*Soviet artillery prime movers of WWII - some info

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VDV
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#31

Post by VDV » 04 Apr 2005, 23:01

In 1939 the armored half-track troop-carrier B-3 was produced as experimental series (ZIS-22 chassis, crew 2 + 12 men, weight 7,1 t; ZIS-16 engine 85 hp; 40 km/h; range 150 km, armor 15 mm, 1 x 12,7mm MG DShK). 300 B-3s were produced.
BIGPanzer: this info regarding the B-3 is incorrect. The B-3 was built as a single prototype in 1944 and never went into production.

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#32

Post by BIGpanzer » 04 Apr 2005, 23:37

Hello, VDV!
Thanks for the letter.
VDV wrote: this info regarding the B-3 is incorrect. The B-3 was built as a single prototype in 1944 and never went into production.
I know, that some sources wrote that.
As for B-3 half-track troop-carrier - this is one of the most strange, mysterious and unclear page in Soviet AFV history. Many English, German and Russian sources report that small series (different amount from ten to hundreds) of B-3 was produced in 1939 and it was based on ZIS-22 half-track chassis. Some sources really report that B-3 was a single prototype, was built in 1944 (experimental AT-3 chassis with light tank T-70M caterpillars). When I wrote my data I was based on German archive sources, they said that near 300 B-3s were produced in 1939, but no info about their use in Soviet Army. As for me - I don't know exactly in this case. At first I thought that German sources mixed up B-3 and BA-30 armored half-track (the last one was really produced as small series in 1937), but no - those sources also report about BA-30 in addition. So really strange situation. But the picture of B-3 I saw really shows the T-70M type caterpillars, not ZIS-22.
As for BA-30 half-tracked armored car - it was produced as low series in 1937 and was used during the Winter War as light artillery tractor.

BIGpanzer
See the photo of B-3 experimental personnel carrier:
http://voenavto.almanacwhf.ru/slovo/sl10.jpg

Photo of BA-30 armored car (GAZ-60 half-track chassis; note the ski, kept over the tracks):
http://armoredzone.by.ru/Pred/ba-30.GIF or
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/broneavtom ... ba30_5.gif
Two pictures of BA-30:
http://ign1111.narod.ru/vit/broneavtomo ... ba30_1.jpg
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/broneavtom ... ba30_4.gif
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 27 Apr 2005, 11:06, edited 6 times in total.


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#33

Post by BIGpanzer » 05 Apr 2005, 09:39

Please help me with the photos and any info about use of Soviet half-tracks during the Winter War.
Does anybody have the photo of GAZ-60 or ZIS-22 with 4x7,62mm AA Maxim 4M, mounted on the platform?
Also I still need the WWII-period photos of Ya-12 artillery tractor (see above).

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ZIS-42 half-track artillery prime mover

#34

Post by BIGpanzer » 05 Apr 2005, 23:35

The single serially produced during WWII Soviet half-track was artillery prime mover ZIS-42 (in fact modernized ZIS-22 with more wide caterpillars, gearing and chain-drive between caterpillars and driving-wheels, not friction linkage). Two experimental NATI VZ2-52 (ZIS-22-52) with more powerful ZIS-16 engine (86 hp) were built in 1940. They were quite reliable and had unprecedented cross-country ability (tow 122mm howitzer + 2t load through 1-2 m snow with skis on the wheels!). ZIS-22-52 could overcome bogs, ditches and deep fords. Maximum speed was 40 km/h. It was recommended to serial production as high-speed middle transport prime mover for AT and regimental artillery.
In spring 1941 the serial production was planned to start, but it was stopped after the beginning of war (only three ZIS-42 was produced till June 1941) and evacuation of ZIS in October 1941 (Stalin Car Factory).

In autumn 1941 the rocket mortar BM-13 on ZIS-42 chassis was developed, but this project was abandoned. Nevertheless in 1942 the 57mm AT cannon was mounted on ZIS-41 (the half-armored variant of ZIS-42, two experimental were produced). Also in 1943 the half-armored ZIS-43 with 37mm AA gun were produced as small series.

In summer 1942 the serial production of ZIS-42 started (5931 were produced in 1942-1944 or 6372 in 1942-1946: different sources). The engineer G.Sonkin received the State Prize for the work on ZIS-42. The first half-tracks were used at Stalingrad Front as prime movers for AA and AT guns on the front line.

ZIS-42 was based on ZIS-5V serial truck chassis, but with rubber caterpillars (with steel plates), guide roller, driving-roller and four double bearing rollers instead of rear wheels. For better deep snow overcoming the skis on front wheels were used. In contrast to wheel ZIS-5 truck ZIS-42 had more powerful engine ZIS-5M, modified gearbox, strengthen radiator and three additional fuel tanks (240-300 l total). Also the platform was a little bit changed and equipped with awning and side sittings. Later modifications had safety bars on radiator and headlights, also the winch.
Modernized ZIS-42M was equipped with powerful 85hp engine ZIS-16 or lend-lease USA 147hp “White”.

The transmission and back axle of ZIS-42 worked with overload; also the maneuverability (turning radius – 15m) and speed were quite low for high-speed artillery prime mover. Also the depletion of fuel was very high. In 1943 the chain-drive was experimentally changed into gimbal drive, but the reliability was still not high. But despite some disadvantages ZIS-42 had excellent cross-country ability and could overcome deep snow and mud, insurmountable fro wheel trucks and they used very widely as artillery prime movers till the end of WWII (in agriculture some of ZIS-42 used until the late 1950s!). In January 1944 only ZIS-42s, were gathered from the whole front, helped to deliver divisional artillery and infantry through the deep snow (1-2 m) to Novgorod and liberated it.

Specifications of ZIS-42: weight 5,252 t + 1,5-2,25 t load + 2,75-4,75 t trailer; crew 2 + 14; dimensions 6,097 x 2,360 x 2,175 (without awning) m; track width 41,5 cm; clearance 31,8 cm; unit pressure 0,266 kg/sq.cm; engine 76 hp; speed 36 km/h; range 390 km.

Photos of ZiS-42 half-track:
http://www.war.ee/earth/ussr/cars/zis_4 ... s42_01.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/z/zis42zr.jpg (towing 76mm ZiS-3 cannon)
http://denisovets.narod.ru/zil/zilprototips/ZIS42-2.jpg (factory yard with new ZiS-42s)

Photo of the Soviet half-track artillery prime mover ZiS-42 (1942-1946, 6372 copies)
is from http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/z/zis42zr1.jpg


Regards, BIGpanzer

Please, help me with the photos of half-armored variants of ZIS-42 with 57mm AT gun and 37mm AA gun on the platform.
Attachments
ZiS-42 half-track artillery prime mover.jpg
ZiS-42 half-track artillery prime mover.jpg (30.89 KiB) Viewed 7724 times
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 25 Nov 2005, 18:38, edited 5 times in total.

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#35

Post by BIGpanzer » 05 Apr 2005, 23:38

Last edited by BIGpanzer on 30 Apr 2005, 21:02, edited 3 times in total.

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AT-14 half-track heavy artillery prime mover

#36

Post by BIGpanzer » 06 Apr 2005, 15:26

I found recently the info about very interesting Soviet heavy half-track artillery tractor – AT-14 (abbreviation means “artillery tractor”). In summer 1942 two enterprises (ZIS and NATI) received the order to develop at three months artillery prime mover for heavy and super-heavy cannons (14 t trailers) because of great shortage of such tractors in heavy artillery units. To speed up the development of new half-track Soviet engineers decided to use engine and transmission from the serial ZIS trucks and chassis from the serial light tank T-70M. As for the engine – it was planned to use twin ZIS-5 or twin ZIS-16 with 146-176 hp total because of absence of serial powerful truck engine.

Engineers from NATI developed the half-track prime mover with two parallel ZIS-5M engines and special gearbox, also the second project of such half-truck, but with single 150 hp NATI MB-27 engine existed. Both projects were abandoned because of experimental, not serial gearbox and 150 hp engine.

Engineers from ZIS (general engineer – B.Fitterman) developed the half-track AT-8 for tow the 203mm howitzers. AT-8 had two ZIS-5M engines, each for its own caterpillar moving. The transmission didn’t have the differential gear and for turning the half-track the original vacuum gearing of throttle control of each engine was used. That increased the cross-country ability and could simplify the serial production of AT-8 also. In December 1942 the experimental AT-8 was built and tested during spring-summer 1943. In autumn 1943 two modernized AT-14 were produced. AT-14 had two parallel ZIS-16 engines with two standard radiators, but common cowl. Two gearbox (with common driving) and cabin (more wide) were taken from ZIS-5 serial truck, some elements of transmission – from American lend-lease “Studebaker” truck, the caterpillars and rollers – from T-70M light tank (AT-14 had additional bearing roller in comparison with AT-8 ).

AT-14 was tested for a long time during the winter-autumn 1944 as the completely unique half-track. Its specifications: weight 8 t + 2,5-3 t load + 14-20 t trailer; crew 2 + 15; dimensions 6,535 x 2,550 x 2,410 m; track 2,12 m; width of caterpillar – 36 cm; clearance 38,5 cm; unit pressure 0,502 kg/sq.cm; engine 2 x ZIS-16 with 161 hp total; speed 35 km/h; range 225 km. AT-14 showed excellent cross-country ability and was very maneuverable for its size and weight. The fuel consumption was low and AT-14 could move with only one engine, which was very necessary at the front line. As for disadvantages – AT-14 was bulky and not very reliable, didn’t have a winch and was quite hard in driving by inexperienced driver. It was recommended to serial production, but only 10 were produced (with first two experimental) because of arrival of lend-lease American tractors “Allis-Chalmers”, equipped with winches.

BIGpanzer

I need the photo of AT-14 (elongated version of AT-8 ). If somebody has such photo, please, let me know.

Photo of the Soviet half-track heavy artillery prime mover AT-8 (1943, 1 copy + 10 copies of AT-14)
is from http://www.autocentre.ua/ac/02/gr1/imag ... Hist06.jpg
Attachments
AT-8 half-track heavy artillery prime mover.jpg
AT-8 half-track heavy artillery prime mover.jpg (33.07 KiB) Viewed 7726 times
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 25 Nov 2005, 18:42, edited 6 times in total.

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#37

Post by BIGpanzer » 06 Apr 2005, 22:47

Guys!

Please, help me with the following photos: any photos or pictures of "Voroshilovets" with 85mm AA gun, WWII photos of S-2 and Ya-12, Winter War photos of Soviet half-tracks GAZ-60 and ZIS-22, any photos of half-armored experimental modifications of ZIS-42, any photos of AT-14 8O 8O 8O .

Also any opinions and notes about my short review of Soviet artillery tractors, please :) :) :)

Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer

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#38

Post by VDV » 06 Apr 2005, 23:27

BIGPanzer:

I have a book somewhere about Soviet half-tracks but I still haven't been able to find it. In general, the info you provided about Soviet artillery tractors is accurate(except regarding the B-3). Other than that, I found very few details that didn't agree with my sources. Some info you provided was completely new for me.

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#39

Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Apr 2005, 18:26

Hello, VDV!
Thanks for the letter and also for your notes about Soviet artillery tractors.
This is really quite interesting topic for me, because I knew very few about them several weeks before (I knew only about "Komsomolets" and ZiS-42) despite the fact that Russians used thousands of artillery tractors of different models during WWII (for example, on 1 January 1941 there were 27094 artillery tractors in Red Army, including civil agricultural models). That is why I decided to make a small research and present the info here, for all forum members.

Regards, BIGpanzer

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Su 45

#40

Post by M J C » 25 Oct 2005, 17:08

Here is another view of SU 45 photo from eBay some time back

Regards Mark
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SU 45.jpg
SU 45.jpg (24.63 KiB) Viewed 7905 times

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#41

Post by BIGpanzer » 25 Oct 2005, 20:28

Hi, M J C!
This photo is a little bit far away from the artillery prime mover topic.... :D

But anyway. Thanks for the photo. SU-45 is not correct name for this vehicle (but many sources still make this mistake) as the real SU-45 was a SP gun prototype based on the T-38 small amphibious tank. This is a KhTZ-16 armored tractor, armed with a 45mm 20K gun. During the hard time in summer 1941 because of great losses of Soviet light tanks it was decided to produce "self-made" tanks, based on transport artillery tractors (STZ-5, see my post somewhere here about it) and agricultural tractors (STZ-NATI, STZ-3). Usually KhTZ (Kharkov Tractor Factory) produced such "tanks", based on STZ-3 chassis, but with more high-speed caterpillars from STZ-5 transport artillery tractors (which was also based on STZ-3 chassis). Armor - 10-25 mm. Armament - 45mm tank gun + 1 MG. Such "tanks" received the name KhTZ-16. During September-20 October 1941 KhTZ produced 50-60 such "tanks", on 20 October the factory was captured by the Germans. The armored tractors were used in defence battles near Kharkov in October 1941, but were lost, of course, very quickly. Several were used till the spring 1942.

Near 30 KhTZ-16 were produced also in Stalingrad, as some equipment and documentation were evacuated from Kharkov to Stalingrad in October 1941.

During the battle to Odessa (Black Sea port) - the Odessa Factory of October Revolution reequipped near 30-50 artillery transport tractors STZ-5 into "tanks" (armour 14-25 mm, turret with 45mm gun from T-26 damaged light tanks, 2 Maxim MGs) between 20 August - 15 October 1941. They could successfully supported Soviet marines during the attacks against Romanian troops (Romanians didn`t have enough AT guns), several were destroyed, several were captured by Romanians after the Odessa capture in October 1941 and were used as training vehicles by them.

Several armored tractores (unknown chassis) were produced in Leningrad during the siege.

Best regards, BIGpanzer

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#42

Post by M J C » 28 Oct 2005, 05:18

[quote="BIGpanzer"]Hi, M J C!
This photo is a little bit far away from the artillery prime mover topic.... :D

Big Panzer
Whoops!
Sorry my mistake, I think I posted in the wrong part! That's the trouble when viewing different threads at the same time. Nevertheless it quite a nice image.

Regards Mark

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#43

Post by BIGpanzer » 28 Oct 2005, 12:17

Hi!
Yes, the photo of this very rear AFV is good!

BP

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#44

Post by SiG I » 01 Dec 2005, 23:58

Also Romanians used 34 captured T-20s during WWII.
Those vehicles needed to be refurbished and given new engines. Because they had a Ford engine, romanians called them "Captured Russian Ford". See here:http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=247

Captured Russian Ford (Komsomolets) tractors on parade (pic. from the same website)
Image

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#45

Post by BIGpanzer » 02 Dec 2005, 01:20

Hi, SiG I!
Thanks for the excellent info about service of trophy Soviet T-20 "Komsomolets" light artillery prime movers in Romanian Army. Mainly T-20s were captured in 1942 in Odessa, where they were repaired after combats (as many "Komsomolets" were used not only as artillery prime movers but also as tankettes for infantry support, they were armed with 1x7.62mm MG). 7780 T-20 “Komsomolets” were produced in 1937-1941 in Moscow, Gorky and Stalingrad. The losses of “Komsomolets” were high during the first period of WWII as they used very widely and in September 1942 there were only 1662 T-20s in Soviet Army.

I just have one question concerning the "Komsomolets" engines. Did Romanians replace the engines by more powerful engines or just the same from Ford?

The petrol engines of "Komsomolets" could not be very used as those prime movers were relatively new in 1941-1942 (their production started in 1937 and finished in 1941). Nevertheless, quite good Soviet 4-cylinder car engine GAZ-M, 50 hp (not GAZ-AA as it was written on the Romanian site the link you`ve provided) was overcharged when use on artillery prime mover for towing guns during the prolonged time, so some T-20s suffered from the engine breakdowns. GAZ-M engine was a Soviet improved copy of US Ford-BB engine. But several technical elements from the truck GAZ-AA were really used in "Komsomolets" construction to make its serial production more cheap, universal and long-run.
Many "Komsomolets" were damaged (especially their engines) by their crews or factory workers before Germans and Romanians could capture them in Odessa.

Also three modifications of T-20 existed (not two, according to http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=247), with different space for ammunition, cooling system, suspension, armament. All modifications were used for towing the guns and cannons, including the artillery crew and ammunition. No special modifications for only ammunition transportation were produced.

Regards, BIGpanzer

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