Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

[mjbollinger]

BP,

I think that was on 17.08.41

Chronology
1896 Launched as CHATYR DAG 18.03.96
1896 Completed as CHATYR DAG (ROPiT) 05.96
1914 Damaged at Novorossiysk 29.10 by gunfire from Turkish cruisers
1916 CHATYR DAG (Russian Navy) transport for Danube flotilla 23.05.16
1918 Under control of German and/or White forces
1920 Seized at Odessa 07.02.20 by Red Forces
1922 CHATYR DAG (GChAP) 01.09.22
1924 CHATYR DAG (STF-ChAGK) 01.10.24
1926 CHATYR DAG (STF-ChGK)
1934 CHATYR DAG (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1941 CHATYR DAG (ChABU) 01.07.41
1941 Assisted in recovery of Kuban after bomb damage 17.08.41
1942 Sunk by German aircraft at Feodosia 09.01.42
1954 Refloated and broken up 17.02.54

[kgvm]

While you are mentioning "Kuban":
According to Chronik des Seekrieges 1939 - 1945: Vom 3.-5.1.1942 geleiten die Zerstörer Boiki und Soobrazitelny die Transporter Kuban und Krasnogvardeets zum Bosporus. (Translation: the destroyers B. and S. are giving protection to transports Kuban and Krasnorvardeets going to the Bosporus)
But:
1. "Krasnogvarddeets" was already lost by bombs at Feodosia 31.12.41
2. "Kuban" was lost in the Black Sea later in the year (02.07.42 at Novorossisk)
3. Sovets had just landed at Kertch and Feodosia, I cannot believe there was such a surplus of transports they could spare valuable ships (Sevastopol needed supplies, too!)
Do you have any informations, whether the information of the Chronik is at least partly correct?
Regards
Klaus Günther

[BIGpanzer]

Thanks, Marti, for the info!
As for damages of "Chatyr-Dag" in Novorossisk during WWI, that happened not 29.10.1914 but 16.10.1914 [it depends on calendar - Julian calendar was replaced on Gregorian calendar in Russia in 1917]. There is an excellent detailed article [on Russian] "Bombardment of Novorossisk from German-Turkish cruisers in 1914" - http://www.mil.ru/viz-1-06-40-43.pdf
From the article: "16.10.1914 [after 10:50] - managers of steamship companies ordered their captains in Novorossisk port to go to the open sea, but there was no time already, bombardment started....Captain of steamer "Chatyr-Dag" I. Tarlanov decided to open flood valves to flood machine and boiler compartments, and to prevent the capture of steamer with 800 tons of cargos [flour in holds, barrels with oil and goudron on the deck] by enemy...That decision saved the ship as waterlogged steamer was hard to sink during bombardment - all holes from the shells were above water line. Ufter unloading and dewatering the steamer could left the port soon".

Regards, BP

[BIGpanzer]

kgvm wrote:

While you are mentioning "Kuban":
According to Chronik des Seekrieges 1939 - 1945: Vom 3.-5.1.1942 geleiten die Zerstörer Boiki und Soobrazitelny die Transporter Kuban und Krasnogvardeets zum Bosporus. (Translation: the destroyers B. and S. are giving protection to transports Kuban and Krasnorvardeets going to the Bosporus)
But:
1. "Krasnogvarddeets" was already lost by bombs at Feodosia 31.12.41
2. "Kuban" was lost in the Black Sea later in the year (02.07.42 at Novorossisk)
3. Sovets had just landed at Kertch and Feodosia, I cannot believe there was such a surplus of transports they could spare valuable ships (Sevastopol needed supplies, too!)
Do you have any informations, whether the information of the Chronik is at least partly correct?

I know this German source you've mentioned already, sometimes it contains strange info I need to say.
Yes, transport "Krasnogvardeets" [2719 brt, built in 1905 by Flensburger] was sunk by two high-explosive bombs in Feodosia port 31.12.1941 [already after unloading the landing troops from 44th army], all crewmembers survived; the ship was raised 15.03.1945.
Reefer diesel ship "Kuban" [3113 brt, built in 1932 by Admiralty shipyard in Leningrad] was sunk by several air bombs during massed German air strike [77 aircraft dropped 170 bombs] against Novorossisk port 02.07.1942 [and it should be noted that "Kuban" stayed in Novorossisk since 02.1942 when that reefer exploded on mine during run Novorossisk-Kerch, was towed to Novorossisk and repaired there]; "Kuban" was raised in 1944.
Also the idea to send transports to Bosporus [quite close to German-Italian naval bases in Aegean Sea] is quite strange for me [for what purpose? - if only to relocate them to the north/far-east theatres of operation via Suez & Panama channels, but those transports were not ice-breakers or tankers needed there], usual cargo ships were very necessary for transport duties on the Black Sea that time indeed. Transport ships performed runs to besieged Sevastopol till June 1942 until it became impossible.
The only correct info is the following - destroyers "Bojky" and "Soobrazitelny" [together with other warships] participated in guard of transport ships during Kerch-Feodosiya landing operation, started 25.12.1941. And "Krasnogvardeets" and "Kuban" participated in that operation indeed, they transported soldiers, ammunition, tanks and guns [~20 merchant ships of Black Sea participated in operation and transported ~23.000 soldiers of 44th army to Feodosiya during 28-31.12.1941; "Kuban" performed 4 runs from Novorossisk to Feodosiya that time and her captain G. Vislobokov was killed during the first run by shell fragment]. Destroyer "Soobrazitelny" went to Novorossisk after landing operation 05.01.1942. So exchange Bosporus on Feodosiya and 3.-5.1.1942 on the end of December, 1941 and you'll get the quite correct sentence, Klaus !

Regards, BP

[kgvm]

Thanks, BP, that was what I thought, too.
With regard to the otherwhere needed icebreaker, yes, I know of the transfer of "Mikojan" and the tankers "Varlaam Avanesov", "Sakhalin" and "Tuapse" iat the end of November 1941. I can imagine the tankers being really surplus in the Black Sea - too big for transport duty to Sevastopol or for smaller harbours and much more needed for the Murmansk run or the Pacific Ocean.
Regards
Klaus Günther

[BIGpanzer]

kgvm wrote:
http://riversea.tugtalk.co.uk/memories/cards.htm (pictures changing about every 6 weeks, at the moment there are pictures of NEVASTROI 1918, POLINA OSIPENKO 1920, CHELYUSKIN 1933, SPARTAK 1909, SELENGA 1919 and SURA 1923. Even if some of these are identical to the pictures at Fesco, they are shown in higher resolution

As for "Polina Osipenko" - that was cargo steamer [3475 brt] built in 1920 by Hanlon in Oakland ["Tanana", renamed as "Polina Osipenko" in 1942 after lend-lease delivery, served in DGMP in 1942-1965]
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... 579_1.html [photo from Fesco]

I am very interested in photo(s) of another "Polina Osipenko" [diesel ship] - that was ore carrier [3925 brt, 111.1 m length], which was built in 1939 by Nikolaev shipyard named for 61 communards. Her sistership "Anatolij Serov" was finished in 1939 also. As you, probably, know, those two ore carriers for route Kamysh-Burun/Poti - Mariupol [to provide large iron-and-steel works "Azovstal" by coal and ore] were converted from the hulls of two large timber ships of "Volgoles"-type [the series of those ships was built by Admiralty shipyard and North shipyard in 1930-1935]. The photos of large timber ships of "Volgoles"-type are known [including the photo of famous "Stary bolshevik"], but those two ore carriers were rebuilt quite significantly - 10 hold hatches were made instead of initial 4, cargo derricks/wrenches of timber ships were replaced on cargo cranes to allow fast unloading of ore in port; the draft was decreased to allow navigation in Azov Sea [so cargo capacity was decreased also - from 5500 tons to 4800 tons]. So it will be interesting to see the photos of those Soviet-built ore carriers.

We've discussed those ore carriers somewhere above - I just would like to remind that "Anatolij Serov" was used as transport for military cargos transportation and evacuation of equipment and civilians from Black Sea ports since June 1941, the ship participated in Odessa and Sevastopol defence, also in Kerch-Feodosya landing operation [during 15 months the ship transported 7700 t of ammunition, 650 tanks and cars, 7500 civilians and 11000 wounded soldiers, "Anatoly Serov" was attacked 95 times by German torpedo-bombers and its crew shot down/damaged 3 bombers by AA fire]. 04.01.1941 the ship was damaged by close air bomb explosion in Feodosia port, in May 1942 the ship was heavily damaged by direct bomb hits at Sevastopol, but the crew could repair the ship [4 underwater holes in the 2nd hold] and reached Novorossisk port, where it was damaged again by additional bomb hit. The heavily damaged ship could make a run to Batumi, where it was completely repaired during 7 months. In 1943-1944 "Anatolij Serov" performed runs from Batumi to Trebizond [Turkey] on Black Sea [which was quite dangerous as German representatives in Turkey informed their navy about all runs of Soviet diesel ship]. 5 men from the crew were killed and 15 were wounded during the war. After WWII the ship performed runs to Bulgaria, Romania, Mediterranean; 08.04.1949 "Anatolij Serov" was exploded on old WWII mine near Sevastopol and sank because of large hole and stormy weather.

"Polina Osipenko" was attacked by German aviation near Ochakov [Dnepr firth, 46.36N, 31.40E] during run to Nikolaev with cargos and passengers [>1000 men] on the deck 13.08.1941. Two air bombs hit the diesel ship, fire began. Captain A. Orlov could run the ship aground where it sank; fishing vessels rescued crewmembers and passengers [9 men were lost]. The ship was raised in 1968 and scrapped.

Regards, BP

[mjbollinger]

BP / Klaus,

You are correct. I've looked throught the Chronologies quite carefully and found numerous cases where the information conflicts with more reliable sources.

I am not aware of any dry cargo ships that went through the Bosporus during the war. As indicated by Klaus, only tankers made this very hazardous journey, although one of the four mentioned (VAIYAN KUTYURE) did not complete the journey.

TUAPSE
1941 Departed Batumi on voyage to Black Sea 25.11.41
1941 Entered Bosphorus Strait 28.11.41
1942 Arrived Aegean Sea 01.22.42
1942 Torpedoed by U.129 in Yucatan Strait 22°13'N 86°06'W on 04.07.42

VARLAAM AVANESOV
1941 Departed Batumi on voyage to Black Sea 25.11.41
1941 Entered Bosphorus Strait 28.11.411941
1941 Torpedoed by U.652 in Aegean Sea 39°27'N 26°05'E on 19.12.41

SAKHALIN
1941 Departed Batumi on voyage to Black Sea 25.11.41
1941 Entered Bosphorus Strait 28.11.41
1942 Arrived Beirut 01.22.42; transitioned to Far East

VAIYAN KUTYURE (which did not complete the trip)
1941 Ordered to transition Black Sea to Northern theater 10.41
1941 Began voyage from Black Sea to Bosphorus Strait 12.41
1942 Ordered to return to Black Sea 16.02.42


MB

[BIGpanzer]

Hi, Marty!
Yes, we've already discussed shortly those hazardous runs of Soviet merchant ships from Black Sea through Bosporus to Mediterranean Sea in the end of 1941.

Tankers "Tuapse" [6320 brt, built in 1931 by Swan Hunter WR], "Varlaam Avanesov" [6557 brt, built in 1932 by Gotaverken] and "Sakhalin" [7596 brt, built in 1936 by Nikolaev shipyard named for Andre Marti, medium universal tanker of "Moskva"-type] started the run from Black Sea to Pacific Ocean 25.11.1941.
"Tuapse" could successfully get through Suez Canal to Indian Ocean, rounded Africa, crossed Atlantic Ocean and reached Central America. In Yucatan Channel near Cuba the tanker was torpedoed by U-129 04.07.1942 and sank, 10 men were lost.
"Varlaam Avanesov" could reach Dardanelles and was torpedoed by U-652 in Aegean Sea [off cape Babakale, Is. Tenedes] 19.12.1941, 1 man was lost and other crewmembers reached Turkish shore on life-boat [23.12.1941 sailors arrived to Istanbul, and later - to USSR].
"Sakhalin" successfully reached Far-East and served in DGMP in 1942-1946; performed runs to USA till the end of the war.

"Vayan Kutyur'e" [7596 brt, large versatile tanker of "Emba"-type, was built in 1932 by Nikolaev shipyard named for Andre Marti] served in DGMP after the war [in 1959-1975]. During WWII - participated in transport runs to Black Sea ports under strong air attacks. The ship was torpedoed by U-20 16.01.1944 off Poti (cape Anakria) during the run Batumi-Tuapse with petrol and black oil on board [sank, 3 men were lost], the tanker was raised 06.10.1945, repaired in 1954.

The most famous run from Black Sea to Pacific was performed by Soviet-built arctic large ice-breaker "A. Mikoyan" ["I. Stalin"-type, 11000 tons] with 140 crewmembers on board [the ship started run together with 3 tankers mentioned above]. Ice-breaker was reequipped at first into auxiliary cruiser after beginning of the war during its completion (by Nikolaev shipyard named for Andre Marti, launched in 1938): armament - 5x130mm + 4x76.2mm + 6x45mm + 4x7.62mm MGs. It supported by artillery fire the Soviet infantry during the defense of Odessa in 1941 and destroyed two German coastal batteries; it participated also in defense of Sevastopol (1941). "A. Mikoyan" made very dangerous navigation (25.11.1941 – 09.08.1942) from Black Sea through Mediterranean Sea, Red Sea, Atlantic Ocean, and Pacific Ocean to Far-Eastern Chukotka (25000 miles, 9 months), where it started to guide ships and convoys as powerful ice-breaker. “A. Mikoyan” had no armament during that navigation, according to the treaty with neutral Turkey, which didn’t allow passing armed ships through Bosporus [so all armament was removed in Poti during 5 days before run]. "A. Mikoyan" made the first stop in Istanbul, next stop should be on Cyprus [British naval base Famagusta]. Unarmed icebreaker was attacked by three Italian motor torpedo boats in Aegean Sea near Dardanelles, but could avoid all torpedoes by manoeuvring. Light Italian guns and MGs of motor torpedo boats couldn’t damage the strong hull of powerful arctic ice-breaker, but next day “A. Mikoyan” was attacked by two Italian flying boats, again avoiding torpedoes and any heavy damages. Nevertheless, it lost burnt motor life-boat and had near 150 small holes in the superstructures and smoke funnels, so it went for the short repair to the British naval base at Cyprus [where tankers "Sakhalin" and "Tuapse" arrived also]. Then it continued the navigation….Since September 1942 – the armed ice-breaker at North Sea Route, was armed with 4x76.2mm + 10x20mm + 4x12.7mm MGs + 4x7.62mm MGs. It guided transports and military ships to Arkhangelsk. In December 1942 the ship was heavily damaged by German mine, but could reach the port. USSR didn't have such large docks at the own northern ports, so damaged "A. Mikoyan" made the arctic north navigation to Seattle for repair, guiding in parallel the convoy! Later it continued to serve as arctic steam ice-breaker, scrapped only in 1966 in Vladivostok.
http://files.balancer.ru/cache/forums/a ... edokol.jpg

Regards, BP

PS. Marty, do you have photo(s) of Soviet-built ore carriers "Polina Osipenko" and "Anatolij Serov"?

[mjbollinger]

BP,

I will look in my files. to be honest, I would be surprised if I have photos of these ships. Give me a day or two.

MB

[BIGpanzer]

Thanks, Marty!

It is quite strange that the photos of large timber ships of "Volgoles"-type [especially, of famous "Stary bolshevik"] are known but the photos of two ore carrires reequipped from that type are.....unknown for us at least. "Anatolij Serov" was also famous during WWII because the cargo ship participated in the defense of Odessa, Sevastopol and Kerch-Feodosiya landing operation; transported many thousands tons of military cargos and evacuated thousands of men; withstood 95 air attacks; was heavily damaged but repaired. I found the mention that "Anatolij Serov" was awarded with Honorary pennant of People's Commissariat of Navy together with another 3 merchant ships of Black Sea. That diesel ship was mentioned in memoires, there are at least two books about "Anatolij Serov". But...there is no photo of that ship.

Regards, BP

[mjbollinger]

Hello BP,

I checked. No luck. I don't have photos of either ships in my collection. I'm not terribly surprised. They were in operation only for a short while (both completed in 1939, one sunk in 1941 the other in 1949). This was a time when the Soviets were either in conflict or were determined to hide the state of their post-war merchant fleet from the West. There are relatively few photos of ships taken during this period, compared to the 1930s.

MB

[BIGpanzer]

Hello, Marty!
Thank you for your efforts!

Marty wrote:
This was a time when the Soviets were either in conflict or were determined to hide the state of their post-war merchant fleet from the West. There are relatively few photos of ships taken during this period, compared to the 1930s.

Sure, the building and service of modern cargo and passenger ships of own construction was considered in 1930s as great steps in industrialization and international relations of USSR, so relatively many photos of the ships were made. There was no need and possibility to make many photos of merchant ships/military transports during the terrible war as well as right after it when there are only around a dozen of Soviet large merchant ships in good condition on Baltic Sea and Black Sea.

Unexpectedly I am very lucky - here is the photo of ore carrier "P. Osipenko", the photo was made in 1941! Note the main visible difference from large timber ships of "Volgoles"-type: cargo derricks/wrenches of timber ships were replaced on cargo cranes [for each of 10 hold hatches] to allow fast unloading of ore in port.
As for ore carrier "A. Serov" - I found a mention that there is the article by A.N. Timofeev "Diesel ship "Anatolij Serov" during the years of Great Patriotic war", published in journal "Sudostroenie"/"Shipbuilding" No.2, 2005. Probably, there are some photos there.

Regards, BP

The photo of ore carrier "Polina Osipenko" is from http://files.balancer.ru

[kgvm]

BP,
regarding "Chatyr-Dag" I would prefer to use the Gregorian date 29.10.14, which was used by the German enemy, too, and which is in general use today. You know, the famous October-revolution was in reality a November-Revolution

Regards
Klaus Günther

[mjbollinger]

BP,

Well done! This is a fascinating photograph. Thanks.

MB

[BIGpanzer]

kgvm wrote:
Regarding "Chatyr-Dag" I would prefer to use the Gregorian date 29.10.14, which was used by the German enemy, too, and which is in general use today. You know, the famous October-revolution was in reality a November-Revolution

Agree. Also all Russians like to celebrate New Years Day two times [both dates - 01.01. and 13.01.] even now! But I needed to mention this small problem in dates before 1917 anyway. AFAIK Russian sources usually use such terms as date according to Old Style [Julian Calendar] and date according to New Style [Gregorian Calendar] if the described events happened in 1900s-1910s. Almost all data given for XIX c. events and earlier are Julian dates in reality.
The most correct method in our case with "Chatyr-Dag" will be the following - 16(29).10.1914

Regards, BP