Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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mjbollinger
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Lake Class

#196

Post by mjbollinger » 12 Mar 2006, 14:50

THanks, BP for the corrections. Greatly appreciated. I've not spent much time looking at the fishing fleet and it shows.

With respect to the sale of Lake class ships, there are actually two different classifications of Lake ships and each was purchased as part of the purchase of 25 ex-USSB ships by Johann Ohsol in 1929.

The USSB-1074 "Lake" ships found their way into the fishing fleet as you describe. The USSB-1099 "Lake" class ships were used in cargo service by the Far East shipping company. ALEUT was purchased as part of this transaction as well.

MB

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BIGpanzer
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#197

Post by BIGpanzer » 13 Mar 2006, 15:27

Thanks, Marty!
I found a mention that Soviet AKO fleet bought five USA cargo steamers of "Lake"-type in 1929 (for 51048$ including all transport expenses) and reequiped them into crab/fishing ships, which were used as transport ships also.
"Tungus", "Yukagir", "Lamut", "Eskimos", "Yakut" (3100 t, 77.3x13.3 m; 1500 hp steam engine). Some ships were moved to USSR by Soviet crews, some - by US crews (Seattle-Vladivostok via Japanese Hokkaido).
Also AKO bought new trawler ship "Baklan" in Germany during the same time.


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Dido
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#198

Post by Dido » 13 Mar 2006, 16:13

Very interesting information that we have assembled here!

You can also see a photo of CHETVERTYI KRABOLOV as the BENLEDI at http://www.merchantnavyofficers.com/benline.html

Here is some additional info on EASTPORT/ITELMEN : http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/173342.htm

Another ship employed by the Soviets as a fish factory was the PISCHEVAYA INDUSTRIYA. See here for details: http://www.bluestarline.org/lamports/vasari.html
She managed to survive in a working condition for 70 years! Any pictures of her under the Soviet flag?

Anything available on the story of the VTOROY KRABOLOV or on the MENZHINTSEV?

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#199

Post by BIGpanzer » 13 Mar 2006, 18:57

Hi, Dido!
Excellent links! But lets be more in topic - the use of Soviet transport ships (Soviet-built and ex-foreign in Soviet service) in WWII. :)

About crabber/crab factory "Chetvertyi krabolov" during WWII I know nothing - only that the ship was abandoned in USA because of bad technical condition in 1944.

About crabber/crab factory "Itelmen" I found the short info that Japanese patrol boats tried to capture the ship in July 1942 but Soviet border aviation prevented that.

Fish factory "Pishchevaya industriya" was an interesting ship. It was the cargo-passenger liner of the project, similar in many technical details with famous "Titanic"-type liners. The ship was built in 1909 and was used in beg.1930s as large storehouse for port rubbish in Great Britain. It was bought in 1935 and completelly reequipped in USSR into the large fish factory/refrigerator ship for Pacific Ocean. Since 1936 - flagship of Soviet Far-Eastern fishing fleet (17150 t). The large ship could survive once in the open Sea of Okhotsk under very strong tsunami (30 m high waves!), when a lot of smaller ships disappeared. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any photos of "Pishchevaya industriya" in Soviet service.

Crabber/crab factory "Menzhintskij" (not "Menzhintsev") was used as transport ship (transported ammunition and marines) during Kuril landing operation, August 1945.

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Pishchevaya Industriya

#200

Post by mjbollinger » 14 Mar 2006, 00:05

Re the purchase of Lake Class ships, I've reviewed the original letters of agreement for their sale. They are in the U.S. archives. Also, I'm the one who wrote the description of EASTPORT and other Russian ships on the Navsource.org web site.

Here is a photo of Pishchevaya Industriya for you:
Attachments
PI.jpg
PI.jpg (59.54 KiB) Viewed 1877 times

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Dido
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#201

Post by Dido » 14 Mar 2006, 09:06

A final word on the "crab" vessels: here is a photo of the KORYAK.

http://www.rybakprim.ru/arh51.htm

Unfortunately nothing further on her little documented story.

And while searching for those ships I came accross some information on the loss of the ILYICH (ex-EMPEROR NIKOLAI II), so here it is for whom it may interest:

"Capsized and sank on June 24 while tied up at Portland receiving alterations to her accommodations and new deck machinery. The vessel came to rest on her starboard side on the river bottom and became filled with silt and mud. She was later declared a total loss and the wreckage dismantled."
Last edited by Dido on 14 Mar 2006, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.

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#202

Post by BIGpanzer » 14 Mar 2006, 11:16

Where is the photo of crabber "Koryak", you've mentioned?! 8O
AFAIK "Koryak" was used also by AKO fleet in 1930s and damaged by ice in 1931 (repaired). It should be noted that US ships of "Lake"-type were not adapted for navigations in ice, so their use as transport ships during winter time by AKO (because of lack of Soviet-built and foreign transport ships with ice strengthening of the hull in AKO fleet) often caused damages of those crab ships.

Regarding "Ilyich": that was cargo-passenger steamer (4166 brutto-tons). It was indeed capsized suddenly and sank in 20 minutes 24.06.1944 at USA Portland mooring (the ship came from Vladivostok to Portland for repair in April 1944). All crew members (66 men) were saved, one was lost. The reason of capsizing is unknown (probably, sabotage).
"Ilyich" was an old steamer during WWII. It was built in Great Britain in 1894 according to the project of ROPiT (Russian Company of Steamships and Trade - powerful organization in tsarist Russia, the owner of 20% Russian ships) as "Imperor Nikolai II". Specifications: 3500 hp steam engine + rig, 390x45 feets, 14.5 knots, 384 t of cargos + 345 passengers. The ship was used along the prestigious Black Sea route (Odessa-Constanta-Alexandria). later transported settlers to Far-East and was used as auxiliary transport N29 during WWI. After Russian revolution - the ship was renamed as "Veche", returned back to Odessa port in 1920 and sank to prevent its capture. "Veche" was raised and repaired in 1922, renamed as "Ilyich". "Ilyich" was used as passenger ship along Crimea-Caucasus and Odessa-Alexandria routes in 1920s (once could survive during the heavy storm near Yalta with 3000 passengers on board). In 1925 came to London for repair, returned back to Odessa in 1926. Since 1934 till 1944 - cargo-passenger steamer of Far-East State Shipping Company (DGMP): routes Vladivostok-Kamchatka, Vladivostok - Sovgavan.

"Googled" photos:
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/120.jpg - "Imperor Nikolai II"
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/123.jpg - "Ilyich"
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/124.jpg - "Ilyich" as steamer of DGMP (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatskii
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/122.jpg - "Ilyich" during the storm near Yalta, beg.1920s picture

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#203

Post by BIGpanzer » 14 Mar 2006, 20:17

Regarding to the Black/Azov Seas ships, based on Russian cargo schooners for Azov Sea: universal ships of "Elpidifor"-type ("landing steamers"/transport ships) and cargo schooners of "Pioner"-type.
I believe that
1) 17 "Pioner"s were built in USSR: 7 by Sevastopol Marine Works + 10 by Odessa Dockyard
2) 20 "Elpidifor"s were built in Russia/USSR (2 were unfinished): all by Nikolaev Shipyard

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#204

Post by BIGpanzer » 17 Mar 2006, 09:36

Continue my list..........

III. Soviet civil ships, were captured/interned in foreign ports during the first days of German-Soviet war (June 1941), including numbers of captured/interned sailors

Baltic Shipping Company:

1 "Volgoles", cargo diesel ship, 3946 brt, 35 men, Stettin.
2 "Dnestr", cargo refrigerator steamer, 3580 brt, 35 men, Stettin
3 "Kaganovich", cargo steamer, 3663 t, 43 men, Lubeck
4 "Magnitogorsk", cargo steamer, 3566 brt, 39 men, Danzig
5 "Khasan", cargo diesel ship, 3979 brt, 36 men, Stettin
6 "Elton", cargo steamer, 1799 brt, 32 men, Stettin

Latvian Shipping Company:

7 “Andreis Kalninsh”, steamer, 3002 brt, 30 men, Lubeck
8 “Ariya”, steamer, 3678 brt, 28 men, Lubeck
9 “Ausma”, steamer, 1905 brt, 23 men, Stettin
10 “Valdona”, steamer, 3042 brt, 9 men, Rotterdam
11 “Gauya”, steamer, 1408 brt, 19 men, Stettin
12 “Gundega”, steamer, 3583 brt, 30 men, Lubeck
13 “Dole”, steamer, 3811 brt, 28 men, Lubeck
14 “Kangars”, steamer, 2722 brt, 28 men, Hamburg
15 “Kaupo”, steamer, 2905 brt, 27 men, Lubeck
16 “Klints”, steamer, 1250 brt, Lisbon
17 “Konsul P. Danneberg”, steamer, 2747 brt, 25 men, Stettin
18 “Krivs”, steamer, 1340 brt, 20 men, Hamburg
19 “Sports”, steamer, 3283 brt, 24 men, Danzig
20 “Tautmila”, steamer, 3724 brt, 6 men, Rotterdam
21 “Everonika”, steamer, 3743 brt, 30 men, Lubeck
22 “Evertons”, steamer, 4107 brt, 35 men, Stettin

Estonian Shipping Company:

23 “Gun”, sailing schooner, 1600 brt, Copenhagen
24 “Irene”, 620 brt, Copenhagen
25 “Kadri”, steamer, 2775 brt, 31 men, Gotenhafen
26 “Koidula”, steamer, 3741 brt, 34 men, Lubeck
27 “Mai”, steamer, 1549 brt, Stockholm
28 “Peet”, steamer, 2111 brt, 31 men, Istada (Sweden)
29 “Sigrid”, steamer, 1809 brt, 28 men, Stettin
30 “Tallin”, steamer, 7800 brt, 40 men, Gotenhafen
31 “Toomas”, steamer, 1372 brt, Sweden
32 “Hildur”, steamer, 1856 brt, 28 men, Hamburg
33 “Egon”, steamer, 607 brt, Denmark
34 “Estonia”, cargo-passenger steamer, 1080 brt, 30 men, at sea between Stockholm and Tallinn
35 “Julia”, steamer, 1893 brt, 28 men, Koenigsberg

All Soviet ships of Narkommorflot (People’s Commissariat of Sea Fleet), stayed at German ports (with the grain on board mainly), received the radio messages from the ships at sea that the war began 22.06.1941, but there were no official messages from Soviet government till the morning 23.06.1941 (the order to go to Soviet ports). That delay caused the capture of 32 ships with 900 crewmembers at German ports. Many captains of Soviet ships apprehended the danger even several days before 22.06.1941 as German port inspectors began to confiscate some ship’s documents. But Soviet consuls and trading representatives in Germany always called such captains as alarmists because of existence of Soviet-German non-aggression pact of 1939.
Early morning 22.06.1941 German soldiers captured the ships and arrested their crewmembers (almost all crews could deleted all important ship’s documents before and didn’t haul down Soviet flags). All Soviet sailors were transported to concentration camps and in two weeks were collected at one camp near Berlin, Blankenfeld (only 58 Soviet sailors from them were transported to Turkey for the exchange on German sailors, interned at Soviet ports). Since 01.10.1942 almost all Soviet sailors were in prison at Bavarian prison Wuerzburg

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BIGpanzer
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#205

Post by BIGpanzer » 17 Mar 2006, 13:21

Does anybody know what type was "Khasan" (3979 brt), which was captured in Stettin (see above)?
As Soviets preferred to built diesel sea ships before WWII (in general, steamers were old tsarist Russian-built ships or imported foreign ships) I suppose that "Khasan" was built in USSR.....

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Khasan

#206

Post by mjbollinger » 17 Mar 2006, 19:46

Khasan has an unusual history. It appears to have been sold by Germany to the USSR in the months prior to June 22, 1941 and then taken in prize when war broke out.

Khasan (Хасан)
Builder: Schiffswerft von Henry Koch A.G.
Location: Lübeck
3979 GRT

Chronology:
1928 Completed as PALATIA (Hamburg-Amerika Linie) 10.28
1941 KHASAN (BGMP) sold by Germany to USSR
1941 PALATIA (Deutsches Reich) taken by Germany in Stettin on 22.06.41
1942 Torpedoed by British AC off Kristiansand 21.10.42

MB

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#207

Post by BIGpanzer » 17 Mar 2006, 21:47

Thanks for the info, Marty!

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#208

Post by BIGpanzer » 18 Mar 2006, 21:33

Marty!
As you could see I posted the full lists (7th, 7th, and 17th March) of Soviet ships, which were exploded/sunk in Soviet ports to prevent their capture and which were captured/interned in foreign ports during the first days of the war.

In many details my full list is in accordance with your (in some small details - not, please check).
But the most big differences are the following:

1. There were no names "Balaklava" and "Mars" in the list of Soviet sea ships, were lost during WWII.
2. I couldn't find any info about the unfinished ship "Stepan Razin" you've mentioned.

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Stepan Razin

#209

Post by mjbollinger » 19 Mar 2006, 17:44

Here is some info I have. This ship has been hard to track down...

1939 Launched as STEPAN RAZIN (ChGMP)
1941 Scuttled unfinished; raised by Germans
1942 Taken by Germans to Nikolaev; launched 08.42
1942 ALARICH (Deutsches Reich)
1944 Scuttled at Braila; refloated by Soviets
1956 STEPNOV (ChGMP) returned to service
1964 STEPNOV (ChMP)
196- STEPNOV (AMP)
1971 Broken up in the USSR

This information is confirmed by the 1967 Lloyds Register.

Here is what I have on BALAKLAVA. It was never returned to service.
1898 Completed as AI-TODOR (ROPiT)
1916 No.4 (ChF) mobilized as transport 21.03.16
1917 Under Soviet control 12.16.17
1918 Siezed by German troops 05.18
1918 Under control of White Guards 11.18
1920 AI-TODOR (Chernomortran)
1922 BALAKLAVA (GChAP) 01.09.22
1924 BALAKLAVA (STF-ChAGK) 01.10.24
1926 BALAKLAVA (STF-ChGK)
1934 BALAKLAVA (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1941 BALAKLAVA (ChABU)
1941 Found scuttled Odessa 16.09.41; raised
1944 Recaptured by Soviets at Galatz 08.44; incomplete repairs; Broken up

As for MARS, well this is a very confusing ship. Here is what I have recorded:

1912 Completed as WAAL (N.V. Houtvaart) 05.12
1918 Requisitioned at Sunderland 03.18
1918 WAAL (Shipping Controller)
1919 Returned to owners
1936 MARS (J. Rang)
1940 Claimed by USSR while in Sweden 06.40
1940 MARS (EGMP) nationalized by USSR 29.10.40
1941 VT-533 (BF) as transport 07.41
1941 PB-5 (BF) as depot ship 08.41
1941 Scuttled in Tallinn 28.08.41
1941 Refloated by Germans ?
1945 Reported broken up

Most accounts say the ship was never refloated and subsequently broken up where it sank. However, a diver found the bell of a ship named WAAL off Palanga, Lithuania some years ago and the general description of the wreck matches MARS. No one has been able to explain this to me, so I haven't reached a firm conclusion on this ship yet.

Marty

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#210

Post by BIGpanzer » 20 Mar 2006, 03:32

As for "Balaklava" - I found differ info. 10-16 October 1942 mine-layer "Komintern", transports "Balaklava", "Kamyshin" and "Lepse" were scuttled according to the order of military council of Black Sea Navy (ChF) to create an offshore breakwater at river Hobi offing where naval base was located. Three transports were raised after WWII. Probably, that is why I couldn't find the name "Balaklava" in the list of Soviet ships, which were exploded/scuttled in Soviet ports to prevent their capture - "Balaklava" was completely differ case.........

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