The "division slice" of Red Army 1941-45?

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tramonte
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The "division slice" of Red Army 1941-45?

Post by tramonte » 18 Feb 2020 09:03

Division/Brigade table strengths were what they were during WW2 and they can be relatively "easily" studied using documents. It is important to remember that each of these divisions was supported by a much larger number of men assigned to various other units (corps, army, transport, supply, etc.). It has been claimed that on average, a British division was backed up by about 25,000 such men, and an American division was backed up by about 30,000 men. In both armies, the resulting total, known as a "division slice," was about 42,000 men. What are the Soviet figures of Red Army "division slice" during Great Patriotic War and how to analyze these units?

As a Finn i'm for instance interested in to know what were those claimed ~270,000 soldiers in Karelian Isthmus 9 June 1944 when actually divisions, brigades and regiments were hardly much more than 150,000- 160,000. What were organizations of those other maybe 110,000- 120,000 soldiers backing units but not been HQ artillery etc units?
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

Art
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Re: The "division slice" of Red Army 1941-45?

Post by Art » 18 Feb 2020 12:57

From another topic - average front line strength in 1943-45:

Rifle and airborne units (including rifle corps HQ and HQ units) - 2 673 000
Fortified regions - 81 000
Cavalry - 125 000
Armored - 432 000
GHQ artillery - 565 000
Rocket artillery - 96 000
Field anti-aircraft artillery - 168 000
Flame - 12 000
Signal (nondivisional) - 154 000
Engineer (nondivisional) - 191 000
Road maintenance and construction - 150 000
Motor transport - 96 000
Army Air force - 394 000
others (SoS, replacement, schools, PVO etc) - 1 319 000
Total 6 455 000 men
viewtopic.php?p=2062247#p2062247

Which corresponded to about 450-500 divisions.

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Re: The "division slice" of Red Army 1941-45?

Post by Art » 19 Feb 2020 13:13

tramonte wrote:
18 Feb 2020 09:03
As a Finn i'm for instance interested in to know what were those claimed ~270,000 soldiers in Karelian Isthmus 9 June 1944 when actually divisions, brigades and regiments were hardly much more than 150,000- 160,000.
For example, 23 Army as of 1 June 1944 (9 division with 6500-7000 men each and 2 fortified regions):
89 064 men in combat ground troops
3 311 - combat support troops (signals, engineers ...)
3 859 - supply and services
1 169 - replacement
249 - schools
Total 97 652
As a rule of thumb a Soviet field army normally had within 10 000 men in noncombat elements out of total strength of 70-100 000. On a front (army group) level about 2/3 personnel belonged to ground combat troops, and 1/3 to air forces and noncombat troops.

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Re: The "division slice" of Red Army 1941-45?

Post by Art » 29 Feb 2020 20:58

From a report on activity of the Karelian Front's staff's organization department 1.9.41-20.5.42:
Total strength of the Karelian Front:
1.9.41 - 130 579 men
1.5.42 - 289 514

Personnel breakdown:
on 1.9.41 - 66.6% in combat units, 15% - combat support units, 18.4% - services and rear.
1.5.42 - 72.5% - combat units, 11.3% - combat support, 16.2% services

Strength by elements on 1 May 1942:
Front and armies HQ and HQ units - 2.6%
Rifle units - 66.5%
GHQ artillery - 3.3%
Armored - 0.3%
Flying units - 1.1%
Antiaircraft - 2.9%
Engineer - 3.6%
Signals - 3.2%
Road construction - 1.3%
Road operation - 2.4%
Air force ground services - 5%
Medical - 3.4%
Veterinary - 0.3%
Others - 4.1%
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=262164863

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