Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 06 Apr 2006 23:43

The detailed info about the famous combat between Soviet old ice-breaking steamer "Alexander Sibiryakov" (ex-Canadian "Bellaventure", built in 1908) and German battleship "Admiral Scheer" 25.07.1942 see here - my post from 31.07.2005 named Operation "Wunderland" :wink:
In 1945 the name "Alexander Sibiryakov" was given to ex-Finnish ice-breaker "Ieekarhu" (built in 1926), received as the part of war reparations.

Interesting that DGMP got almost all Lend-Lease ships despite the fact that the losses of DGMP ships were much more less than of BGMP or ChGMP ships, which participated in dangerous and combat operations during the whole war. The main reason was almost impossible transportation of new ships to the war regions of Black Sea and Baltic Sea as me seems.


BP
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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Apr 2006 08:28

Marty!
Do you have some additional info about Soviet-built tankers of "Soyuz"-type ("Iosif Stalin", "Sergo", etc.) - how many were built, their specifications and fate?
I know only two types of Soviet sea tankers of WWII period - oil tankers of "Lenin"-type for Caspian Sea, 12600 t (11 + 1 were built in 1930-1936) and universal tankers of "Moskva"-type for Black Sea, 13250 t (4 were built in 1928-1941). We discussed those tankers many times above.

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Post by Dido » 07 Apr 2006 11:37

BIGpanzer wrote: AFAIK the last two ("Tbilisi" and "Alexander Suvorov") were removed from active service only in the beginning of 1980s (AMP, Azov Shipping Company).
Another of the last survivors was the Sovetskaya Gavan which was scrapped in 1990. Check the following link for a picture in the breakers:
http://www.naviosmercantesbrasileiros.h ... iberty.htm

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Soviet Tanker Classes

Post by mjbollinger » 07 Apr 2006 13:48

BP,

Will get to individual in a while when I have more time. Here are the classes of Soviet tankers built in the WWII era. The class names are mine -- not necessarily official. Moreover, names of these ships changed frequently -- I have all of them but didn't bother to list them.

1. Two "Admiral" class cruiser conversions in 1926 (ADMIRAL GRIEG, ADMIRAL SPIRIDOV)

2. A one-off tanker KRASNIYA NIKOLAEV built in 1929

3. Twelve "Lenin" class tankers built in the 1930s (with some completed later). We have discussed these.

4. Four "Mossoviet" class tankers built in the early 1930s: SAKHALIN, AZERBAIDZHAN, URAL, MOSSOVIET

5. Five "Sergo" class tankers built in the early 1930s: SOYUZ GORNORABOCHIKH SSSR, SOYUZ VODNIKOV, SOYUZ METALLISTOV, URAL, DONBASS

6. Three small "Baku" class tankers built in the early 1930s: BAKU, PEREDOVIK, MAIKOP

There were also some tankers procured overseas, some of which were "one offs" but others were within specific classes. One off acquistions include APSHERSON (1923), BATUMI, TUAPSE (1931), VARLAAM AVENESOV (1932) and the Tanker No-2 (ex. OSSAG II) that we have already discussed.

7. Two large "Boris Sheboldaev" tankers built in France: BORIS SHEBOLDAEV, SOVIETSKAYA NEFT

8. Six tankers (?) built by Mitsubishi in the late 1930s. These appear to come in two classes based on similarity of configuration. One set was MAKSIM GORKII and KOMSOMOLETS. Four others were NENETS, T.2/KRASNOARMEYETS, T.3/Tanker No.3, YUKAGIR. These ships continue to confuse me -- one of the areas least well documented. Any information on this is greatly appreciated.

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Apr 2006 23:53

Thank you very much for the info about Soviet tankers, Marty!
mjbollinger wrote:
Two "Admiral" class cruiser conversions in 1926 (ADMIRAL GRIEG, ADMIRAL SPIRIDOV)
I know this type of Soviet-built tankers, but I don't mention them in my request as they were cruiser conversions but not the ships, designed as tankers.
The correct name for the first one is "Admiral Greig" :)

Here is the quote from my post (March, 7th):
As for incompleted Russian cruisers "Admiral Spiridov" and "Admiral Greig" (both of "Svetlana"-type 9000 t, laid down in 1913, launched in 1916 - St. Petersburg, Putilov Shipyard and Revel, Shipyard of Russian-Baltic Association): they were rebuilt in 1924 as diesel tankers/fuelers "Grozneft" (by North Shipyard, Leningrad) and "Azneft" (by Baltic Shipyard, Leningrad), correspondingly. The hulls of new tankers were equipped with several oil tanks, nose hold for dry cargos, two submarine diesels of "Russian diesel" plant. Armor belt (75mm) was not removed. Both tankers were given 24.12.1926 to the Oil State Company (Neftesindikat) and transferred to Black Sea. During that navigation both diesel ships were damaged by ice in Baltic Sea (despite the armor belt) and moved to Germany for repair.
Tankers "Grozneft" and "Azneft" were the first Soviet-built large diesel tankers, but they were not very good because of rebuilding from cruisers (some hull disadvantages were eleminated by Sevastopol Shipyard later, but many others remained - low speed, inefficient diesels). They were used as oil tankers between Black Sea and Mediterranean Sea ports in 1930s. Tanker "Grozny" you are interested in was indeed ex-"Grozneft" (renamed in the mid1930s).
"Azneft" sank in the end of 1936 near Tuapse, Black Sea (it was broken in two pieces during stormy weather after collision with harbor seawall as the reequipped cruiser hull was overstrained).
"Grozny" (AGMP) was damaged by artillery fire at Mariupol 08.10.1941 and scuttled by its crew in port. Probably, it was repaired by Germans later, but I don't have exact info.

Specifications: 5900 t cargo capacity (max. 10000 t of oil); 158.4x15.3x7.9 m; 1100 Kw engines (2xdiesels); 10.5 knots; 42 men crew.

Photo:
tanker "Azneft" on sea trials, 1927: http://www.bz.ru/images/shazneft.jpg
As for additional info about those tankers I have - "Grozneft" was renamed as "Grozny and was used as nonself-propelled barge-fueler since 1934 because of obsolete preWWI submarine diesels technical problems, since 1938 - lie up at Mariupol. I found an additional info about the ship - it was raised by the Germans in the beginning of 1942 and was used as fueler for German/Romanian/Bulgarian ships during 1.5 years (till 09.1943, Azov Sea). Later it was scuttled by Germans to prevent the capture by Soviets, raised again 01.07.1944 (by Soviet rescue service of ChF) and was used as fueler/bulk plant depot till 1952. So that planned modern light cruiser had the worsest fate for the warship :| .

Hulls of light cruisers of "Svetlana"-type on berth ("Admiral Butakov" and "Admiral Spiridov"), 1915: http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/035/02035001.jpg
Hull of the light cruiser "Admiral Spiridov" at fitting-out berth, 1917 (future tanker "Grozneft"): http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/035/02035002.jpg

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Post by BIGpanzer » 08 Apr 2006 00:20

mjbollinger wrote:
Twelve "Lenin" class tankers built in the 1930s (with some completed later). We have discussed these.
Only "General Aziaslanov" was not completed before WWII (so many sources even don't mention that tanker), other 11 tankers (12600 t) were in use. Yes, we've already posted some info about all ot those Caspian tankers here.
I just have one small question - as I couldn't find any info about such Soviet general do you spell his name correct? Could you write this name on Russian for additional check?


Regards, BP
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Post by BIGpanzer » 08 Apr 2006 09:20

Marty! I've checked the info you've posted and found mistake!
mjbollinger wrote:
A one-off tanker KRASNIYA NIKOLAEV built in 1929
That was tanker "Krasny Nikolaev" (or it is possible to write its name as "Krasnyi Nikolaev", but "Krasniya" is completely wrong)........
Also that was not one-off tanker but the first tanker in the series of 6 tankers you've mentioned: "Krasny Nikolaev" ("Embaneft", "Emba"), "Soyuz gornorabochih" ("Sergo"), "Soyuz metallistov" ("Nikolai Yanson", "Vayan Kutyur'e"), "Soyuz vodnikov" ("Kreml"), "I. Stalin" ("Ural") and "Donbass".
Those were the first Soviet-built sea tankers (tankers of "Embaneft"-type) and they were developed by design office Sudoproekt (Leningrad).

"Krasny Nikolaev" was laid down 07.11.1925 by Marty Nikolaev Shipyard (ex-"Naval" Shipyard, future Black Sea Shipyard), Nikolaev. Launched in 1927 as "Embaneft", accepted by merchant navy in 1929. It was used (as well as other tankers of the series) as oil-carrying vessel along routes Black Sea-Baltic Sea-Pacific Ocean in 1930s by Sovtanker Shipping Company. Since the beginning of war - transported oil, ammunition, soldiers to the Black Sea ports and evacuated civilians and equipment.
"Embaneft" ("Emba") was damaged by air fire bomb 29.01.1942 (engine compartment was destroyed and could not be repaired) near Kerch (port Kamysh-Burun) and was towed to Sukhumi 05.1942 (as nonself-propelled fueler there). 30.07.1943 - the waterlogged ship was torpedoed (two torpedos) at Sukhumi by German submarine U-24.
Specifications of tankers of "Embaneft"-type: 15874 t (10780 t deadweight); 137.6x17.8x8.5 m; 2xdiesels 2060 Kw total; 11.5 knots.
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Tankers

Post by mjbollinger » 08 Apr 2006 13:28

Thanks. Yes, I know it is KRASNYI not KRASNIYA and GREIG not GRIEG -- typos only. I'm usually in the back of a car when typing these things. But thanks for checking.

Yes, KRASNYI NIKOLAEV was similar to the other five but I have never confirmed that they were built to the same drawings. My information is that constuction started in 1919 and then was suspended until being restarted in 1925, as opposed to the others which were new starts. Also, it is slightly larger at 7,886 GRT vs 7,600-7,700 for most of the others. My most authoritative source reports that the following series of five ships was "almost the same" as KRASNYI NIKOLAEV. Can you confirm they are the same class?

The proper spelling should be GENERAL AZI ASLANOV. His biography reads (from the internet):

General Azi Aslanov was born at 1910 in southern city of Lenkoran in Azerbaijan. From the first day of World War 2 he found himself fighting with invading nazi forces in Ukraine.Tank brigade under his commadership run from Stalingrad through Borisovo, Vileyka, and Minsk to Vilnus and Riga. On 24 of January 1945 he met his death during new operation bringing freedom to people of occupied Baltic Republics. In the memory of Azerbaijan people his name has left forever as a hero who died in the name of freedom.

MB

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Post by BIGpanzer » 08 Apr 2006 23:34

Dear Marty!
I expended several hours today in making search about types of Soviet tankers we are discussing about.
So what I can confirm.

1. In reality 11 medium tankers of "Lenin"-type were built in 1930-1936 by "Krasnoe Sormovo" Shipyard (first six - for oil transportation and the last five - for petrol transportation). Tanker "General Azi Aslanov" (thanks a lot for the info about general Azi Aslanov, I found also that he was awarded by two Stars of the Hero of USSR) was built by "Krasnoe Sormovo" Shipyard too, but it is more correct to mention it as the tanker of another (but similar in some details) type.
"General Azi Aslanov" was built only in 1950, had larger cargo capacity than preWWII tankers of "Lenin"-type (9300 t instead of 8500 t) and the most important fact - that tanker for petrol transportation was the first Soviet-built sea diesel-electric ship (two electromotors, 1250 hp each). Tankers of "Lenin"-type had two usual diesels, 1250 hp each.

2. First Soviet-built sea tanker "Krasnyi Nikolaev" was completely of the same project as five other tankers of "Embaneft"-type. It was laid down 07.11.1925 by Marty Nikolaev Shipyard (the year 1919 seems completely impossible as it was the chaos time of Russian Civil war and city Nikolaev was captured by White forces in 1919, being the place of hard combats). The slight difference (7700 - 7886 brt) in displacements between "Embaneft" tankers means nothing - it could be the difference in literature sources or small increase of displacements after technical improvements (for example, my different sources give 7700-7925 brt for tanker "Donbass").
The project of "Embaneft"-type tankers was developed by Sudoproekt (Leningrad) in 1924 (additional proof of impossibility of 1919 as the year of laying). Young Soviet state began the foreign oil trade in 1922 just after the end of Civil war, but had no modern sea tankers. The state of things became intolerant and as the stopgap measure two unfinished because of WWI/Civil war light cruisers were rebuilt as tankers. In parallel the project of new modern sea tanker was quickly developed - that was the project of "Embaneft"-type large tankers.

Regards, BP

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Post by BIGpanzer » 09 Apr 2006 11:58

As for the Soviet large-capacity diesel tankers of "Neftesindikat SSSR"-type: two were built in France (Chantiers Naval Francais, Caen) under the supervision of famous Russian shipbuilder A.N. Krylov: "Neftesindikat SSSR" ("Boris Sheboldaev") and "Sovetskaya neft".

Here is the quote of my letter from 29 June, 2005:
"Sovietskaya neft" or shortly "Sovneft" ("Soviet Oil") was one of the first Soviet large tankers. It and another one "Neftesindikat SSSR" ("Oil syndicate of USSR") were built in 1929 in France for USSR, under supervision of Soviet engineers. "Sovietskaya neft" was used at Black Sea, Baltic Sea and Pacific Ocean in 1930s for oil and petrol transportation. The ship became famous all over the world in 1932, when its crew rescued 437 men from the burning French liner "Georges Philippar" (largest and most modern French liner, 21000 t) after receiving the "SOS" in Indian Ocean. Almost all members of the Soviet crew of "Sovietskaya neft" were awarded with Soviet and French decorations after the extremelly dangerous rescue operation. Also French government decided to allow the ship stay at all French ports and harbors free of charge for term of life.
During the Spanish Civil War the ship made the navigations to Spain with oil and military cargos. When WWII began, "Sovietskaya neft" was used in dangerous operations (Black Sea) to deliver cargos, tanks and trucks; also it evacuated wounded men, equipment and wheat from the occupied Soviet territories.
Germans torpedoed and bombed the ship in October 1941, but the crew of "Sovietskaya neft" could defend the ship with the help of several AA guns and repair the damages during two days in the open sea. So ship reached Sevastopol and even evacuated the civilians and cargos.
In March 1942 the ship was damaged again during the raid of German bombers against Tuapse port. So it was used till the end of the war as the immovable port oil tank (was towed from Tuapse to Batumi). After the war the ship was completely repaired and reequipped. It was used at Far-Eastern routes (Pacific Ocean) as oil tanker till 1964. Removed from service in 1969 and was used as nonself-propelled fueler for "Dalryba" company at Vladivostok.

Specifications: 17500 t; 143 x 17,3 x 8,9 m; 2 diesels (2060 kW total); 11 knots.

Photos of tanker "Sovietskaya neft":
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/113.jpg (in camouflage painting at Vladivostok port, Pacific Ocean)
http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/114.jpg (rescue operation of French liner "Georges Philippar" (Indian Ocean). To the right side - tanker "Sovietskaya neft" with her life-boats)
http://www.morvesti.ru/img/books/steam5.jpg (picture of the rescue operation; in front - tanker "Sovietskaya neft"; behind - French liner "Georges Philippar")

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Tankers

Post by mjbollinger » 09 Apr 2006 12:37

Thanks, BP.

The reason I include GENERAL AZI ASLANOV in the category of LENIN tankers is that it was started at the same time with the same design. I understand it was laid down in 1935 and then construction was suspended until after WWII when the technical improvments you describe were made.

As for KRASNYI NIKOLAEV, the 1919 date is spurious and it should read November, 7 1925 as the date the keel was laid. I wonder if there is, however, a relationship between this ship and the tanker BAKU / LIANOZOV launched around 1917 and taken out of the country still incomplete in 1920.


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Post by BIGpanzer » 09 Apr 2006 14:10

mjbollinger wrote:
As for KRASNYI NIKOLAEV, the 1919 date is spurious and it should read November, 7 1925 as the date the keel was laid. I wonder if there is, however, a relationship between this ship and the tanker BAKU / LIANOZOV launched around 1917 and taken out of the country still incomplete in 1920.
Dear Marty!
Tanker "Baku" ("Stepan Lianozov") was also laid down at Nikolaev ("Naval" Shipyard since 1897, future Marty Nikolaev Shipyard) as later tankers of "Embaneft"-type, so some design similarities between those tankers could be. But as I've already mentioned "Embaneft" tankers were designed as independent project in 1924.

As for "Baku" - Russian partnership association of oil production "G.M. Lianozov & sons" (Baku) ordered that large tanker (7350-7700 t cargo capacity) in 1912. "Naval" Shipyard at Nikolaev should finish the ship till 01.01.1914. "Baku" was planned as the very modern large oil tanker with diesel engines. "G.M. Lianozov & sons" bought a German license for the schemes of Krupp tanker as well as for the German diesels production because of lack of experience in developing such complicated and large ships.
Universal (oil/petrol) tanker "Stepan Lianozov" had the following specifications: two screws, two decks, 8000 t cargo capacity and 12200 t full displacement, 127.4x16.15x7.72 m, 10.5 knots. The tanker was equipped with 14 main tanks and several auxiliary (so-called "summer") tanks, also with two 6-cyl. diesels 1150 hp each + two engines for compressors 275 hp each.
"Stepan Lianozov" was the first Russian-build long-range large sea ship with diesels.
"Naval" Shipyard laid down the ship only 27.10.1913 and launched 07.03.1915 because of technical problems and WWI (a lot of orders for warships production). Russian Navy Department planned to confiscate the tanker for military transportation, so "G.M. Lianozov & sons" began to negotiate with the Navy Department about money compensation. It was a good economic transaction for Russian oil businessmen from the "Lianozov..." company as they received the full cost of the ship (1440000 gold rubles - a lot of money, several tens of millions dollars in present course) + 6% of annual rates + 125000 rubles of compensation. And in any case they couldn't use their tanker because of WWI naval operations in Black and Mediterranean Seas.
So 09.06.1916 the new tanker was accepted by Russian navy as oil-carrying diesel transport "Baku" (99% finished condition), it was sea tested during the August 1916 and some technical problems with the diesels of German origin were found. The ship was under engine repair till October 1917 and was tested again in December 1917. "Baku" was at Nikolaev during the German occupation, 1918. Later the ship was captured by Antanta forces there and was given to Russian White Forces. Since February 1920 - in Constantinople (where the naval base of Russian White Forces located after leaving Russia), in February 1921 the navy of Russian White Forces moved from Constantinople to Bizerta (Tunisia). In April 1922 French government took the Russian tanker as well as some other modern ships for debts of White Forces. "Baku" was renamed as "Loire" and was used by French Navy till the middle of 1930s.

PS. AFAIK S. Lianozov was the very well-known and rich Russian oil businessman before the Revolution 1917, he supported also Russian industry and theatres and was the direct competitor of Rotshilds and other Western businessmen in Black Sea trading region.

And small additional info about Soviet "Liberties" - the first was "Krasnogvardeets" (beg.1943, DGMP), MGMP received "Tbilisi" and "Sergej Kirov" in 1944, USSR still used 46 "Liberties" in the end of 1960s.

Marty, I think I should be the co-author of your future book or at least the consultant :lol:
Regards, BP
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Krasnogvardeets

Post by mjbollinger » 09 Apr 2006 20:00

Date of transfer: 28.01.43

I am certainly willing to engage you to proof the drafts to make sure there are no mistakes. Don't expect to have these for about 1 year.

MB

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Post by BIGpanzer » 10 Apr 2006 09:26

Marty, I will help you with pleasure in any way I can (at the moment I am checking the drafts of my new book at the office, but this book has nothing common with military :wink: )

Some additional info about one of the Soviet largest diesel tankers of "Neftesindikat SSSR"-type.

"Sovetskaya neft" became world famous after extremelly dangerous rescue operation of the passengers from heavy burning French ocean liner "Georges Philippar" on 17 May 1932 during the navigation Vladivostok-Tuapse in Indian Ocean. All instructions strictly prohibited even empty tankers to participate in fire rescue operations after receiving SOS signals to avoid tank explosions (tankers should inform other ships in such cases only), but the captain of "Sovneft" A. Alekseev decided to start rescue operating and life-boats from the tanker saved 437 French passengers and crewmembers. A.Alekseev and many Soviet crewmembers were awarded with French and Soviet decorations, also one rescued French millionaire would like to present check for 5 milliones franks to Soviet captain, but A. Alekseev refused to take money.
As I've mentioned above "Sovetskaya neft" transported military cargos, oil and marines during the first years of WWII, evecuated civilians and corn (single and convoy navigations to Odessa, Sevastopol, Feodosia, Poti). In October 1941 the ship was damaged by bombs and torpedo, but survived. In March 1942 the tanker was havily damaged and almost sunk by German bombers during the air raid against Tuapse port and was towed to Batumi after that (was used as nonself-propelled fueler till the end of WWII). "Sovneft" was used as oil tanker along the Fer-Eastern routes after WWII (was lightly damaged by great explosion 19.12.1947 in Nagaevo port, where steamer "General Vatutin", full of explosions for mine works, exploded).

"Neftesindikat SSSR" (later renamed as "Boris Sheboldaev") ran aground near North-West Spanish coast because of captain's mistake in 1934 and was broken in two parts.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 10 Apr 2006 22:46

As for lost during WWII Soviet tankers - also "Yalta" should be mentioned (small tanker, 611 brt - Sovtanker Company, Black Sea). "Yalta" was sunk by German bombers during the air raid against Tuapse port 24.03.1942, but the ship was raised by rescue service of ChF in 1942 and repaired in 1945.

Another small tanker, lost in Black Sea, was "Mikhail Gromov" (836 brt) - it was sunk by 12 German torpedo bombers during the navigation Tuapse-Sevastopol with petrol on board 02.06.1942. 6 crewmembers were lost, other were saved from burning water by escorting ships (two mine-sweepers and four patrol boats).

Also small tanker "Kulibekov" (1754 brt) was lost in Caspian Sea. That tanker with passengers on board made navigation Astrakhan-Bautino 15.11.1942, towing three small auxiliary vessels (dredge, lighter and barge). Three warships escorted the convoy. "Kulibekov" was attacked by four Ju-88 bombers and sunk by three direct bomb hits. 4 men were lost, 43 men (including 12 children) were rescued by patrol boats.

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