Stalingrad Battles query

[LAstryAGAIN]

Was Stalingrad the most vicious battle of Great Patriotic War?
How do losses in Stalingrad compare with Battles of Verdun 1915 and Somme 1916?

[Art]

A strict definition of "vicious" is needed and how it relates to the size of forces involved.
I believe, casualties at Stalingrad were larger than at Somme and Verdun.

[Dann Falk]

Quoting from my book The 64th Amy at Stalingrad 1942-1943, on page 256.

Conclusion

A final thought about the battle for Stalingrad; we will never know the true human cost of this battle, the best we can do is provide an approximation. David M. Glantz and Jonathan M. House, in their book Endgame at Stalingrad Vol. 3, book 2 states “It has been estimated that during the entire Stalingrad Campaign (July 42 to January 43), Soviets forces suffered about 1,700,000 casualties in the defense of the city, with the Axis forces suffering just over 1,000,000 casualties trying to capture it.” Of course, any civilian losses would only add to these totals. I am of the opinion that with this level of carnage, the exact number of casualties is irrelevant. In the end, all this death and destruction was ultimately about the possession of a single city on the banks of the Volga River, Stalingrad.

Hope this helps

Dann

[Pips]

Those numbers certainly dwarf losses suffered either at Verdun or at the Somme.

[Pips]

But I think even Stalingrad pales in comparison to that most viscous (as in casualties) of all battles known as the Battles Of Rzhev; or more commonly the 'Rzhev meat grinder'.

In a series of battles ought from January 1942 to April 1943, Russian historian Svetlana Gerasimova places total (Soviet) casualties around 2,300,000 men. Hard numbers for German losses are unknown, but the figure of 300,00 to 400,000 is commonly stated. And add to those figures the civilian casualties, which are also unknown.

[Art]

A final thought about the battle for Stalingrad; we will never know the true human cost of this battle, the best we can do is provide an approximation. David M. Glantz and Jonathan M. House, in their book Endgame at Stalingrad Vol. 3, book 2 states “It has been estimated that during the entire Stalingrad Campaign (July 42 to January 43), Soviets forces suffered about 1,700,000 casualties in the defense of the city, with the Axis forces suffering just over 1,000,000 casualties trying to capture it.”

The official count is appr. 1,130,000 Soviet casualties in the Stalingrad defense and offensive operations from July 1942 to 2 February 1943.

But I think even Stalingrad pales in comparison to that most viscous (as in casualties) of all battles known as the Battles Of Rzhev; or more commonly the 'Rzhev meat grinder'.

In a series of battles ought from January 1942 to April 1943, Russian historian Svetlana Gerasimova places total (Soviet) casualties around 2,300,000 men

If you take all casualties of the entire West and Kalinin Front from January 1942 to March 1943 inclusively then, probably, you would arrive to similar numbers. The problem is what part of them actually belongs to the "battle of Rzhev" as the latter lacks formal definition and exact scope in space and time. Were the operations around Velikiye Luki a part of the "battle of Rzhev" or not? That is left to a private judgement, since there is no "Battle of Rzhev" in the official or mainstream historiography.
Personally, I concur with idea proposed by some modern historians to view these events as a part of the "Large Battle of Moscow" lasting from October 1941 to March 1943. Logical as it seems this definition is far from being universally accepted thus far.