Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

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sboyd2kus
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Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#1

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019, 03:08

In The Berlin Operation, the Soviet General Staff authors give a detailed 1945 OB of the Dniepr Flotilla operating on the Oder in April (p 127 - 130), with one exception - no names. :x

I can make out most of the types based on armaments - except the 2nd and 3rd Brigade gunboats. The authors say there are approx 8 of them. Each is armed with two 100mm main guns, and weighing in at 250 -300 tn.
These would be pretty good candidates for Zheleznyakov (project SB-37) Monitors, except by 1944, only one existed - the Zheleznyakov! The rest having been sunk.

Proj 161 boats, and smaller 1124 and 1125 project BK are way too small for the tonnage and gun.

Anybody have a more detailed OB for what the other 7 "gunboats" were with the Dnieper Flotilla on 1944-45?

Thanks,
-Sharon

lupodimare89
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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#2

Post by lupodimare89 » 24 Feb 2019, 11:15

Greetings, Zheleznyakov operated in Danube and never sailed to Germany!

There could be specialized russian text over it but i have not dig on them.
sovnavyww2.aiq.ru/ has some mistakes, but it's also an easy database for a start.

You have no more information about these alleged ships?
"100mm" is not that really a Soviet gunboat weapon (the only "100mm" i recall it's 100/54 B-34 an anti-aircraft weapon).
An alternative it's the "100/54 B-24BM" gun but not that common.


All that i know, it's 1124 and 1125 were the bulk of their force in terms of gunboats.
Here some listed by the site known to have been involved in the area:
project1124: BK-318, 319,320
project1125: BK-1,13, 14,41, 43,44, 93, 301,302,304, from 371 to 385




Question: the book give some hints/data about potential seizure/capture or destruction of enemy-civilian riverine crafts/barges/boats?


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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#3

Post by Leo Niehorster » 24 Feb 2019, 11:28

I can help a bit. I have the 14 april 1945 order of battle with all the units, most of the vessel numbers and types, but not all the commanders. [Your spelling may vary.]

Dnieper River Flotilla (RAdm V.V. Grogorev)
Direct units:
- 292 Separate Antiaircraft Battalion (Maj G.A. Melnikov)
- 293 Separate Antiaircraft Battalion (Cpt N.T. Fandov)

1st River Brigade (Capt S.M. Lalko)
- 1st Floating Battery Division (LtCdr I.A. Kuznetsov)
- 2nd Separate Guards Armored River Gunboat Division (LtCdr K.V. Maksimenko) [10× Type 1125]
- 3rd Minesweeper Division (Lt M.M. Kilchitskiy)

2nd River Brigade (Cdr A.A. Komarov)
- 2nd Floating Battery Division (Lt P.V. Vizalmirskiy)
- 1st River Gunboat Division (Lt I.M. Plekhov) [Donets, Narev, Pechora, Pripyat]
- 1st Separate Guards Armored River Gunboat Division (Lt I.P. Mikhajlov) [8× Type 1125)
- 4th Minesweeper Division (Lt(jg) A.M. Korolev)

3rd River Brigade (LtCdr N.M. Lupachev)
- 2nd Gunboat Division (LtCdr P.S. Zinin) [8× "armored river gunboats"]

The command vessels for the three brigades were: Berezina, Dvina, Picha, unfortunately, no mention of which of these three vessels was assigned to which brigade.

I have not shown minesweepers, the various motor patrol craft, motor missle boats, auxiliary vessels, etc..


Data kindly provided by Marek Suplat.

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sboyd2kus
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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#4

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019, 21:01

That is really helpful information, Leo and Lopudimare!
Those vessel names in the 2nd Rvr Bde/1st Rvr GB Div should be a big help.
The Russian Staff only had listed 2x 100mm guns, 1x 37mm gun, 1x DShK MG/ 250-300tn / speed 18kph ( not knots) .
Last edited by sboyd2kus on 24 Feb 2019, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#5

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019, 21:16

From sovnavyww2.aiq.ru/
Donets Class gunboats
(with a picture)
1. Donets
Displacement 440 T. Dimensions 47.8 x 5.2 x 1.1 M. Gau Diesel, 200 hp speed 10.8/7.5 knots. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1933 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 6.08.1948 G.

2. Narev
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 47 x 5 x 1.5 M. Gau Diesel, 180 hp Speed 13.5/9 knots, range of 1075 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1927, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

3. Pechora
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 43.5 x 4.9 x 1 M. Gau Diesel, 75 hp Speed 10.5/5.4 knots, range of 700 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1929 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 25.09.1964 G.

4. Pripyat
Displacement 359 T. Dimensions 49.8 x 5.2 x 1.4 m. Gau Diesel, 282 hp Speed 13.4/6.7 knots, range of 1430 miles. Armament 2 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. It was built in 1929 in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 1.03.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#6

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019, 21:27

And probable members of 2d Rvr GB Div of 3rd Rvr Bde:

5. Tobol
Displacement 568 T. Dimensions 48.6 x 6 x 1.6 M. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 7.5/5.4 knots, range of 1350 miles. Armament 2 x 100 mm, 1 x 37 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1917 captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 15.06.1948 G.

6. Yenisei
Displacement 368 T. Dimensions 51 x 6 x 1.7 m. Gau Diesel, 200 hp Speed 12.3/8.1 knots, range of 2300 miles. Armament 2 x 100 mm, 1 x 37 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1932, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 25.04.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. With the 30.03.1946 of the self-propelled barge, with the 20.09.1946 of the staff ship, with the 20.04.1951 of the city again reclassified into a self-propelled barge and listed as a member of the CHF. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 14.08.1956 G.

7. Lena
Displacement 400 T. Dimensions 51 x 5.9 x 1.2 m. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 8.6/6.4 knots, range of 1620 miles. Armament 3 x 76.2 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1917 captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy 15.06.1948 G.

8. OB
Displacement 450 T. Dimensions 50.8 x 5.5 x 1 M. Gau Diesel, 150 hp Speed 7/3.7 knots, range of 1385 miles. Armament 3 x 76.2 mm, 2 x 12.7 mm machine gun. Crew 43 people.
Former German self-propelled barge. Built in 1922, captured in the autumn of 1944 on the territory of Poland as a trophy, converted into a river gunboat and 24.05.1945 G. Enlisted in the Dnieper Flotilla. Excluded from the lists of the Navy in 1951.

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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#7

Post by sboyd2kus » 24 Feb 2019, 21:36

The picture looks like 2x Lender Gun 76.2 AA pieces and 2x DShK MG
I wonder if they changed B-24M 100mm guns for the Lenders, and an obr 39 37mm gun for one of the DShK?

Or else a General Staff mistake?

Correction - the vessels 5-6 (Tobol, Yenisei) actually list the armament as per the GS!
So possibly they converted all of them.

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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#8

Post by Leo Niehorster » 24 Feb 2019, 22:47

Hmm, I have the following about the 3rd River Gunboat Division:
- 3rd Floating Battery Division
- 6th Patrol Craft Detachment
- 4th Motor Missile Boat [MK-112 - MK-115 (type DB)]
No mention of Tobol, Yenisei, Lena, OB in any of the three brigades.

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lupodimare89
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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#9

Post by lupodimare89 » 26 Feb 2019, 02:42

Big step to understand if these vessels truly took part in direct action in Oder/Berlin or were just assigned "on paper".

I should stress that the Dniepr Flotilla has been an interest from some time for me but i failed to find detailed Russian modern research of operations with stressed corroboration of potential riverine fighting.

One episode of importance it's the earlier Liberation of Pinsk (10 - 14 July 1944).
The Soviet Flotilla suffered losses for ground artillery, but seized and incorporated a large number of German riverine crafts (most apparently just abandoned by Germans without scuttling). Actual seizure-actions (with direct boarding/capture ship-to-ship) are unknown to me.

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Re: Dnieper Flotilla - 1944-45 OB

#10

Post by Leo Niehorster » 28 Feb 2019, 21:04

I have uploaded the information I have:
   Soviet Dniepr River Flotilla — 14 April 1945

Any amendments, enhancements, or corrections welcome.

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