Hard demographic data on RKKA?

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 17 Jan 2022 19:48

Composition of recruits drafted to the Red Army in 1927:
To the regular forces - workers - 17%, farm laborers - 4%, peasants - 71%, others - 8%
to the territorial army - workers - 13%, farm laborers - 2%, peasants - 80%, others - 5%

Party affiliation:
Regular forces - VKP(b) members and candidates - 3.38%, Komsomol members - 11.2%
Territorial army - VKP(b) members and candidates - 1.7%, Komsomol members - 5.34%

About 89% of recruits were literate, but only 36% had school certificate. 28% were considered sufficiently literate, but didn't complete even primary schools, 26% were partly literate "only marginally different from illiterate".

About 73% of all potential recruits were men employed in agriculture, only 5% were metal workers, 2% - construction workers, 0.16% - drivers of motor vehicles.

At the same time composition of the officers corps:
Commanding personnel (officers in the narrow sense): 50.8% VKP(b) members and candidates, 6.2% Komsomol members, 24.0% workers, 51.5% peasants, 24.5% others (*)
Administrative personnel - 19% VKP(b) members and candidates, 4.5% Komsomol members, 18% former workers, 44.9% peasants, 37.1% others
Political personnel - 95.2% VKP(b) members and candidates, 0.5% Komsomol members, 33.1% workers, 46.6% peasants, 20.3% others
Medical personnel - 7.4% VKP(b) members and candidates, 0.8% Komsomol members, 8.0% workers, 34.4% peasants, 57.6% others
Veterinary personnel - 8.6% VKP(b) members and candidates, 3.5% Komsmol members, 8.5% workers, 50.9% peasants, 40.6% others

(*) obviously an euphemism for middle or higher classes.

Education of commanding personnel:
Higher (university) - 1.6%, secondary school - 21.7%, basic - 76.7%
The education level consistently decreased throughout recent years (1924-1927).

About 19.6% of commanding personnel were former officers and generals of the old Russian Army (compared with 30.4 in 1924), 11.2% were former NCOs, 1.6% - former military officials, 10% were former privates, and 57.6% didn't serve in the old Army (compared with 38.9% in 1924).

Among front-line commanders the number of workers was 25.1%, peasants - 61.1%, "others" - 13.8%, whereas in higher staffs the % of "others" reached 50 or 60%. In similar way almost 2/3 of front-line officers were party of Komsomol members, whereas in staffs from regiment and above this proportion was about 30%.

Of all recent graduates of military schools 37% were former workers and about 82% were party members.

"Report on the state of the Red Army in 1927-28":
http://docs.historyrussia.org/ru/nodes/ ... /11/zoom/6

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 17 Jan 2022 20:05

Art wrote:
17 Jan 2022 19:48
Composition of recruits drafted to the Red Army in 1927:
To the regular forces - workers - 17%, farm laborers - 4%, peasants - 71%, others - 8%
to the territorial army - workers - 13%, farm laborers - 2%, peasants - 80%, others - 5%

Party affiliation:
Regular forces - VKP(b) members and candidates - 3.38%, Komsomol members - 11.2%
Territorial army - VKP(b) members and candidates - 1.7%, Komsomol members - 5.34%

About 89% of recruits were literate, but only 36% had school certificate. 28% were considered sufficiently literate, but didn't complete even primary schools, 26% were partly literate "only marginally different from illiterate".

About 73% of all potential recruits were men employed in agriculture, only 5% were metal workers, 2% - construction workers, 0.16% - drivers of motor vehicles.

"Report on the state of the Red Army in 1927-28":
http://docs.historyrussia.org/ru/nodes/ ... /11/zoom/6
That's an interesting divide in terms of occupations; the literacy rates as well. Is there a description of how "farm laborers" were different than "peasants"? Were "farm laborers" actually farm management, or something else?

For an interesting comparison, here is how the US National Park Service breaks down the prewar employment of the US forces and the (white) rebels in 1861-65:

Farmers comprised 48 percent of the civilian occupations in the Union. Others included mechanics, 24 percent; laborers, 16 percent; commercial, 5 percent; miscellaneous, 4 percent; and professional occupations, 3 percent.

Farmers comprised 69 percent of the civilian occupations in the Confederacy. Others included laborers, 9 percent; mechanics, 5.3 percent; commercial, 5 percent; professional occupations, 2.1 percent; and miscellaneous, 1.6 percent.


Source: https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/facts.htm

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 17 Jan 2022 20:29

daveshoup2MD wrote:
17 Jan 2022 20:05
That's an interesting divide in terms of occupations; the literacy rates as well. Is there a description of how "farm laborers" were different than "peasants"? Were "farm laborers" actually farm management, or something else?
Landless agricultural workers. Peasants = those had some productive property (land/cattle).

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 17 Jan 2022 20:55

Art wrote:
17 Jan 2022 20:29
daveshoup2MD wrote:
17 Jan 2022 20:05
That's an interesting divide in terms of occupations; the literacy rates as well. Is there a description of how "farm laborers" were different than "peasants"? Were "farm laborers" actually farm management, or something else?
Landless agricultural workers. Peasants = those had some productive property (land/cattle).
Got it; so "farm laborers" would have been the farmhands, so to speak, and "peasants" would have been (presumably, very) small farmers of one type or another?

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 17 Jan 2022 21:11

Correct.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 17 Jan 2022 21:33

Art wrote:
17 Jan 2022 21:11
Correct.
Spasibo.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 17 Jan 2022 22:05

Art wrote:
17 Jan 2022 19:48
Composition of recruits drafted to the Red Army in 1927:
To the regular forces - workers - 17%, farm laborers - 4%, peasants - 71%, others - 8%
to the territorial army - workers - 13%, farm laborers - 2%, peasants - 80%, others - 5%
Thanks Art. Between this and the 1926 report, we see confirmation of broadly expected demographic trends: (1) RKKA was predominantly peasant with low educational attainment, and (2) the more technical and higher service branches had a lower peasant proportion.

Is it your sense that these demographic reports continued through 1945 (and after)? It will be super interesting to see RKKA's demographics change as the SU industrializes and most interesting to see the wartime trends (if possible).
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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 17 Jan 2022 23:21

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
17 Jan 2022 22:05
Art wrote:
17 Jan 2022 19:48
Composition of recruits drafted to the Red Army in 1927:
To the regular forces - workers - 17%, farm laborers - 4%, peasants - 71%, others - 8%
to the territorial army - workers - 13%, farm laborers - 2%, peasants - 80%, others - 5%
Thanks Art. Between this and the 1926 report, we see confirmation of broadly expected demographic trends: (1) RKKA was predominantly peasant with low educational attainment, and (2) the more technical and higher service branches had a lower peasant proportion.

Is it your sense that these demographic reports continued through 1945 (and after)? It will be super interesting to see RKKA's demographics change as the SU industrializes and most interesting to see the wartime trends (if possible).
Any different than the mass of the Wehrmacht in 1927? Oh, wait, it didn't exist... ;)

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 19 Jan 2022 21:44

For a historical perspective: composition of the Russian Army as of 1912

I. Enlisted personnel (without Military Ministry, military schools, corps of gendarmes and border guards)

Education:
Higher - 1480
Secondary school - 6087
Primary school - 125 494
w/o formal school education - 1 127 098

Literacy:
Literate (able to read and write) - 604 737
Partly literate (able to read words or simple sentences) - 301 878
Illiterate - 353 544

Marital status:
Married - 439 229
Single - 815 167
Widowed or divorced - 5763

Social status:
Hereditary nobles - 5133
Clergy - 2238
Merchants - 4553
Hereditary honorable citizens - 5523
Peasants, burghers, cossacks etc - 1 242 712

Ethnicity
Russian, Ukrainians, Belorussians - 979 557
Poles - 104 079
Lithuanians and Latvians - 23 790
Germans - 18 874
Jews - 50 237
ethnic groups of Caucasus - 26 621
Finns, Mordovians, Mari, Chuvashes - 9 551
Tatars, Bashkirs etc - 38 679
Others - 99 093

Religion
Orthodox Christians - 999 093
Catholics - 118 642
Protestants - 25 275
Armenian Christians - 14 817
Judaists - 50 407
Karaite Judaists - 1039
Muslims - 37 277
Others - 13 609

Civil occupation
Agriculture - 770 862
Artisans and craftsmen - 202 449
Factory workers - 42 255
Unskilled workers - 132 523
Domestic servants - 16 081
Administration and public offices - 24 488
Others - 71 501

II. Generals and officers (without Military Ministry, military schools, corps of gendarmes and border guards)

General education:
Higher - 537
Completed secondary school - 29 583
Completed primary school - 8897
Home education - 4565

Military education:
Military academies - 2903
Military schools - 21 008
Junker schools - 18 736
w/o education - 925

Marital status
Married - 25 420
Single - 17 160
Widowed or divorced - 982

Age
below 20 - 152
20-25 - 5 747
25-30 - 10 275
30-40 - 13 051
40-50 - 9 326
50-60 - 3 699
60-70 - 216
70-80 - 17

Social origin:
Hereditary nobles - 23 379
Hereditary honorable citizens - 5 917
Clergy - 1 573
Merchants - 1 516
Lower classes - 11 217

Ethnicity:
Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians - 37 983
Poles - 2 357
Germans - 1 094
Latvians - 232
Lithuanians - 93
Tatars - 243
Ethnic groups of Caucasus - 1 042
Others - 356

Religion
Orthodox Christians - 38 696
Old Believers - 99
Catholics - 2 416
Protestants - 1 230
Armenians Christians - 405
Muslims - 349
Karaite Judaists - 29
Buddhists - 3
Others - 355

Source: Army's military statistical yearbook for the year 1912
http://istmat.info/node/33580

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 20 Jan 2022 04:09

Art - Some fascinating information there; undoubtedly there are vagaries given differing systems of higher education, country by country, but this sort of jumps out:

Enlisted personnel Education:
Higher - 1480

Generals and officers - General education:
Higher - 537

Is "higher" to be interpreted as at the (civilian) university level?

And if so, in a society and time where those numbers were going to be "low" (by any definition) there were almost three times as many men with university educations who were enlisted as there were who were officers?

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 20 Jan 2022 17:03

Higher education = university or institute graduation
secondary = graduation from full secondary school (gymnasium, real school etc)
primary = ground schools with basic training in reading, writing and math (mostly) and intermediate schools standing between ground and secondary schools
And if so, in a society and time where those numbers were going to be "low" (by any definition) there were almost three times as many men with university educations who were enlisted as there were who were officers?
Why would officers need university degrees? Most went to military schools right after school bench. And if you compare percentages then % of officers with university diplomas was higher.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 21 Jan 2022 04:42

Art wrote:
20 Jan 2022 17:03
Higher education = university or institute graduation
secondary = graduation from full secondary school (gymnasium, real school etc)
primary = ground schools with basic training in reading, writing and math (mostly) and intermediate schools standing between ground and secondary schools
And if so, in a society and time where those numbers were going to be "low" (by any definition) there were almost three times as many men with university educations who were enlisted as there were who were officers?
Why would officers need university degrees? Most went to military schools right after school bench. And if you compare percentages then % of officers with university diplomas was higher.
Well, there are those who presume a university education is of benefit to anyone in an intellectually challenging profession ... at least that's what mine have told me. ;)

More seriously, it seems like an odd use of educated manpower in an era where the technical requirements of administration, communications, logistics, ordnance, transportation, military and industrial mobilization, etc. were only becoming more and more challenging.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 22 Jan 2022 09:41

I mean: what did civil university education give for the military career? Those pursuing military career were not required to have university diplomas and it doesn't seem that diploma was a major factor in promotion, while those who had university diplomas in their vast majority didn't think about military career. Those were different ans mostly separate career paths.
Special technical knowledges needed by officers were supposed to be provided by military academies.

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 23 Jan 2022 00:03

Art wrote:
22 Jan 2022 09:41
I mean: what did civil university education give for the military career? Those pursuing military career were not required to have university diplomas and it doesn't seem that diploma was a major factor in promotion, while those who had university diplomas in their vast majority didn't think about military career. Those were different ans mostly separate career paths. Special technical knowledges needed by officers were supposed to be provided by military academies.
That's a fair point and it is "early" in the century, and before the wartime mobilization, but still - in a large army, seems like an odd use of educated personnel. Would conscripts with university degrees be put into a reserve officer pipeline?

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Re: Hard demographic data on RKKA?

Post by Art » 23 Jan 2022 21:26

Not only university degrees but also complete or nearly complete course of secondary school or even those without diploma or school cerificate who could pass special exams.

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