An aspect of Russian soldiers' mentality during WW2

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Panzermahn
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An aspect of Russian soldiers' mentality during WW2

#1

Post by Panzermahn » 06 Jan 2004, 11:36

Numerous account had been studied on the behaviour of German soldiers in World war 2 especially in the Eastern Front. Works like Omer Bartov's "German soldiers at the Eastern Front 1941-1945. Barbarisation of Warfare" dealt seriously with this kind of subject

But i have never seen or known any serious study on the aspect of russian soldiers mentality or behaviour in WW2 by any non-german or non-russian historians/scholars....


I'm somehwat confused and perplexed by the Jekyl and Hyde mentality and behaviour of the russian soldiers in WW2.

Russian soldiers (just like German soldiers) are capable of what species of subanimal-barbarians can do towards defeated enemy. Names or places like Feodosia, Grischino, Broniki, Cherkassy, Nemmersdorf, Gumbinnen, Goldap had already proven that. They raped females from 8 to 80 years old, murdered civillians and soldiers bestially and tortured horribly POWs


But, on the other hand, sometimes Russian soldiers can show great kindness akin to those of Guardian angels in the moment of magnaminity towards the defeated enemy whether they are German civillians or soldiers despite what the Germans did in Russia

For example, Antony Beevor in his book Stalingrad mentioned that some of the Russian soldiers guarding the captured 6th Army German POWs sometimes became soft and provided a bit of food for them after seeing photographs of children of the German POWs

another example is during the Prague Uprising in 1945, Russian officers and soldiers protected German civillians from the brutality of the Czechs. Some accounts also mentioned that some Red Army officers shot Czechs troops or partisan for mistreating German POWs


Many german accounts also stated that Russian soldiers (especially front-line troops) feeded starving German civillians eventhough they are not exactly ordered by Stalin to do that. The actions of general Berzarin to feed starving Berliners when there are famine in Soviet Central Asia after the surrender of Germany should also be noted that it was the initiative of the general himself and not Stalin


Can anyone helped me with more study on this subject?

kelty90
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#2

Post by kelty90 » 06 Jan 2004, 15:39

For what it's worth, I'd second this request for knowledge. A serious look at the mentality of the Red Army soldier from someone with the language skills (Russian/Ukranian, etc) would be most interesting.
After all, as Panzermahn notes, we all know how degraded and bestial the German soldiers were and it would be fascinating to to see if the Soviet soldier came close to such depravity.


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Beppo Schmidt
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#3

Post by Beppo Schmidt » 06 Jan 2004, 22:06

we all know how degraded and bestial the German soldiers were and it would be fascinating to to see if the Soviet soldier came close to such depravity.
Describing all of the German soldiers as degraded and beastial is the same as describing all the Russian soldiers as rapists of little girls. I would say the mass rapes in Berlin proved that at least some Russian soldiers were fully capable of depravity. Some Russians behaved kindly, as did some Germans (Fritz Bayerlein fed Russian refugees from his field kitchen), but overall the war in the East was marked by brutality on both sides.

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#4

Post by Timo » 07 Jan 2004, 20:01

kelty90 wrote:we all know how degraded and bestial the German soldiers were.
...Please keep yourself from such descriptions. To generalize "the German soldiers" in such a way is based on nothing and will only cause endless discussions.

kelty90
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#5

Post by kelty90 » 08 Jan 2004, 10:26

Point taken!...so can we extend the same respect to the soldiers of the other combatants, included the soldiers of the Red Army?.

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Beppo Schmidt
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#6

Post by Beppo Schmidt » 08 Jan 2004, 23:42

Describing all of the German soldiers as degraded and beastial is the same as describing all the Russian soldiers as rapists of little girls.
Some Russians behaved kindly
I never said there weren't Russian soldiers who were worthy of respect. Many were extremely brave people who were defending their homes and loved ones. German civilians recall how the front-line Red Army troops were courteous, even friendly, and several warned them about the rapists coming along behind.

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#7

Post by Timo » 09 Jan 2004, 01:02

kelty90 wrote:Point taken!...so can we extend the same respect to the soldiers of the other combatants, included the soldiers of the Red Army?.
...That would be obvious.

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Bair
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#8

Post by Bair » 10 Jan 2004, 22:32

Well, it all depended on many factors. From the interviews with the Russian veterans based in St Petersburg (the ones that went into Eastern Prussia and Germany) I can tell the following:

1. After the fighting in Russia in 1941-1944 they had seen and heard so much about German atrocities, that the attitude towards the enemy could not be positive. Now the veterans were quite calm speaking about this, but in those days they perceived anything they did as righteous revenge.

In other words, what else did Germans expect after all they had done in USSR?

2. There was a clear tendency for soldiers from Leningrad not to take prisoners - this is definitely due to their experiences during the Siege.

3. Several veterans admitted, that when Red Army was crossing into Eastern Prussia, they were told that now it was up to them what they would do and what revenge they would like to take. No one was very specific, but they did admit that there were atrocities committed. They also said that this only lasted for about a month, and after that atrocities were strictly persecuted by officers and NKVD.

4. It all depended on the unit and attitudes of unit officers.

5. Quite a lot of executions of prisoners happened right after the battle, if a good friend was killed in that battle and surviving men were infuriated. One veteran told a story about a female Russian medic that managed to kill about 50 German soldiers who had surrendered from her SMG after she heard that her boyfriend, an infantry Lieutenant, was killed in that battle. It was only after that the Soviet officers managed to stop her.

I hope that this sheds some light on the matter of mentality of Soviet soldiers during the WWII. There were some specific memories of veterans about executions and other atrocities, hope some time they would be posted at http://www.iremember.ru

Regards,

Bair
http://www.mannerheim-line.com

Darrin
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Re: An aspect of Russian soldiers' mentality during WW2

#9

Post by Darrin » 12 Jan 2004, 16:40

panzermahn wrote:Numerous account had been studied on the behaviour of German soldiers in World war 2 especially in the Eastern Front. Works like Omer Bartov's "German soldiers at the Eastern Front 1941-1945. Barbarisation of Warfare" dealt seriously with this kind of subject

But i have never seen or known any serious study on the aspect of russian soldiers mentality or behaviour in WW2 by any non-german or non-russian historians/scholars....


I'm somehwat confused and perplexed by the Jekyl and Hyde mentality and behaviour of the russian soldiers in WW2.

Russian soldiers (just like German soldiers) are capable of what species of subanimal-barbarians can do towards defeated enemy. Names or places like Feodosia, Grischino, Broniki, Cherkassy, Nemmersdorf, Gumbinnen, Goldap had already proven that. They raped females from 8 to 80 years old, murdered civillians and soldiers bestially and tortured horribly POWs


But, on the other hand, sometimes Russian soldiers can show great kindness akin to those of Guardian angels in the moment of magnaminity towards the defeated enemy whether they are German civillians or soldiers despite what the Germans did in Russia

For example, Antony Beevor in his book Stalingrad mentioned that some of the Russian soldiers guarding the captured 6th Army German POWs sometimes became soft and provided a bit of food for them after seeing photographs of children of the German POWs

another example is during the Prague Uprising in 1945, Russian officers and soldiers protected German civillians from the brutality of the Czechs. Some accounts also mentioned that some Red Army officers shot Czechs troops or partisan for mistreating German POWs


Many german accounts also stated that Russian soldiers (especially front-line troops) feeded starving German civillians eventhough they are not exactly ordered by Stalin to do that. The actions of general Berzarin to feed starving Berliners when there are famine in Soviet Central Asia after the surrender of Germany should also be noted that it was the initiative of the general himself and not Stalin


Can anyone helped me with more study on this subject?

It seems bartovs views of the ger soilders is influced by cas numbers that were not correct.

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