Soviet air forces. Something I expected.
Art, could you explain why you said "Something I expected." ? Thanks!

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Alejandro_
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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Alejandro_ » 05 Jun 2018 16:14

Art, could you explain why you said "Something I expected." ? Thanks!
Soviet aviation focused on tactical aviation, and it's bombers had a lower payload than German equivalents.

Is there a link with tonnage dropped by the Soviet air forces for other years?

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 05 Jun 2018 18:49

Alejandro_ wrote: Is there a link with tonnage dropped by the Soviet air forces for other years?
There is a formerly classified statistical digest "Soviet Air Force in numbers" (1962) - a usual source of various stats on VVS
1941 - 66 371 tons
1942 - 152 015 tons
1943 - 181 801
1944 - 178 181
1945 - 117 900
Total 696 268 tons
http://stsokol.ru/vvs_tsifra/gl_1/1.16.html
That includes all branches, Navy's air arm inclusively.
Soviet aviation focused on tactical aviation, and it's bombers had a lower payload than German equivalents.
Surprising as it may seem out of 180 000 tons of bombs in 1943 about 80 000 were dropped by the Soviet Long-Range Bomber Force. Pretty large share of expenditure for other years as well.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 05 Jun 2018 18:55

mars wrote: Art, could you explain why you said "Something I expected." ? Thanks!
I mean that expected but I expected but didn't have hard data. Actually, I've just remembered that there were stats posted from other source (Groehler O. Geschichte des Luftkriegs 1910 bis 1980). Luftwaffe's dropped bombs in tons:
22.06-30.11.41 - 115 355
1.12.41-30.04.42 - 70 250
1.05-30.11.42 - 208 083
1.12.42-30.04.43 - 119 125
1.05-31.10.43 - 160 700
1.11.43-30.04.44 - 83 260
https://www.vif2ne.org/nvk/forum/2/arch ... 629777.htm
Which stands for the Eastern Front alone, I guess. Something close to 300 000 tons in 1943 again.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Alejandro_ » 06 Jun 2018 08:52

Art, many thanks for the links. I had seen translated tables for "Soviet Air Force in numbers" but now I have the original source.

In Dan Zamansky's Luftwaffe study there are data for Luftwaffe bombing in 1943:

Western Front: 50,979 tons
Eastern Front: 300,287 tons
Total: 351,266 tons
1943 - 181 801
1944 - 178 181
I find interesting that tonnage was higher in 1943 than 1944. Perhaps it is due to large offensives carried out in the latter, which required a lot of tactical support.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 11 Jun 2018 09:58

Ok, some little exercise with numbers. German ammunition expenditure on the Eastern Front in 1941 (22.06-31.12) from KTB OKW Vol.I by major types:

37-mm AT gun - 2 778 000
50-mm AT gun - 303 000
50-mm mortar - 2 977 000
81-mm mortar - 3 119 000
75-mm light infantry gun - 2 673 000
150-mm heavy infantry guns - 457 000
75-mm mountain gun 36 - 83 000
105-mm light field howitzer - 8 297 000
150-mm heavy field howitzer - 2 441 000
105-mm gun - 684 000
150-mm gun - 55 000
210-mm Morser (heavy howitzer) - 137 000

Characteristic numbers of weapons on the Eastern Front (from "Germany and the Second World War")
Image

Soviet ammunition expenditure in 1943 (from Isayev):

45-mm AT gun - 12 429 000
50-mm mortar - 11 207 000
82-mm mortar - 37 808 000
120-mm mortar - 10 887 000
76-mm regimental gun - 6 761 0000
76-mm divisional gun - 20 781 000
122-mm howitzer - 5 745 000
152-mm howitzer - 935 000
122-mm gun - 701 000
152-mm howitzer-gun - 2 364 000
203-mm howitzer - 217 000

Characteristic numbers of barrels on the front (August 1943):

45-mm AT gun - 21 256
50-mm mortar - 31 421
82-mm mortar - 43 015
120-mm mortar - 18 105
76-mm regimental gun - 7 339
76-mm divisional gun - 20 683
122-mm howitzer - 7 028
152-mm howitzer - 774
122-mm gun - 637
152-mm howitzer-gun - 2 775
203-mm howitzer - 549

From here average daily expenditures in rounds per day (German/Soviet)

37-mm AT - 1.4/45-mm AT - 1.7
50-mm AT - 1.5
50-mm mortar - 1.1/50-mm mortar 1.0
81-mm mortar - 1.8/82-mm mortar - 2.5
120-mm mortar - 1.7
75-mm infantry gun - 4.4/76-mm regimental gun - 2.6
150-mm infantry gun - 3.1
75-mm mountain gun - 6.0/76-mm divisional gun - 2.9
105-mm howitzer - 7.3/122-mm howitzer - 2.2
150-mm howitzer - 5.7/152-mm howitzer - 3.4
105-mm gun - 6.9/122-mm gun - 3.1
150-mm gun - 3.2/152-mm howitzer-gun - 3.4
210-mm Morser - 2.0/203-mm howitzer - 1.1

One should keep in mind that German expenditure in 1943 became considerably larger than in 1941, while the number of weapons didn't, accordingly expenditure per gun was probably twice as large as in 1941 which makes the difference even more conspicuous.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 11 Jun 2018 10:51

Characteristic expenditures in 1944.

German ammo expenditure (all fronts):

75-mm AT gun - 9 135 000
81-mm mortar - 24 183 000
120-mm mortar - 2 984 000
75-mm light infantry gun - 10 817 000
150-mm heavy infantry guns - 2 288 000
105-mm light field howitzer - 31 105 000
150-mm heavy field howitzer - 6 775 000
105-mm gun - 2 148 000
210-mm Morser - 508 000

Number of weapons available on October 1944 (from "Das Heer" by Müller-Hillebrand)

75-mm AT gun - 4 805
81-mm mortar - 14 900
120-mm mortar - 3 510
75-mm light infantry gun - 2 800
150-mm heavy infantry guns - 952
105-mm light field howitzer - 6 592
150-mm heavy field howitzer - 2 521
105-mm gun - 550
210-mm Morser - 300 (estimated)

Average expenditure (rounds per barrel per day)

75-mm AT gun - 5.2
81-mm mortar - 4.4
120-mm mortar - 2.3
75-mm light infantry gun - 10.6
150-mm heavy infantry guns - 6.6
105-mm light field howitzer - 12.9
150-mm heavy field howitzer - 7.3
105-mm gun - 10.7
210-mm Morser - 4.6

Numbers available stand for all fronts (including mostly passive like Norway and Balkans and also Replacement Army in Germany proper). So specific expenditures on the Eastern Front must be even higher than the numbers calculated above. In any case the increase in expenditure per barrel compared with 1941 is obvious. On the Soviet side expenditures per gun in 1944 were probably only marginally larger than in 1943.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 11 Jun 2018 11:10

And for comparison characteristic US ammo expenditure in Europe (rounds per barrel)
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/US ... ml#page446

60-mm mortar - 4.7
81-mm mortar - 7.8
105-mm howitzer - 19.3
155-mm howitzer - 13.2
4.5-inch gun - 6.2
155-mm gun - 4.8
8-inch gun - 4.3
8-inch howitzer - 13.2
240-mm howitzer - 12.9

So even higher rates of expenditures for field howitzer (especially heavy) than in the German Heer.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Stiltzkin » 07 Oct 2018 17:23

Just a short complement to this thread:
The expenditure of a Division (that is, standardized to 10-12,000 men) is about 18 tons for the US (36-38 total), 13-15 for Germany and approx. 5 tons for the USSR - in good accordance to per capita GDPs and steel allocations.
If we observe the daily consumption of ammunition above 75mm+ (including mortars for US) for all belligerents to (bloody) casualties inflicted, this will result in the following shots/cas ratio:

Wehrmacht (44) vis USSR 12, vis US 71 or 15,000 and over 1,200 casualties per day (1155, 317 to total cas per daily consumption per Div)
USSR (44) vis Wehrmacht 66 or 4,228 casualties inflicted per day (770 TcasDiv/Cons)
US (44-45) vis Wehrmacht 119 or more than 1,000 casualties a day (over 60 TcasDiv/Cons).*

The efficiency values are: Wehrmacht vis US 0.014 and 0.09 vis USSR, then SQRT[(Ea/Eb)] = 1.40 and 2.36 respectively.
Comparing this to the average CEVs for 1944, 1.16-1.6 for the MTO and ETO, 1.94-2.68 for the Eastern Front during these periods, should anyone still doubt them. This is a different approach, the same can be achieved with advance rates, there is a strong correlation between advancing and killing (high CoVar/Pears. and R²).

Losses are thus a function of munitions expenditure, the skill involved and the circumstances present at that time. Do note that diminishing returns occur, this becomes especially apparent and can be demonstrated by utilizting a COBD (constant elasticity of substitution production) function to project increased casualty infliction. Tripling the Soviet supply results in a non linear increase of casualty infliction (i.e. 1,543,229 combat losses for 1944 would increase to 2,688,093; a factor of 1.7). This is just a raw calculation, unadjusted to the conditions of the front (ceteris paribus).
*I do not possess exact losses for the Wehrmacht suffered against US forces, but I assumed that the vast majority of bloody casualties were inflicted by them.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by critical mass » 11 Nov 2018 10:02

I notice that power laws are in effect here.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Nov 2018 15:24

21st AG Ammo rates 1944-45. From Max Hastings book 'Overlord'.
Ammo Consumption 21 AG 1944-45 (1).jpg
Ammo Consumption 21 AG 1944-45 (2).jpg
Ammo Consumption 21 AG 1944-45 (5) jp.jpg
Ammo Consumption 21 AG 1944-45 (6) jp.jpg
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Last edited by Michael Kenny on 11 Nov 2018 16:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interesting thread on Ammunition consumption

Post by Art » 11 Nov 2018 16:33

Thanks, so, again, relatively small mortar ammunition consumption compared with "normal" artillery. Can I ask about the source?

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