Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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asiaticus
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Ask your question on this forum:

Post by asiaticus » 03 Aug 2005 10:15

Ask your question on this Russian forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/116312

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Post by BIGpanzer » 03 Aug 2005 15:57

Thanks, asiaticus!
Probably, I will try to do it.
However, I only wanted to find some info about Soviet merchant navy during WWII, because that was almost completely unknown subject of interest for me. As you can see I found a lot of interesting info as me seems. Probably, I will write several posts more for the interest of forum members and will finish it, as now I have some info about types of Soviet transport ships and their losses.

The another problem is that I've read several Russian forum pages (on English and on Russian), trying to find some additional info about Russian armored vehicles and military history. I realized that many Russian guys used very often an obsolete data from Soviet books, so I don't believe 100% to such info. Nevertheless, it is possible to find interesting photos on such forum pages, that's truth. Of course, a lot of info, posted by Russians, may be is truthful (based on British, US or Russian modern sources), but anyway I need to check it.

Regards, BIGpanzer

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Soviet arctic icebreakers during WWII (part II)

Post by BIGpanzer » 05 Aug 2005 17:12

The most powerful Soviet icebreakers of WWII period were four arctic large icebreakers of “I.Stalin” type (improved design of “Krasin”-type, see above). They were built in 1938-1941 by Baltic and Nikolaev shipyards. It was also planned to build two additional icebreakers of the same type, but with diesel engines (12000-14000 hp) instead of steam engines. But diesel arctic ice-breakers were not finished at that time because of large naval building program. All four arctic icebreakers were equipped with three very powerful radio stations and three seaplanes each; also they had scientific labs, workshops and electric power stations, they were the most well equipped Soviet civil ships of that period. During WWII they were used as auxiliary cruisers and armed icebreakers, guided polar convoys through the whole North Sea Route, North Atlantic, Baltic Sea. Despite the strong bomber and artillery attacks all four icebreakers survived the war.

Specifications: 11242 t; 106.7 m x 28.1 m; 15.5 knots; 3 steam engines – 9900-11400 hp total; 115-190 men crew, 6000-10000 miles range.

"I. Stalin" - it was the flagship icebreaker of Soviet arctic fleet. Participated in dangerous rescue operation (1940) of Soviet icebreaking ship "Sedov", which was ice-bound (4-5 m ice thickness) for 814 days. "I. Stalin" guided the north arctic (including PQ-QP) convoys and military ships during the whole WWII as armed icebreaker, lightly damaged by German bombers. Arctic icebreakers guided 36 ships (4 convoys) during the winter 1942/43. "I. Stalin" (renamed as "Siberia") was used as icebreaker till 1973, at the moment it serves as port base for geologists (Russian Far-East).

http://geo.1september.ru/2001/05/9_2.jpg ("I. Stalin" at Greenland Sea, ice and heavy storm, 1940)
http://vmk.vif2.ru/battles/WWII/Shedrol ... /pic25.jpg ("I. Stalin" guided the destroyer "Razymny")

"V. Molotov" - was reequipped as auxiliary cruiser (3x130 mm + 2x76.2mm + 4x7.62mm MGs) of Baltic Navy in August 1941. Since October 1941 it participated in the defense of Leningrad against raids of German bombers, was damaged by German bomd, but repaired. Also "V.Molotov" guided ships and submarines at the Gulf of Finland (37 ships in 1941) as icebreaker. Since 1942 - armed icebreaker of the Baltic Navy, 130mm guns were removed. Since 1944 - armed icebreaker (2x45mm guns) of the North Navy, guided north convoys to Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. Scrapped in 1967.

http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/cruisers/pic/v_molotov.jpg (auxiliary cruiser "V. Molotov" in camouflage, Leningrad, 1941)
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/cruisers/pic/molotov_ld.jpg (silhouette of auxiliary cruiser "V. Molotov")

"L. Kaganovich" - armed icebreaker (with 47 light guns and MGs) during WWII. It guided north convoys and military ships through the North Sea Route from Murmansk to Far-East during the whole WWII. But in summer 1940 according to peaceful Soviet-German treaty it guided together with "I. Stalin" the German auxiliary cruiser "Comet" through the North Sea Route, so "Comet" could find out many data about north weather as well as about Soviet north ports. Nevertheless, Soviet government ordered to stop guiding the German cruiser, but "Comet" could reach along the Pacific Ocean, where it sank 9 British ships and desorganize British communications. In February 1943 "L. Kaganovich", guided the convoy JW52, was attacked by 6 German bombers, but it could defend by AA fire. It was served as arctic icebreaker till late 1960s.

“A. Mikoyan” – was reequipped as auxiliary cruiser during its final building after beginning of the war (Black Sea, Nikolaev shipyard). Was armed with 5-7x130mm + 4x76.2mm + 6x45mm + 4x7.62mm MGs. It supported by artillery fire the Soviet infantry during the defense of Odessa in 1941 and destroyed two German coastal batteries; it participated also in defense of Sevastopol (1941) and evacuated cargos and civilians from that port, brought down several German bombers. Icebreaker was lightly damaged by bombs and shells, but was repaired.
"A. Mikoyan" made very dangerous navigation (25.11.1941 – 09.08.1942) from Black Sea through Mediterranean Sea, Red Sea, Atlantic Ocean, and Pacific Ocean to Far-Eastern Chukotka (25000 miles), where it started to guide ships and convoys as powerful icebreaker. “A. Mikoyan” had not any armament during that navigation, according to the treaty with neutral Turkey, which didn’t allow passing armed ships through Bosphore. Unarmed icebreaker was attacked by three Italian torpedo-boats at Mediterranean Sea, but could avoid all torpedoes. Light Italian guns and MGs from torpedo-boats couldn’t damage the strong hull of arctic icebreaker, but next day “A. Mikoyan” was attacked by two Italian flying boats, again avoiding torpedoes and any heavy damages. Nevertheless, it lost burnt motor life-boats and had near 500 small hits in the superstructures, so it went for the short repair to the British naval base at Cyprus. Then it continued its navigation….Since September 1942 – the armed ice-breaker at North Sea Route, was armed with 4x76.2mm + 10x20mm + 4x12.7mm MGs + 4x7.62mm MGs. It guided transport and military ships. In December 1942 the ship was heavily damaged by German mine, but could reach the port. USSR didn't have such large docks at the north ports, so damaged "A. Mikoyan" made the arctic north navigation to US Seattle for repair, guiding in parallel the convoy! Later it continued to serve as arctic icebreaker, scrapped only in late 1960s.

http://www.kapustin.boom.ru/icebreaker/ ... s/m001.jpg ("A. Mikoyan" during the arctic navigation, WWII photo)
http://www.kapustin.boom.ru/icebreaker/ ... s/m002.jpg
http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/ships/mikojan_1.gif (blueprints)
http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/ships/mikojan_3.jpg (auxiliary cruiser "A. Mikoyan", Black Sea, 1941)

Photo of the Soviet icebreaker of "I. Stalin" type (4 copies, 1938-1941)
is from http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/cruisers/pic/mikoyan.jpg


This is "A. Mikoyan" as auxiliary cruiser
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schooners were used as mine-sweepers & landing crafts

Post by BIGpanzer » 06 Aug 2005 19:44

What I've found today.
Soviets also reequipped many small sea merchant ships into military vessels during WWII.

Two examples:
I. Baltic Sea Navy had 11 quite good gunboats of "Amgyun" type (previous Baltic dumb lighters, built in Germany for USSR in 1940).
Specifications: 1140 t; 59.5x11.9 m; steam engine 800 hp; 6-8 knots; 104 men crew.
Those dumb lighters were armed with 2-3x100mm + 3-4x45mm + 4x37mm + several MGs and used quite successfully against German and Finnish forces at Baltic Sea and Ladoga lake, participated in defence of Leningrad and Soviet landing operations against German and Finnish island garrisons, transported cargos and soldiers. Only two from eleven gunboats of this type were lost (one was exploded on mine, another was sank by German bombers). After WWII they served as usual dumb lighters till 1960s-1970s.
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/gunboats/pic/selemja.jpg (gunboat "Selemdzha" - previous dumb lighter)
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/gunboats/pic/nora.jpg (gunboat "Nora" - previous dumb lighter)
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/gunboats/pic/oka.jpg (gunboat "Oka" - previous dumb lighter)

II. Black Sea Navy used inshore transport motor schooners of "Pioneer"-type (17 were built in 1928-1935) as mine-sweepers and landing ships.
Specifications: 1960 t; 73.8x10.4 m; 2 diesels 2x375hp; 9.5 knots; 52 men crew.
Those motor schooners were armed with 2x76.2 + 2x45 + 2-6 MGs + 120 mines + sweep-nets and equipped with ramp after removing the bow compartement for landing operations. They participated in Soviet landing operations at Black Sea in 1943-1944 quite successfully because of small draft. Also used for military cargo transportation. Only two or three were sank by German bombers in 1941.

Also near 13 old steam-motor schooners (500-1500 t, were built in 1880s) were reequipped as mine-sweepers (Black Sea) - http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/minesweepers/pic/egurcha.jpg

Photo of the Soviet inshore cargo schooner of "Pioneer" type (17 copies, 1928-1935)
is from http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/minesweepers/pic/pioner.jpg.
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Post by mjbollinger » 14 Sep 2005 01:28

Hi,

I've painstakingly compiled a database on the history of every ship serving in the Soviet merchant fleet at any point between 1930 and 1950. It has taken six years. I've got over 850 ships in the database and am in the process of writing a book on the history of the Soviet merchant fleet in WWII. What would you like to know? I'm happy to help if I can with respect to a specific question.

By the way, Dzhurma did not get stuck in the Bering Strait in 1933/34. It wasn't even in Soviet hands until mid 1935. See my article in the journal Russian History from 2003, or read the chapter in my book Stalin's Slave Ships: Kolyma, the Gulag Fleet and the Role of the West.

Marty Bollinger

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Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Sep 2005 20:42

Hello, mjbollinger!
That`s great that you already collected the info about almost all Soviet merchant ships!!! I just wanted to find at least any info about Soviet civil transport ships of WWII period and as you see I could find quite many interesting info and photos for the short period of time (near one month). Of course, its incomparable with your amount of info, but anyway I made a good job and this is one of my best and favourite thread :)
During my search I found a very interesting document from Russian navy archive (on Russian) - the list of all sunken Soviet civil ships (several hundreds) during WWII with the data, type, tonnage and name of the ship, short description of the accident with the amount of lost crewmembers and captain name, and the geographical coordinate of the accident. Probably, you know this info, but anyway if you need I can send it to you.

At the moment I am, probably, don`t have any special questions as I only wanted to know only general info about Soviet ships.
Thank you very much! If you wrote me several months ago when I tried to find at least any info - you helped me a lot for sure :wink: :) :) :wink:
As for the "Dzhurma" - yes, I know the fact you posted and tried to explain them to other forum members here in my first letters.

Best regards, BIGpanzer

PS. OK, several questions from my previous posts here :) :
1. Transport ships with ice belt of "Anadyr" type - any info about "Sakhalin" and "Khabarovsk", please
2. WWII photos of dry cargo ships of "Tsurupa" type - I could find only modern photos of "Lepse"
3. WWII photos of refrigerator ships of "Kuban" type
4. Any info about the further fate of "Max Hölz", "Friedrich Engels", "Mayakovsky", "Litvinov" (large universal cargo ships of the same type)
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 18 Sep 2005 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Kharbarovsk, Sakhalin et. al.

Post by mjbollinger » 18 Sep 2005 18:21

Here's some chronological information on the ships you requested


KHABAROVSK
1931 Launched as KHABAROVSK 10.31
1932 Completed as KHABAROVSK (STF-DGK)
1935 KHABAROVSK (DGMP) 03.35
1938 Used as military transport to Lake Khazan 07.38
1949 KHABAROVSK (KChGMP) possibly earlier
196- Removed from service

SAKHALIN
1930 Completed as SAKHALIN (STF-DGK)
1932 Ran aground off Sakhalin 08.32; released after 8 days
1932 Detained by Japan for one month 08.32
1933 Serious fire onboard during Winter in Okhotsk Sea
1935 SAKHALIN (DGMP) 03.35
1941 KRASNOYARSK (TF) mobilized as transport
1947 KRASNOYARSK (DGMP)
1958 KRASNOYARSK (MRKh) used by Kamchatrybprom
1968 Excluded from register
1971 Floating storage in USSR

MAX HOELTS
1931 Completed as MAX HOELTS (STF-BGK) 09.31
1934 MAX HOELTS (BGMP) 03.15.34
1938 Detained by Spain
1939 Seized by Spain as CASTILLO MONTEALEGRE (Spain)
1939 Assigned to Trasmediterránea S.A
1943 Sunk by U.123 at 09°46N/16°50W 08.04.43

FRIEDRICH ENGELS
1930 Completed as FRIEDRICH ENGELS (STF-BGK)
1934 FRIEDRICH ENGELS (BGMP) 15.03.34
1940 FRIEDRICH ENGELS (DGMP)
1942 PQ-9 Reykjavik to Murmansk 01.02.42-10.02.42
1942 QP-8 Murmansk to Hvalfjord 01.03.42-11.03.42
1942 Sailed independently Reykjavik 12.08.42 to Arkhangel'sk
1942 QP-15 Arkhangel'sk to Loch Ewe 17.11.42-30.11.42
1945 FRIEDRICH ENGELS (USSR) removed from DGMP roster
1948 Transferred to Romania as FRIEDRICH ENGELS (Sovromtransport)
1954 FRIEDRICH ENGELS (NAVROM)
1962 MAMAIA (NAVROM)
1991 Broken up at Sulina

VLADIMIR KAYAKOVSKY
1929 Launched as BELA KUN 09.29
1931 Completed as BELA KUN (STF-BGK) 09.31
1934 BELA KUN (BGMP) 15.03.34
1937 VLADIMIR MAYAKOVSKY (ChGMP)
1940 Forced to Saigon by French 03.40; crew interned 6 months
1940 VLADIMIR MAYAKOVSKY (DGMP) operational transfer 14.04.40
1967 Removed from service

Not aware of a ship named LITVINOV in this series. Did you mean JEAN JAURES?
1930 Launched as JEAN JAURES 06.30
1931 Completed as JEAN JAURES (STF-BGK)
1934 JEAN JAURES (BGMP) 15.03.34
1937 JEAN JAURES (ChGMP)
1942 Mined off Feodosiya 16.01.42

I'll have to check for photos. By the way, the best source of information I have found on merchant shipbuilding in the USSR is this book:

Spasskogo, I.D., ed. История Отечественного Судостроения: в Пяти Томах [History of domestic shipbuilding: In Five Volumes]. St. Petersburg: Shipbuilding Press, 1996.

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 18 Sep 2005 21:33

Thanks a lot, mjbollinger, for the excellent info you provided!

1. Could you translate your abbreviations STF-DGK (shipyard...? which...?) - AFAIK should be the Baltic shipyard (in Leningrad) in the case of "Khabarovsk" and "Sakhalin" cargo-passenger ships; DGMP (?) - probably, this is Far Eastern State Steamship Company - one of the many Soviet civil steamship companies of that period; KChGMP (?) - which State Steamship Company is this (Khabarovsk?.....); TF (?) - Pacific Navy, probably; MRKh (?) - ......; BGMP (?) - Baltic State Steamship Company as me seems; ChGMP - Black Sea Steamship Company as me seems...

2. As for the participation of "Khabarovsk" as military transport during Soviet-Japanese conflict (Battle of Lake Khasan or Changkufeng Incident in July-August 1937) on Sea of Japan - do you have more detailed info about it?

3. Russian naval archives report that military transport "Khabarovsk" was sunk in summer 1945 (Pacific Ocean) - probably, there were two or several "Khabarovsk" ships (different types) during WWII. Otherwise - we have different info.....

4. As for the "Sakhalin" (the same type of cargo-passenger ship with ice belt as "Khabarovsk") - I also found the info that this ship transported political prisoners in 1932 for construction Magadan port. Two 1932 year photos of that ship are available in my post from 28 July here.
I didn`t know before that "Sakhalin" was renamed as military transport "Krasnoyarsk" in 1941. So the info that I posted in this thread about "Sakhalin", which was sunk in 1944 or 1945 during the navigation from USA to USSR is not correct. That was another "Sakhalin" - do you know something about its type and the details of its submergence?

5. Do you know some info about another ships of that type - "Khabarovsk", "Sakhalin", etc. (10 were built in 1929-1932)? I found some info (see my post from 28 July) about "Anadyr" (military transport - Pacific Navy, survived the war), "Smolensk" (mother ship for torpedo boats and submarines - Pacific Navy, survived the war) and "Stalingrad" (sunk 13.09.1942 at Greenland Sea by U-589), but nothing about "Sever", "Suchan", "Sverdlovsk", "Saratov" and "Krasnaya Gazeta".

6. "Max Hölz" large universal cargo ship - just one addition. The ship was really detained by Spain (Nationalist Forces) in 1938 during the transportation military cargos from USSR to Spain (Republican Forces). Crew was arrested, but later liberated.
Thanks for the info that I didn`t know before - that it was sunk by German U-123 as Spanish "Castillo Montealegre"

7. "Friedrich Engels" (the same type as "Max Hölz") - your info that it was completed in 1930, my - in 1931. AFAIK "Friedrich Engels" was the third ship in the series after "Max Hölz" and "Jean Jaurès". But in principle it doesn`t matter.
More interesting is that according to your data (I believe them, of course) "Friedrich Engels"
sailed independently Reykjavik 12.08.42 to Arkhangel'sk.

I have the info (from several sources) that 3 June-21 August 1942 it made alone the first navigation from USA to Soviet polar port Dikson through the Denmark Strait, meeting in fog the German heavy cruiser “Admiral Scheer” (operation "Wunderland"), which avoided the contact. So the routes were completely different, as me seems.
Also it was unsuccessfully attacked by Japanese submarines several times at Far Eastern routes later.

8. "Mayakovsky" (the same type as "Max Hölz") - your info
1940 Forced to Saigon by French 03.40; crew interned 6 months.
My info - it was captured together with several another Soviet civil cargo ships by English/French warships (as UK and France were the allies of Finland and Poland, fought with USSR) in the end of 1939 and was escorted to Saigon. In May 1940 “Mayakovsky” was released from custody, but French administration plundered all cargo (coffee and ore). Almost the same info.
Do you know smth about its use during WWII (military transport?)

9.
Not aware of a ship named LITVINOV in this series. Did you mean JEAN JAURES?

No, because those large universal cargo ships were built in 1931-1936 by North yard (Leningrad) in four series (I and II – “Max Hölz”, “Jean Jaurès”, “Friedrich Engels”, “Mayakovsky”; III and IV – “KIM”, “Komsomol”, “Litvinov”, “Cheluskinets”).
So "Litvinov" and “Jean Jaurès” were the different ships of the same type. The problem is that some ships were renamed during their exploitation, but the name "Litvinov" existed for sure, may be not at the stage of ship building, but later.

I would like to repeat my previous post about “Jean Jaurès”. During WWII “Jean Jaurès” was used as military transport ship (armed with several 45mm AA gun) on Black Sea. In January 1942 it participated in large Kerch-Feodosya landing operation (23000 soldiers, 34 tanks, 233 guns, 2 cruisers, 7 destroyers, 6 mine-sweepers, 15 anti-submarine boats, 14 transport ships, including “Jean Jaurès”). 4 January 1942 it was attacked by German bombers, damaged, but was repaired in several days. “Jean Jaurès” was blown up on magnetic mine 16 January 1942 at a range of 850 m from Feodosya port (depth 17 m), carrying 122 & 152-mm howitzers, trucks, fuel and wounded soldiers (all landing troops were already landed successfully). The crew could repair the heavy damages in 5-6 hours, but German coastal artillery began to fire on immovable ship. So the captain of “Jean Jaurès” received the order to sink the ship and prevent its capture by German and Romanian troops. Crew and wounded men were saved by Soviet motor boats and mine-sweeper, but 40 were killed during the mine explosion. Also ammunition, 40 trucks and 6 heavy cannons were sunk (some of them were raised after WWII). Also 6 another Soviet transport ships were sunk during the landing operation. Now “Jean Jaurès” is a popular object among divers from all over the world, but it is still dangerous because of ammunition on board. Its masts were removed by rescuers after WWII to free the navigating channel. Probably, “Jean Jaurès” will be raised soon to clear the area near the big port and popular resort, but it will be very hard because of its large dimensions and destroyed stern.

Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer

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Ship Info

Post by mjbollinger » 19 Sep 2005 13:21

Hi BIGPanzer,

Here is a quick reply to some of your items -- I'll get to the rest a bit later


1. You are right about my abbreviations. Here are the ones you weren't able to guess

KChGMP = Камчатка-Чукчи Государственное Морское Пароходство (Kamchatka-Chuchki State Sea Shipping Co.)
STF-DGK = Советский Торговый Флот - Дальневосточное Главная Контора (Soviet Trading Fleet - Far East Main Office)

2. I'll have to look into this. My source material is in Russian and I don't read Russian. Takes a while to translate.

3. Not aware of Kharbarovsk being sunk. Suspect this is a different ship. Do you have details? I would like to try to reconcile this.

4. Not aware of dry cargo ship SAKHALIN (or the ChGMP tanker of the same name) being sunk. (You are right about it transporting prisoners (150 to be exact) in 1932. I write about this in my book.)

5. Here is info on SEVER, SUCHAN, SVERDLOVSK, SARATOV and KRASNAYA GAZETA. It isn't much as I don't follow the ships unless they served in the merchant fleet. Many of these transitioned to the military.

SEVER
1930 Completed as SEVER (STF-SGK)
1934 SEVER (SGMP) 15.03.34
1945 SEVER (Northern Fleet) mobilized as depot ship
???? Not reported after 1945 -- I have no further details

SUCHAN
1930 Launched 05.30 as SUCHAN
1931 Completed as SUCHAN (STF-DGK) 08.31
1935 SUCHAN (DGMP) 03.35
1936 Detained by Japan for three months off Sarafutsu
1938 Lost in La Perouse Strait 05.38

SVERDLOVSK
1930 Launched 11.30 as SVERDLOVSK
1931 Completed as SVERDLOVSK (USSR)
1933 SVERDLOVSK (STF-DGK)
1935 SVERDLOVSK (DGMP) 03.35
1941 SVERDLOVSK (TF) mobilized as submarine tender
1946 SVERDLOVSK (DGMP)
1960 Deleted LRS

SARATOV
1931 Completed as SARATOV (USSR)
1933 SARATOV (TF) as submarine tender 09.33
1960 Deleted LRS

KRASNAYA GAZETA
1932 Laid down as KAZAN
1933 Launched as KRASNAYA GAZETA
1936 KRASNAYA GAZETA (USSR) commissioned as submarine tender
No further info

6. Thanks for the clarification

7. You are probably correct. I mistyped. I don't have full info on launching and completion dates for this ships. Here is what I have

MAX HOELTS: Completed 09.31
BELA KHUN: Launched 09.29, Completed 09.31
FRIEDERICK ENGELS: Launched in 1930; probably completed in 1931
JEAN JAURES: Laid down 06.30; launched in 1931

8. Your info makes sense. Thanks. The only info I have about WWII use is that it was on Lend Lease service in the Pacific.

9. My mistake. I thought you mean't another ship in the MAX HOELTS series. My info on LITVINOV is that it was never completed.

LITVINOV
1932 Launched as LITVINOV -- never entered service
1941 Sunk by artillery at Neva river 18.09.41
1946 Wreckage scrapped

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 19 Sep 2005 21:52

Hello, mjbollinger!
Thanks a lot again for the info! 8)

But small notes :wink: :
KChGMP should be translated not as
Kamchatka-Chuchki State Sea Shipping Co.
but as Kamchatka-Chukotsky State Sea Shipping Co. I`ve checked spelling. That State Sea Shipping was established after WWII.

As for "Khabarovsk" transport ship - according to the info from Russian Central Navy Archive transport ship "Khabarovsk" was lost in August 1945 at Pacific Ocean shortly after it evacuated the crew from "Transbalt" transport ship from Japanese ports to Vladivostok (Soviet ship "Transbalt" - 11439 brutto-tonnes was sunk on 13 June 1945 by two torpedoes from US submarine "Spadefish", which badly mistaked ( :( ) in determination of ship nationality, at the Sea of Japan; 5 men were lost, 94 men could reach Japanese seashore on 4 life-boats). No more info - exact data and its type. More likely, that lost "Khabarovsk" was another type of the ship we discussed about.

The ship named "Sakhalin" was lost (sunk?) for sure according to the list of Soviet civil ship losses during WWII (Russian Central Navy Archive) - but no exact info (data, its type)......

"Suchan" cargo-passenger ship was exatly sunk in La Perouse Strait in May 1938 (another source - in 1937) because of swithching off the lighthouse by Japanese. During 1930s it transported different cargos, food and also political prisoners to Magadan port.

Interesting fact about "Saratov" and "Krasnaya Gazeta" you`ve posted - as all other cargo-passengers civil ships of the same type were mobilized by navy only after WWII began (1941 or later), they were used as submarine tenders since 1933 and 1936, correspondingly! By the way Soviet Pacific Fleet (TF) got its first 8 submarines in autumn 1933.


Regards, BIGpanzer
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 20 Sep 2005 10:28, edited 1 time in total.

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More info

Post by mjbollinger » 20 Sep 2005 01:14

Thanks.

Yes, KChGMP was established in 1949.

USS Spadefish sunk TRANSBALT. In fact, half a dozen Soviet ships were sunk by U.S. submarines during the war.

I will check Berezhnoi to see if other information on Kharbarovsk is available.

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Still More Information

Post by mjbollinger » 20 Sep 2005 02:22

Hi BIGPanzer

I can confirm the information on SUCHAN. The Japanese did shut off the beacon on the Stone of Danger (which they had installed in 1913) and SUCHAN ran aground.

I have no further information on the loss of SAKHALIN or KHABAROVSK. I've checked a number of sources which confirm that KHABAROVSK and SAKHALIN (having been renamed KRASNOYARSK) were used in operations against Japan in August 1945. But none describe the ship has having been sunk. Sources I've checked include:

Strelbitskii, K.B. Август 1945: Советско-Японская Война На Море - Цена Победы [August 1945: The Soviet-Japanese War At Sea: The Price of Victory]. Lvov: The International Center of Fleet History, 1996.

Berezhnoi, Sergey S. Военные корабли и Суда Советского Морского Флота, 1928–1945 [The Warships and Auxiliary Vessels of the Soviet Navy, 1928–1945]. Moscow: Military Publishing House of the Ministries of Defense of the USSR, 1988.

Ministry of the Marine Sea Fleet. Суда Министерства Морского Флота: Погибшие в Период Великой Отечественной Войны 1941-1945 гг. [Ships of the Ministry of a Marine SeaFleet: Victims of the Great Domestic War of 1941-1945]. Soyuzmorniiproekt: St. Petersburg, 1989.

Shirokorad, A.E. Корабли и катера ВМФ СССР 1939-45 гг. [Ships and Boats of the USSR Navy, 1939 to 1945]. Minsk: Kharvest, 2002.

In particular, Strelbitskii is a very comprehensive source, and it was written relatively recently. It lists every ship, military or civilian, damaged or sunk in Pacific operations regardless of cause. There is no reference to any damage or loss involving KHARBAROVSK or KRASNOYARSK. There was a tanker named SAKHALIN (formerly with Sovtanker in the Black Sea) also operating in the area at the time, but it is also not listed as having been lost and it evidenly survived until 1973.

Have you checked the Naval Ministry archives? I'm referring to:

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Боевых Действий Тихоокеанского Флота В Воине С Японией: 9 Августа до 3 Сентября, 1945 г. [Chronicle of Operations of the Pacific Fleet in the War with Japan: 9 August to 3 September, 1945]. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1949

I don't have it in hard copy, only on CD, and I have not yet gone through this volume. If this is the source of the information, could you give me the page #s and I'll look it over?

More generally, you seem to have an interest in the military history of transport ships, which is a topic I'm interested in if only to complete the chronology of the merchant ships in my database. We should be able to help each other out here.

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 20 Sep 2005 19:04

Good day, mjbollinger!
Yes, lets help each other in finding the info :)

Today I am trying to find some info about Soviet transport ships, were torpedoed by submarines at Pacific Ocean. Yes, several were sunk by US submarines by mistake and because of bad communication between Soviet and US Naval HQ at local levels. Often US didn`t inform the Soviets about the routes of their submarines, also USSR didn`t inform the Americans about the single routes of their transport ships. The sequences were the death of Soviet sailors, losses of important cargos, including Lend-Lease, and bad relations between allied sailors. I even found a mention that several times captains of Soviet destroyers from Pacific Fleet asked their HQ to allow them to sank at least one US submarine also "as a mistake" after such accidents with transport ships................The most part of the accidents happened at night, when the identification of the ships was not so easy.

So:
"Angarstroy" (4761 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 01.05.1942 by unknown submarine during the way from San Francisco (USA) to Vladivostok (USSR) after its capture for 9 days by Japanese patrol boats, East-Chinese Sea. The ship was sunk in 15 minutes after explosion. The ship transported sugar and had 46 crewmembers and 14 passengers on board. All men on two life-boats were saved by Japanese transport ship the same day, in two months returned back to USSR.

"Kola" (2654 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 16.02.1943 by US submarine "Sawfish" during the way from Vladivostok (USSR) to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky (USSR), Pacific Ocean, Tsushima strait. Crew - 49 sailors, 10 soldiers and 16 passengers with children. Two torpedoes exploded the left side of the ship, which could radioed "SOS" and sunk in 2-3 minutes. 44 men were killed, the rest 31 on two life-boats and several float-boats tried to reach the seashore. In 15 days only 4 survived, who were saved by Japanese patrol boat. After two weeks in Japanese prison they were returned back to USSR.

"Ilmen" (2369 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 17.02.1943 at 07.45 am by US submarine "Sawfish" also ( :x ), during the way from Vladivostok (USSR) to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky (USSR), 240 miles from Japan. The ship transported coal. Two torpedoes from three exploded the left side of the ship, which sunk in 2 minutes. 7 men were killed, another 35 sailors on two life-boats were saved by Soviet ship "Kashirstroy" at the same day.

"Byelorussia" (2920 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 03.03.1944 by Japanese submarine during the way from USA to Vladivostok (USSR) with Lend-Lease cargos, near Kuril Islands. Ship sunk in 4 minutes, 15 sailors were killed and lost. Another 28 men with captain on one life-boat among the ice sea tried to reach the seashore. In 20 days(!) 26 were died because of shortage of food and illness, only two greasers survived and were captured by Japanese coastal defence units. Those two Soviet sailors were heavily beaten and tortured at Japanese prison, but in three months were given back to Soviets.

"Pavlin Vinogradov" (2864 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 22.04.1944 at 5.00 pm by unknown submarine during the way from Vancouver (Canada) to Vladivostok (USSR), North Pacific, near Alaska. "Pavlin Vinogradov" transported the tanks with acetone. The ship exploded and fired immediately, sunk in 1 minute after explosive. 13 sailors with captain were killed, the rest could lower only one life-boat and small float-boat. Almost all of 29 survivors were heavily wounded and burnt, didn`t have enough food and warm clothes as the ship sunk very quickly. The life-boat and float-boat tried to reach the American seashore (Aleutian Islands) and in 6 days another Soviet ship "Ola" found and saved 9 men, other 20 were died. "Ola" transported them immediately to USA hospitals in Akutan and Dutch Harbor. Later the ship "Sakhalin" (see the name 8) ) transported them back to USSR (01.06.1944)

"Ob" (2198 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 06.07.1944 at 00.10 am by unknown submarine during the way from Vladivostok (USSR) to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky (USSR), Sea of Okhotsk. The ship transported coal. One torpedo exploded the right side of the ship, which sunk in 1-2 minutes. 14 sailors with captain were killed, the rest reached the Soviet Kamchatka seashore on the life-boat next day.

"Transbalt" (11439 brutto-tonns) was torpedoed 13.06.1945 at 03.36 am by US submarine "Spadefish" during the way from Seattle (USA) to Vladivostok (USSR), Sea of Japan. "Transbalt" transported 9800 t of Lend-Lease cargos. Two torpedos heavily damaged the stern of the ship, it was broken in two parts and sunk in 8-10 minutes after explosives. 5 sailors were killed, another 94 could reach the Japanese ports on 4 life-boats in 17 days(!) only.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 20 Sep 2005 19:20

The list of all medium/large tonnage Soviet civil ships (on Russian as this is a copy document, I have no time to type this :) ), lost during WWII (including captured by Germans and other axis at the Soviet and foreign ports after the beginning of WWII and sunk during the Spanish civil war) - sources: Russian Central State Archive of National Economy and Russian Central Archive of the Ministry of Sea Fleet:

Sunk "Sakhalin" and "Khabarovsk" (I found them in this list, see bold below) could be the ships of another type we discussed about (just having similar names) and served not at Pacific Ocean, but also somewhere - I couldn`t find additional info.

Аарне
Абхазия
Аджарец
Аджария
Адмирал Хиппер
Адмирал Шеер
Азов
Академик Шокальский
Аксель Карл (ВТ-538)
Алев (ВТ-511)
Александр Сибиряков
Александр Ульянов
Алтай (ВТ-536)
Альф
Амата
Америка
Америкен Стар
Анапа
Ангарстрой
Андрей Жданов
Андрейс Калниньш
Апшерон
Антон Чехов
Аргунь
Ария
Армения
Арно
Артиллерист
Архангельск
Астра (ВТ-516)
Атис Кронвалдс (ВТ-563)
Аусеклис
Аусма
Аусма (рижская)
Ашхабад
Аэгна
Бакинец
Балхаш (ВТ-501)
Банга
Барта (ВТ-506)
Бартава (ВТ-572)
Батайск
Бдительный
Белоруссия
Белосток
Бердянск
Березань
Благоев
Блэкли
БО-220
БО-228
БТЩ-205
БТЩ-211
БТЩ-215
БТЩ-217
Большевик
Брянск
Вайндло (ВТ тыла КБФ)
Вайян Кутюрье
Валериан Куйбышев
Валдона
Варлаам Аванесов
Василий Чапаев
Вахур (ВТ-510) Весикко
Ветехинен
Велта
Вента
Виениба
Виире
Вилсанди
Вирониа
Вишера
Водник
Войков (ЧГМП)
Войков (АГМП)
Волго-Дон
Волголес
Володарский
Волочаевка
Ворошилов
Вормси
Восток
Вохи (ВТ-566)
Вторая пятилетка (ВТ-54)
Выборг
Гайсма
Гамма
Гауя
Георгий Димитров
Георгий Седов
Горняк (АГМП)
Грозный
Грузия
Грузчик
Гун
Гундега
Густав
Дарвин
Двинолес
Декабрист
Делегат (Т-507, ТЩ ЧФ)
Дельфиниум
Десна
Джапаридзе
Диксон
Днестр
Доле
Донбасс
Дунайская-2
Ева
Ейск
Жан Жорес
Z-24
Z-25
Z-27
Знамя социализма
Зырянин
I-162
Иван Папанин (ВТ-505)
Иде Фиорд
Ижора
Илга
Ильич
Ильмень
Иманта (ВТ-556)
Ингул
Иосиф Сталин (ВТ-521)
Ирене
Каганович
Кадри
Казак Поярков
Казахстан
Кайо Мару
Кайя
Калевипоег
Калинин
Калпакс (ВТ-524)
Каменец-Подольск
Канариас
Кангарс
Кандава
Карин
Каупо
Каширстрой
Киев
КЛ-4
Клинтс
Ковда
Койдула
Кокинаки
Кола (ДГМП)
Кола (ЧГМП)
Колхозник (ДГМП)
Колхозник (КГМП)
Комилес
Коминтерн
Коммунар
Коммунист
КОМСОМОЛ
Комсомолец
Кондоре
Консул П. Даннеберг
Космос (ВТ-578)
Красногвардеец
Красный моряк
Красный партизан
Красный флот
Крестьянин
Кретинга (ВТ-554)
Кречет
Кривс
Кримулда
Кришьянис Вальдемарс
Кубань
Кузнец Лесов
Куйбышев (КГМП)
Куйбышев (МГМП)
Куйвасту (ВТ-595)
Кулдига
Кулибеков
Ладога
Лачплесис
Ледокол № 4
Ледокол № 5
Ледокол № 7
Леени (ВТ-503)
Лейк Люцерне (ВТ-581)
Ленин (ЧГМП)
Ленин (СГМП)
Ленинград
Лииза
Литвинов
Лихтер № 3032
Лихтер Ш-500
Лозовский
Лоотс (Т-1)
Луга (ВТ-518)
Луначарский (ВТ-513)
М-14
М-97
Магнитогорск
Маныч
Май
Майкоп
Максим Горький
Мариа (ВТ-544)
Мариамполь
Марина Раскова
Мариуполь
Марта
Мгла
Мееро (ВТ-542)
Мерикару
Метеор
Микоян
Мирилинд
Михаил Громов
Миус
МО-251
Молдавия
Молот
Молс
Мста
Муравьев
Муссон
Найссаа (ВТ-584)
Незаможник
Нептун
Нептунас
Николай Островский
Новороссийск
Ногин
Норд (бук. п/х)
Норд (ГИСУ)
Носак
Обь
Огре
Октябрь
Ола
Онега
Орел
Орленок
Осетин
П-4
Партизан Железняк
Павлин Виноградов
Пеару
Пеет
Пенай
Перванш
Перекоп
Перкунас
Пестель
Петр Великий .
Плавучий док (2 тыс. т)
Плавучий док (4 тыс. т)
Плеханов
Поларис (ВТ-528)
Полина Осипенко
Полярник
Поморье
Потемкин
Пролетарий (МГМП)
Пролетарий (ЧГМП)
Псков (ЧГМП)
Псков (ДГМП)
Пугачев
Работник (Т-504)
Расма
Рауна
Революция
Рекорд
Рига
Рица
Родина
Рот-Фронт
Рудольф
Рухно (ВТ-587)
S-26
S-28
S-59 S-60 S-102
Садко
Сакко и Ванцетти
С. А. Леваневский
Сальми
Сант-Эльстан
Сатурн
Сахалин - SAKHALIN
Сванетия
Свирьстрой
Севастополь
Северолес-18
Сергей Лазо
Сергей Киров
СЗ-14
Сибирь (ВТ-514)
Сигнал
Сигрид
Сигулда (ВТ-519)
Силач
Симеиз
Симферополь
СКА-033
СКА-046
СКА-095
Скауте
СКР-75
Скрунда (ВТ-529)
Смелый
Снег
Советская Бессарабия
Советский Крым
Соломбала
Софиш
Спартаковец
Спейдфиш
Спидола
Спорте
Сталинград
Стенсо (ВТ-541)
Степан Макаров
Субботник
Сухона
Сюёксю
Т-114
Т- 116
Т-118
Тайфун
Таллин
Талыча
Танаис
Танкист
Тасуя
Таутмила
Ташкент
Тбилиси (ДГМП)
Тбилиси (КГМП)
Тбилиси (СГМП)
Терек
Тимирязев
Тирпиц
Титан
ТКА-27
Тобол (ВТ-512)
Товарищ
Тоомас
Тормилинд
Трансбалт
Тритон
Трувор
Туапсе
Тунец
Туркменистан
Турксиб
Тутти
ТЩ-31
ТЩ-36
ТЩ-60
ТЩ-63
Тымлат
Тыну (ВТ-531)
У-20
У-23
У-24
У-129
У-132
У-209
У-255
У-302
У-354
У-365
У-402
У-435
У-481
У-589
У-592
У-601
У-625
У-636
У-652
У-703
У-956
У-957
У-960
У-995
У-997
У-1163
Ударник
Узбекистан
Узбекистан (груз.)
Украина
Ураллес
Урицкий
Уссури
Утена
Уфа
Фабрициус
Фанагория
Феодосия
Фридрих Ин
Хабаровск - KHABAROVSK
Хасан
Харьков
Хельге (ВТ-592)
Херсон
Хииула
Хильде
Хильдур
Хоупринс
Циолковский
Чапаев
Чатырдаг
Червона Украина
Червоный казак
Черноморец
Чичерин
Ш-500
Шаланда № 19
Шаланда № 21
Шаланда № 318
Шауляй
Шаумян
Шахтер
Шквал
Штурман
Щ-311
Щорс
Эвалъд
Эверига
Эверита (ВТ-545)
Эвероника
Эвероланда (ВТ-552)
Эвертонс
Эвита
Эгон
Эйно (К-40)
Элла
Эльборус
Эльтон
Эмба
Эргонаутис (ВТ-537)
Эстония
Ээстиранд (ВТ-532)
Юлиа
Ялта
Ян Томп
Ярвамаа (ВТ-547)

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Soviet Ships Sunk By U.S. Submarines

Post by mjbollinger » 20 Sep 2005 21:45

Hi,

I think you should add the hydrographic ship CHUCHKA to the list of ships sunk by U.S. submarines, probably by S-34. And ODESSA was probably torpedoed by a U.S. submarine (S-44) though not sunk. These incidents do not appear in U.S. records. In Soviet records ODESSA is listed as having been torpedoed by an unknown submarine. Soviet records indicate that CHUCHKA simply went missing. I have reached this conclusion based on trip reports for the U.S. submarines and the convergence of submarine and target given course and speed information. I am very confident about CHUCHKA but somewhat less certain about ODESSA.

Yes, I think the SAKHALIN and KHABAROVSK mentioned in the archives must be different ships than the ones we have been discussing.

Marty

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