Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
sboyd2kus
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 03:52
Location: Washington DC metro

Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019 02:08

In The Berlin Operation, the Soviet General Staff authors give a detailed 1945 OB of the Dniepr Flotilla operating on the Oder in April (p 127 - 130), with one exception - no names. :x

I can make out most of the types based on armaments - except the 2nd and 3rd Brigade gunboats. The authors say there are approx 8 of them. Each is armed with two 100mm main guns, and weighing in at 250 -300 tn.
These would be pretty good candidates for Zheleznyakov (project SB-37) Monitors, except by 1944, only one existed - the Zheleznyakov! The rest having been sunk.

Proj 161 boats, and smaller 1124 and 1125 project BK are way too small for the tonnage and gun.

Anybody have a more detailed OB for what the other 7 "gunboats" were with the Dnieper Flotilla on 1944-45?

Thanks,
-Sharon

lupodimare89
Member
Posts: 462
Joined: 07 Mar 2013 01:32

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by lupodimare89 » 24 Feb 2019 10:15

Greetings, Zheleznyakov operated in Danube and never sailed to Germany!

There could be specialized russian text over it but i have not dig on them.
sovnavyww2.aiq.ru/ has some mistakes, but it's also an easy database for a start.

You have no more information about these alleged ships?
"100mm" is not that really a Soviet gunboat weapon (the only "100mm" i recall it's 100/54 B-34 an anti-aircraft weapon).
An alternative it's the "100/54 B-24BM" gun but not that common.


All that i know, it's 1124 and 1125 were the bulk of their force in terms of gunboats.
Here some listed by the site known to have been involved in the area:
project1124: BK-318, 319,320
project1125: BK-1,13, 14,41, 43,44, 93, 301,302,304, from 371 to 385




Question: the book give some hints/data about potential seizure/capture or destruction of enemy-civilian riverine crafts/barges/boats?

User avatar
Leo Niehorster
Member
Posts: 1380
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 22:07
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 24 Feb 2019 10:28

I can help a bit. I have the 14 april 1945 order of battle with all the units, most of the vessel numbers and types, but not all the commanders. [Your spelling may vary.]

Dnieper River Flotilla (RAdm V.V. Grogorev)
Direct units:
- 292 Separate Antiaircraft Battalion (Maj G.A. Melnikov)
- 293 Separate Antiaircraft Battalion (Cpt N.T. Fandov)

1st River Brigade (Capt S.M. Lalko)
- 1st Floating Battery Division (LtCdr I.A. Kuznetsov)
- 2nd Separate Guards Armored River Gunboat Division (LtCdr K.V. Maksimenko) [10× Type 1125]
- 3rd Minesweeper Division (Lt M.M. Kilchitskiy)

2nd River Brigade (Cdr A.A. Komarov)
- 2nd Floating Battery Division (Lt P.V. Vizalmirskiy)
- 1st River Gunboat Division (Lt I.M. Plekhov) [Donets, Narev, Pechora, Pripyat]
- 1st Separate Guards Armored River Gunboat Division (Lt I.P. Mikhajlov) [8× Type 1125)
- 4th Minesweeper Division (Lt(jg) A.M. Korolev)

3rd River Brigade (LtCdr N.M. Lupachev)
- 2nd Gunboat Division (LtCdr P.S. Zinin) [8× "armored river gunboats"]

The command vessels for the three brigades were: Berezina, Dvina, Picha, unfortunately, no mention of which of these three vessels was assigned to which brigade.

I have not shown minesweepers, the various motor patrol craft, motor missle boats, auxiliary vessels, etc..


Data kindly provided by Marek Suplat.

--
Leo
Information not passed on is lost.
URL: World War II Armed Forces

sboyd2kus
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 03:52
Location: Washington DC metro

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019 20:01

That is really helpful information, Leo and Lopudimare!
Those vessel names in the 2nd Rvr Bde/1st Rvr GB Div should be a big help.
The Russian Staff only had listed 2x 100mm guns, 1x 37mm gun, 1x DShK MG/ 250-300tn / speed 18kph ( not knots) .
Last edited by sboyd2kus on 24 Feb 2019 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

sboyd2kus
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 03:52
Location: Washington DC metro

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019 20:16

From sovnavyww2.aiq.ru/
Donets Class gunboats
(with a picture)
1. Donets
Displacement 440 T. Dimensions 47.8 x 5.2 x 1.1 M. Gau Diesel, 200 hp speed 10.8/7.5 knots. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1933 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 6.08.1948 G.

2. Narev
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 47 x 5 x 1.5 M. Gau Diesel, 180 hp Speed 13.5/9 knots, range of 1075 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1927, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

3. Pechora
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 43.5 x 4.9 x 1 M. Gau Diesel, 75 hp Speed 10.5/5.4 knots, range of 700 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1929 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 25.09.1964 G.

4. Pripyat
Displacement 359 T. Dimensions 49.8 x 5.2 x 1.4 m. Gau Diesel, 282 hp Speed 13.4/6.7 knots, range of 1430 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1929 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

sboyd2kus
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 03:52
Location: Washington DC metro

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019 20:27

And probable members of 2d Rvr GB Div of 3rd Rvr Bde:

5. Tobol
Displacement 568 T. Dimensions 48.6 x 6 x 1.6 M. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 7.5/5.4 knots, range of 1350 miles. Armament 2 x 100 mm, 1 x 37 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1917 captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 15.06.1948 G.

6. Yenisei
Displacement 368 T. Dimensions 51 x 6 x 1.7 m. Gau Diesel, 200 hp Speed 12.3/8.1 knots, range of 2300 miles. Armament 2 x 100 mm, 1 x 37 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1932, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 25.04.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. With the 30.03.1946 of the self-propelled barge, with the 20.09.1946 of the staff ship, with the 20.04.1951 of the city again reclassified into a self-propelled barge and listed as a member of the CHF. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 14.08.1956 G.

7. Lena
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 51 x 5.9 x 1.2 m. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 8.6/6.4 knots, range of 1620 miles. Armament 3 x 76.2 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1917 captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 15.06.1948 G.

8. OB
Displacement 450 T. Dimensions 50.8 x 5.5 x 1 M. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 7/3.7 knots, range of 1385 miles. Armament 3 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1922, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

sboyd2kus
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 03:52
Location: Washington DC metro

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019 20:36

The picture looks like 2x Lender Gun 76.2 AA pieces and 2x DShK MG
I wonder if they changed B-24M 100mm guns for the Lenders, and an obr 39 37mm gun for one of the DShK?

Or else a General Staff mistake?

Correction - the vessels 5-6 (Tobol, Yenisei) actually list the armament as per the GS!
So possibly they converted all of them.

User avatar
Leo Niehorster
Member
Posts: 1380
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 22:07
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 24 Feb 2019 21:47

Hmm, I have the following about the 3rd River Gunboat Division:
- 3rd Floating Battery Division
- 6th Patrol Craft Detachment
- 4th Motor Missile Boat [MK-112 - MK-115 (type DB)]
No mention of Tobol, Yenisei, Lena, OB in any of the three brigades.

--
Leo
Information not passed on is lost.
URL: World War II Armed Forces

lupodimare89
Member
Posts: 462
Joined: 07 Mar 2013 01:32

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by lupodimare89 » 26 Feb 2019 01:42

Big step to understand if these vessels truly took part in direct action in Oder/Berlin or were just assigned "on paper".

I should stress that the Dniepr Flotilla has been an interest from some time for me but i failed to find detailed Russian modern research of operations with stressed corroboration of potential riverine fighting.

One episode of importance it's the earlier Liberation of Pinsk (10 - 14 July 1944).
The Soviet Flotilla suffered losses for ground artillery, but seized and incorporated a large number of German riverine crafts (most apparently just abandoned by Germans without scuttling). Actual seizure-actions (with direct boarding/capture ship-to-ship) are unknown to me.

User avatar
Leo Niehorster
Member
Posts: 1380
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 22:07
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 28 Feb 2019 20:04

I have uploaded the information I have:
   Soviet Dniepr River Flotilla — 14 April 1945

Any amendments, enhancements, or corrections welcome.

--
Leo
Information not passed on is lost.
URL: World War II Armed Forces

Return to “The Soviet Union at War 1917-1945”