Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

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Biber
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Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#1

Post by Biber » 19 Sep 2021, 18:40

WAs there any special disposition or circumstances at the end of the war of Poles who served in the Red Army during the War? Were they transferred into a Polish Army or other such unit separate from the Regular Red Army?

I'm trying to work out details of Moshe Gildenman's service. He was from the Polish side of the pre-war Soviet border and became a partisan after the Germans invaded, then taken into the Soviet Partisan force then (Oct '43) taken into the Red Army (150th Rifle div then 151road construction bat.) Post war photos show him in an odd uniform (not typically soviet, or necessarily Polish-style) with both Soviet and Polish decorations, including what I believe is a Polish wound ribbon bar. I'm interested to know more about the uniform and to see other images of it.

Screenshot 2021-09-11 175753.jpg
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[EDIT: Gildenman was from Korets, which was in eastern Volhynia on the polish side of the old pre-war Soviet (Ukrainian) border. ]
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wm
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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#2

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2021, 23:31

As a Jew, he would be forbidden to serve in the Polish Army. But where there's a will there's a way so the ban was easy to circumvent.


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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#3

Post by GregSingh » 20 Sep 2021, 03:49

Still, field rabbinate existed until 1949 - Major David Kahane (chief Rabbi of Polish People's Army).

Back to Moshe Gildenman, according to info at https://pamyat-naroda.ru his service in Red Army ceased on 14.Nov.1945
At that time he was in 150th independent road construction battalion of 13th Army.
Also in November 1945 he was awarded a Medal "For Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945".

He also had Order of the Red Star (Nov.43) and Order of the Patriotic War, II class (Sep.44).

His service in Red Army seemed to start sometime in 1942, although relevant documents show as locked (at least to me).

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#4

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 14:37

Thanks Greg for the info from Pamyat-Naroda. I've gleaned a lot from that site but the cyrillic/Russian keeps me from the minutae. From what I've gathered he entered the Red army sometime during September-early October 1943. Thank you for the 14 Nov '45 date, that is very helpful. My impression has been that he remained in uniform well after that date, hence I'm trying to piece together if he had any relationship to the Polish military after that date, and how and at what point he would have received the polish decorations he wore post-war. The seemingly odd tunic he wears is confusing things considerably. I'm also trying to identify a pin which I suspect may be Polish, that he wore on his tunic lapel, faintly visible in the second image.

On another note to you, Greg: It's been about five years now and I find I'm still pursuing Gildenman and his partisan stories. Just this April past I published my book about my son's project on Gildenman's boy partisan story (it can be seen on Amazon under the title Finding Motele) You are mentioned by name in the acknowledgements for the generous and tremendously helpful assistance and insight you lent to the project. Your, and others', help sure made the learning curve much easier. Thank you again.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#5

Post by gebhk » 20 Sep 2021, 15:54

According to the Shoah Resource Center, Moshe emigrated to Israel in the early 50s, there is no mention of him living in Polnd post-war. Similarly, Paul Bartrop (Resisting the Holocaust: Upstanders, Partisans, and Survivors) says that while Moshe crossed Poland on the way to Berlin as part of the Red Army (and presumably back again later), after the war he reurned to Korets (his home town, by then in the USSR) and from there emigrated to Israel. Moshe received the Polish Order of the Cross of Grunwald 3rd Class on 19 April 1948 (I am 90% certain that is the light-coloured cross on Moshe's chest in the second photo, nearest his centre line). This could be conferred on allied soldiers, so there was nothing extraordinary about that nor does it suggest he was in the Polish armed forces at any time.

If it is the Polish wound ribbon (and it certainly looks like it could be) then that is more of a poser. It occurs to me that I have not seen anything mentioned about his life prior to 1942. Was he a soldier of the Polish Army or other Polish armed force 1914-21? He was certainly of the right age (18 in 1916).
Last edited by gebhk on 20 Sep 2021, 18:30, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#6

Post by thorwald77 » 20 Sep 2021, 16:17

Krivoshseev puts the number transferred to Polish and Romanian armies at 250,000

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#7

Post by Yuri » 20 Sep 2021, 17:19

Biber wrote:
19 Sep 2021, 18:40
WAs there any special disposition or circumstances at the end of the war of Poles who served in the Red Army during the War? Were they transferred into a Polish Army or other such unit separate from the Regular Red Army?

I'm trying to work out details of Moshe Gildenman's service. He was from the Polish side of the pre-war Soviet border and became a partisan after the Germans invaded, then taken into the Soviet Partisan force then (Oct '43) taken into the Red Army (150th Rifle div then 151road construction bat.) Post war photos show him in an odd uniform (not typically soviet, or necessarily Polish-style) with both Soviet and Polish decorations, including what I believe is a Polish wound ribbon bar. I'm interested to know more about the uniform and to see other images of it.


Screenshot 2021-09-11 175753.jpg

[EDIT: Gildenman was from Korets, which was in eastern Volhynia on the polish side of the old pre-war Soviet (Ukrainian) border. ]
Accounting and service record file
Gildenman Moisei Asirovich,
Date of birth _. _.1998,
Place of birth: Ukrainian SSR, Rovno region, the city Korets.
Date of entry into service: _._. 1943.
Military rank: engineer.
The name of the military unit: the 151st Rifle Regiment of the 8th Rifle Division of the 13th Army of the 1st Ukrainian Front.
(The document is located in:
TSAMO, Cabinet:41 Boxes:26)
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/heroes/kld-car ... 1%88%D0%B5&

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#8

Post by Yuri » 20 Sep 2021, 17:48

Award document

Top secret
Copy #2.

ORDER
To the troops of the 13th Army of the 1st Ukrainian Front
November 28, 1943,
No. 212/N
Active army

On behalf of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR for the exemplary performance of combat tasks of the Command at the Front of the fight against the German invaders and the valor and courage shown at the same time,
I AWARD:

Order of the Patriotic War of the 2nd degree
....
Order of the Red Star
1. …
2. RedArmyMen (Krasnoarmeets) GILDEMAN Moisei Asirovich, Translator of the headquarters of the 151st Rifle Regiment, 8th Rifle Division.
...
Commander of the troops of the 13th Army
Lieutenant-General Pukhov.
Member of the Military Council
Major General Kozlov


Date of the feat of the RedArmyMen (Krasnoarmeets) Gildenman M. A. 14.10.1943-15.10.1943

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#9

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 17:54

Thank you, I see now that I got his unit affiliation mixed up. I was going by memory.

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Yuri
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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#10

Post by Yuri » 20 Sep 2021, 18:59

(Лицевая сторона наградного листа - Юрий)

Наградной лист
1. Фамилия Имя Отчество: Гильденман Моисей Асирович
2. Воинское звание: Красноармеец
3. Должность, часть: Переводчик Штаба 151-го Стрелковго Полка 8-й Стрелковой Дивизии
4. Представлен: К Ордену «Красная Звезда»
5. Год рождения: 1898
6. Национальность: Еврей
7. Партийность: Беспартийный.
8. Участие в Гражданской, Отечественной войнах: с 1.1942 года Партизан Сталинского партизанского отряда.
9. Имеет ли ранения, контузии в Отечественной войне: Не имеет.
10. С какого времени в Красной Армии: с 10.1943
11. Каким РВК (Районный Военный Комиссариат) призван: При соединении партизан с Красной армией.
12. Чем ранее награжден: Не награжден.
13. Постоянный домашний адрес:

(адрес скрыт согласно закону о сохранении личных данных – Юрий)
14. Краткое, конкретное изложение личного боевого подвига или заслуг.
14 Октября 1943 года при прорыве группой немецких автоматчиков к штабу полка вместе с …

(здесь не могу прочесть слово, которое должно указать вместе с кем бросился в контратаку /возможно это «со мной» / - Юрий)
с криком «Ура» бросился в контратаку, тем завлек за собой весь Саперный взвод. В этом бою привел живым в Штаб полка немецкого унтер-офицера, который дал ценные показаний о численности, планах и передвижениях немецких войск в районе обороны полка, как партизан знающий местные дороги способствовал в ночь с 14 на 15 к выводу большой группировки наших войск в леса без потерь.

Командир 151-го Стрелкового полка
Герой Советского Союза
Полковник /Томиловский/


(Обратная сторона наградного листа - Юрий)

Заключение Военного Совета Армии:
Достоин награждения медалью «За боевые заслуги».

(Слова «медалью «За боевые заслуги» зачеркнуты и вместо них рукой Командующего Армии генерал-лейтенант Пухова написано - Юрий)
Орденом Красной Звезды
Командующий войсками 13-й Армии
Генерал-лейтенант /Пухов/
Член Военного Совета
Генерал-майор /Козлов/


(The front side of the award list is Yuri)

The Award list
1. Last Name First Name Patronymic: Gildenman Moisei Asirovich
2. Military rank: Red Army Men
3. Position, part: Translator Of The Headquarters Of The 151st Rifle Regiment Of The 8th Rifle Division
4. Presented: To the Order of the "Red Star"
5. Year of birth: 1898
6. Nationality: The Jew
7. Party membership: not a Party member.
8. Participation in the Civil and Patriotic Wars: since 1.1942, a partisan of the Stalin partisan detachment (squad).
9. Does he have injuries, concussions in the Patriotic War: Doesn't have.
10. Since when in the Red Army: from 10.1943
11. How is the RVC (District Military Commissariat) called: When connecting the partisans with the Red Army.
12. What was previously awarded: Not awarded.
13. Permanent home address:

(the address is hidden according to the law on the preservation of personal data -Yuri)
14. A brief, specific description of a personal combat feat or merit.
On October 14, 1943, when a group of German submachine gunners broke through to the regimental headquarters together with ...

(I can't read the word here that should indicate with whom he rushed into a counterattack /maybe it's "with me"/ -Yuri)
with a shout of "Hurrah" he rushed into a counterattack, thereby dragging the entire Sapper platoon with him. In this battle, he brought a German unter-officer alive to the Regimental Headquarters, who gave valuable testimony about the number, plans and movements of German troops in the regiment's defense area, as a partisan who knows local roads contributed to the withdrawal of a large group of our troops into the woods without losses on the night of 14 to 15.

Commander of the 151st Rifle Regiment
Hero of the Soviet Union
Colonel / Tomilovsky/


(The reverse side of the award list is Yuri)

Conclusion of the Military Council of the Army:
He is worthy of being awarded the medal "For Military Merit".

(The words "medal" For military merit " are crossed out and instead of them, the hand of the Commander of the Army, Lieutenant General Pukhov, is written-Yuri)
Order of the Red Star

Commander of the troops of the 13th Army
Lieutenant General /Pukhov/
Member of the Military Council
Major General / Kozlov/

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#11

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 19:18

gebhk wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 15:54
According to the Shoah Resource Center, Moshe emigrated to Israel in the early 50s, there is no mention of him living in Polnd post-war. Similarly, Paul Bartrop (Resisting the Holocaust: Upstanders, Partisans, and Survivors) says that while Moshe crossed Poland on the way to Berlin as part of the Red Army (and presumably back again later), after the war he reurned to Korets (his home town, by then in the USSR) and from there emigrated to Israel. Moshe received the Polish Order of the Cross of Grunwald 3rd Class on 19 April 1948 (I am 90% certain that is the light-coloured cross on Moshe's chest in the second photo, nearest his centre line). This could be conferred on allied soldiers, so there was nothing extraordinary about that nor does it suggest he was in the Polish armed forces at any time.

If it is the Polish wound ribbon (and it certainly looks like it could be) then that is more of a poser. It occurs to me that I have not seen anything mentioned about his life prior to 1942. Was he a soldier of the Polish Army or other Polish armed force 1914-21? He was certainly of the right age (18 in 1916).
In the immediate post war years Gildenman published quite a few articles in the Lodz Jewish press then in 1949 and '50 he published his first books in Paris with the Organization of Polish Jews in France, before emigrating to Israel in 1952. I've always taken this as an indication that he may have lived in those places, and various biographical sources seem to suggest this as well. I don't recall any reference to him returning to Korets (I'd gladly be wrong on this) but there is a reference to his son returning to Korets and killing the man responsible for murdering his mother and sister. Many of the biographical sources are such a mish-mash of information (like the game of telephone) that it can be difficult to decipher the actual facts from the fiction and a true timeline.

Does your reference specifically say the 3rd class of the Grunwald Cross? I have taken this to be the case given the bright contrast with his other awards. Thank you for the clarification regarding suggestion of Polish service.

I'm sure, at least in my mind, that it is a Polish wound ribbon, as I haven't seen a similar soviet ribbon that it could be. The apparent (stars) devices on it are mostly the deciding factor. Soviet wound stipes didn't employ them to my knowledge. That Photo of him wearing it on that tunic is the only one with it (I note also that he is missing the Soviet partisan medal [class?] seen in another photo of him wearing his decorations on a civilian shirt) As for being a poser, I don't know what to think. Would it have been awarded to a Red Army officer along with his other Polish decorations? The small pin on his lapel has me stumped too. I would think it may be Polish but it could be the real poser, as the picture is probably from civilian life (note the tie) and the pin in a most unorthodox position.
Last edited by Biber on 20 Sep 2021, 19:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#12

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 19:23

Yuri wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 18:59

8. Участие в Гражданской, Отечественной войнах: с 1.1942 года Партизан Сталинского партизанского отряда.
Great to see this laid out, I am aware of it. However, the date of #8 is incorrect and should be 1.1943. All the biographical references have him encountering Saburov in mid January of 1943. Gildenman didn't escape the Korets ghetto and it's liquidation until September 1942.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#13

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 19:56

gebhk wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 15:54
Was he a soldier of the Polish Army or other Polish armed force 1914-21? He was certainly of the right age (18 in 1916).
Sorry, I forgot to address this part. The biographical sources I've worked with don't mention any prior military service, though as you noted he was of the right age. He did go to trade school and became an engineer, and he does appear later (mid-late '20s) in polish business directories as the owner of a cement fabrication company. I'm not sure how early he appears in them though.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#14

Post by Yuri » 20 Sep 2021, 20:15

Лицевая сторона наградного листа

Наградной лист
1. Фамилия Имя Отчество: Гильденман Моисей Асирович
2. Воинское звание: Младший лейтенант
3. Должность, часть: Инженер 150-го отдельного дорожно-строительного батальона
Представляется к правительственной награде Орденом «Отечественной войны II степени»
4. Год рождения: 1898
5. Национальность: Еврей
6. Партийность: Беспартийный.
7. Участие в Гражданской войне, последующих боевых действиях по защите СССР и Отечественной войне : В отечественной войне с января 1942 года
8. Имел ли ранения или контузии в Отечественной войне: Не имеет.
9. С какого времени в Красной Армии: с Октября 1943 и партизанских отрядах с января 1942 года по октябрь 1943 года.
10. Каким РВК (Районный Военный Комиссариат) призван: Доброволец с партизанского отряда.
11. Чем ранее награжден /за какие отличия/: Орденом «Красная Звезда» приказ 13-й Армии №212/н 28.11.1943.
13. Постоянный домашний адрес представляемого к награждению и адрес его семьи:

(адрес скрыт согласно закону о сохранении личных данных – Юрий)

Краткое, конкретное изложение боевого подвига или заслуги.
Младший лейтенант Гильденман, инженер батальона, при выполнении боевой задачи по строительству моста через реку Висла в районе деревни Седлещаны, показал себя мужественным офицером, руководившим работами при строительстве моста не взирая на бомбардировки с воздуха и артиллерийским обстрелам, обеспечил выполнение строительства моста. За умелое руководство работой и проявленное мужество товарищ Гиндельман достоин правительственной награды орденом «Отечественной войны II степени».

Командир 150-го ОДСБ
Инженер-майор /Пикулин/
8.08.1944

Достоин награждения орденом «ОТЕЧЕСТВЕННАЯ ВОЙНА II-й СТЕПЕНИ».

Начальник дорожных войск 13-й Армии
Полковник /Тимофеев/
«9» августа 1944 г
.

Обратная сторона наградного листа

Заключение начальника тыла Армии
Достоин награждения орденом «Отечественной войны II-й степени»

Начальник тыла 13-й армии
Генерал-майор /Курносов/

Заключение Военного Совета Армии
Достоин награждения медалью «За боевые заслуги»

(на месте слов «медалью «За боевые заслуги»рукой Члена Военного Совета Армии генерал-майора Козлова написано:)
орденом «Отечественной войны 2-й степени»

Командующий войсками 13-й Армии
Генерал-лейтенант /Пухов/
Член Военного Совета Армии
Генерал-майор /Козлов/
«29» августа 1944 года.



The front side of the award list

Award list
1. Last Name First Name Patronymic: Gildenman Moisei Asirovich
2. Military rank: Second Lieutenant
3. Position, part: Engineer of the 150th Separate Road Construction Battalion
It is presented to the government award with the Order of the "Patriotic War of the II degree"
4. Year of birth: 1898
5. Nationality: The Jew
6. Party membership: not a Party member.
7. Participation in the Civil War, subsequent military operations to protect the USSR and the Patriotic War: In the Patriotic War since January 1942
8. Did he have injuries or concussions in the Patriotic War: Doesn't have.
9. Since when in the Red Army: from October 1943 and partisan detachments from January 1942 to October 1943.
10. Which RVC (District Military Commissariat) is called: A volunteer from a partisan detachment.
11. What was previously awarded /for what differences/: Order of the "Red Star" order of the 13th Army No. 212/n 28.11.1943.
13. The permanent home address of the person being presented for the award and the address of his family:

(the address is hidden according to the law on the preservation of personal data-Yuri)

A brief, specific statement of a combat feat or merit.
Junior Lieutenant Gildenman, an engineer of the battalion, when performing the combat task of building a bridge over the Vistula River near the village of Sedleshany, showed himself to be a courageous officer who led the work during the construction of the bridge, despite the aerial bombardment and artillery shelling, ensured the completion of the construction of the bridge. For his skillful leadership of the work and his courage, Comrade Gindelman deserves a government award with the Order of the "Patriotic War II degree".
Commander of the 150th ODSB
Engineer-Major / Pikulin/
8.08.1944
He is worthy of being awarded the Order of the PATRIOTIC WAR OF the II DEGREE.
Head of the Road Troops of the 13th Army
Colonel / Timofeev/
" 9 " August 1944
.

The reverse side of the award list

Conclusion of the chief of the rear of the Army.
He is worthy of being awarded the Order of the "Patriotic War of the II degree".

Head of the rear of the 13th Army
Major General /Kurnosov/

Conclusion of the Military Council of the Army
Worthy of being awarded the medal "For Military Merit"

(in place of the words "medal "For military merit", the hand of a member of the Military Council of the Army, Major General Kozlov, is written:)
the Order "The Patriotic War of the 2nd degree"

Commander of the troops of the 13th Army
Lieutenant General /Pukhov/
Member of the Military Council of the Army
Major General /Kozlov/
" 29 " August 1944.

==================================================

All documents indicate that in the partisan detachments since January 1942.

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Re: Disposition of Poles in Red Army at end of War

#15

Post by Biber » 20 Sep 2021, 20:40

Thank you Yuri - I was aware of the award for the Bridge over the Vistula but didn't have details.

Interesting the notes for the award don't mention previous wounds. The biography sources tell of him suffering wounds and being offered to be treated in the rear area but he chose to be treated at the front and to subsequently return to the fighting. This was during his final months as a Soviet partisan.

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