Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 27 Sep 2005 19:18

Hello, Marty!

Lets make the questions clear, if possible!

1. As for "Maxim Gorkii" ship, sunk during WWII.
mjbollinger wrote:Must be a different MAXIM GORKII that was sunk in WWII -- a warship. Only two merchant ships by that name was the timber ship and a small tanker operating in the Far East.


There was only one Soviet warship under this name - cruiser "Maxim Gorkii" (I have the full list of Soviet warships of WWII). "Maxim Gorkii" (Baltic Fleet) was heavily damaged by mine explosion on 23.06.1941 (Gulf of Finland, lost the nose part), but it was completely repeared. Scrapped in 1958. So this was not a WARSHIP!
As for the transport ship under the same name - I`ve posted here some days ago a full list (this is really a FULL list, according to the data from several Russian archives :wink: . I checked many ships which sunk in 1941-1945 and their names are in the list) of the Soviet civil ships (medium and large tonnage only!), sunk during WWII. And such name is in that list - so such ship really sunk. Lets think which ship it could be - I don`t know.

2. As for the amount and names of the large timber ships of "Volgoles" type. Well, your sources are, probably, right. But I can suppose that many Russian sources I saw give the names of 17 ships of that type because they mistake the same names of the ships of the same series. So they count the 3 names of one ship as 3 different ships, for example. Probably, this mistake appeared in one source and then transferred into another sources. But may be the info about 17 ships of that type is also right, nobody knows. The 100% right source will be the shipyard production list of that period, for example.
The following sources give the names of 17 ships, I`ve posted above:

1. Polyakov G.G. "V surovom Barencevom" ("The dangerous Barents Sea") - Murmansk, 1978 (on Russian)
2. "Severnye konvoi" ("North convoys"), Arkhangelsk, 1991 (on Russian with several English texts)
3. "Kriegstagebuch der Seekriegsleitung", 1939-1945. Herford. 1988 - 1994. Mention the 17 ships of that type without their names, except "Stary bolshevik".
4. Suprun M.N. "Lend-Lease and severnye konvoi" ("Lend-Lease and north convoys 1941-1945", Moscow, 1997.
5. Meister J. "Der Seekrieg in den osteuropaischen Gewaassern", 1939-1945. Munchen, 1958. Also just mention that USSR used 16 ships of the same type as "Stary bolshevik".
6. "Poteri boevyh korablej i sudov Voenno-Morskogo flota, transportnyh, rybolovnyh i drugih sudov SSSR v vojne 1941-1945" ("The losses of warships, transport, fishing and other vessels of USSR during WWII"), Moscow, 1959. Interesting book, but obsolete, with several important gaps because of political reasons (year 1959!) - nevertheless, the authors could not take into account some of the Soviet losses, but what they counted - should be the truth. The name "Maxim Gorkii" (small transport ship it is written!) - mentioned.
7. Russian technical and naval journals - "Tekhnika-molodezhi" (1976), "Morskoj sbornik" (1976, 1991).

See the link about the ships of that type from Russian "Tekhnika-molodezhi" journal (I found it in Internet) - also note the names (15 without two, reequipped for ore transportation), by the way. The drawing and specifications are of "Stary bolshevik".
http://www.techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/s06.jpg (you need to click one time more on the name of the file when blue screen appeared)

mjbollinger
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Location: Great Falls, VA

Updated Info

Post by mjbollinger » 28 Sep 2005 02:04

Hi BIGPanzer,

1. I know of two merchant ships over 900 tons named MAXIM GORKII operating during WWII.


Maxim Gorkii (Максим Горький)
WWII Registration: UPCS
Builder: State Shipyard ""Andre Marti"" #194 (New Admiralty Yard)
Location: Leningrad
Delivered in 1933 / 3974 GRT
Type: (D) Volgoles

1931 Laid down as EXPORTLES 19.11.31
1932 Launched as EXPORTLES 02.10.32
1933 Completed as EXPORTLES (STF-BGK)
1934 MAXIM GORKII (BGMP) 15.03.34
1940 MAXIM GORKII (DGMP) operational transfer 14.04.40
1943 Converted to carry locomotives
1965 MAXIM GORKII (DMP)
1971 Removed from DMP roster
1972 Broken up in Hong Kong by Fuji Marden & co.


Maxim Gorkii (Максим Горький)
WWII Registration: UOJS
Builder: Mitsubishi Zosen Kaisha
Location: Yokahama
Delivered in 1937 / 1850 GRT
Type: Tanker

1937 Launched as Tanker #4 (Krabomorzverotrest)
1937 Completed as MAXIM GORKII (Krabomorzverotrest) 06.07.37
1939 Collided with NENETS 23.09.39
1941 In repair in Vladivostok for most of 1941
1942 Damaged by ice in Okhotsk Sea; returned to Vladivostok 18.01.42

I know of no other large civil ships by that name. However, there is a lot of confusion about the series of tankers built by Mitsubishi and exactly which tankers took which names.

2. I don't have a way or confirm or not confirm the archives. I do know that there is a lot of confusion about the ships of that era. It would not surprise me if the archives had mistakes. Here are my sources (in Russian) so far that I have used to prepare my database. In general, they all have mistakes and it is only through triangulation that I've developed a perspective on the individual ships.

General Histories of Soviet Merchant Shipping

Guzhenko, T.B. Морской Транспорт СССР: К 60-Летию Отрасли [Sea Transport of the USSR: To the 60th Anniversary of the Branch]. Moscow: Transport, 1984.

Mikhailov, J.A., Kolodkin, A.L., Kontalev, V.A. (Eds). Под Флагом России: История Зарождения И Развития Морского Торгового Флота [Under the Flag of Russia: History of Origin and Development of the Sea Merchant Marine Fleet.] Moscow: Consent, 1995.

Sovfrakht, Совфрахт 70 ЛЕТ Исторические Экскурсы [Sovfrakht: 70 Years Historical Digressions]. Moscow: Pervaya Obraztsovaya Tipografiya, 1999.


Histories of Individual Shipping Companies

Badigin, Konstatin. На Морских Дорогах: Ледовитый Океан, Белое Море, Тихий Океан [On Sea Roads: Arctic Ocean, White Sea, Pacific Ocean]. Moscow: Moscow Publishing House, 1978.

Dimenshtejne, M. (Ed.) На Морской Вахте: Очерки О Революционных, Боевых И Трудовых Традициях На Морском Транспорте Советской Латвии [On Sea Watch: Sketches about Revolutionary, Fighting and Labor Traditions on Sea Transports of Soviet Latvia.] Riga: Evaigene Publishing House, 1968.

Eremenko, Alexander Kuzmich and Yatskevich, Vitold Vitoldovich . По Истории Танкерного Флота Черноморъя И Новороссийского Морского Пароходства [On the History of Tanker Fleet Black Sea and Novorossisk Sea Shipping Company.] Moscow: Progress Academy, 1995.

Eremenko, Alexander Kuzmich and Yatskevich, Vitold Vitoldovich . Юпитер На Восходе [Jupiter On The Rise]. Moscow: Progress-Akademiya, 1995.

Eremenko, Alexander Kuzmich and Yatskevich, Vitold Vitoldovich. Рейс Длиной В 140 Лет [Voyages Across 140 Years]. Novorossisk: Jupter, 1996.

Frolov, J.M. На Вахте Мира И Труда: Истории Азовского Морского Пароходства [On Watch with the World and Work: History of the Azov Sea Shipping Company]. Donets: Donbass, 1986.

Ganapolskii, E. Гидрографическая Служба Черноморского Флота Краткие Сведения о Кораблях, Судах и Катерах Черноморского Флота, Участвовавших в Гидрографических Работах [Hydrographic Serviceы Of The Black Sea Fleet Brief Data on the Ships, Vessels and Boats of the Black Sea Fleet, Participating in Hydrographic Works]. Sevastopol: Hydrographic Service of the Black Sea Fleet, 1996.

Ginzburg, R. Y. et. al. Дорога в Океан: Очерки По Истории Флота Северного Морского Пароходства 1920-1970 гг. [Ocean Roads: Sketches on History of the Fleet of the Northern Sea Shipping Company 1920-1970]. Arkhangel’sk: Severo-Zapadnoe Book Publishing House, 1970.

Kratsavtsev, L.B. Орской Транспорт Европейского Севера России (1918-1985) Проблемы Развития и Модернизации [Sea Transport in Northern European Russia (1918-1985): Problems of Development and Modernization]. (Arkhangel’sk: M.B. Lomonosov State University, 2003)

Ministry of the Marine Sea Fleet. Мирный Флот Дальневосточных Морей Дальневосточное Морское Пароходство [Peace Fleet Of The Far East Seas: Far East Sea Shipping Company]. Moscow: Ministry of Marine Sea Fleet, 1980.

Nikolaeva, Anna Grigorevna and Kromtosva, Maria Sergeevna. Сквозь Льды И Штормы [Through Ice and Storm]. Arkhangel’sk: Pravda Severa, 2004.

Osichanskii, Petr. П.П. Куянцев: Я Бы Снова Выбрал Море . . . [P.P. Kuyantsev: I Would Again Choose the Sea . . .] Vladivostok: Far Eastern Association of Sea Captains, 1998.

Otrovsky, J.I. Дальневосточное Морское Пароходство: 1880-1980 [The Far East Sea Shipping Company: 1880-1980]. Vladivostok: Far East Book Publishing House, 1980.

Pavlii, Vladimir Andreevich. Азовское Море. Очерки Истории Торгового И Военного Мореплавания [The Azov Sea: Sketches of the History of Commerce and Military Navigation]. Leporskogo: PMTS MK “Azovstal”, 1994.

Pavlii, Vladimir Andreevich. “Суда Азовского Морского Пароходства За 125 Лет Своей Деятельности (1871-1996 Гг.) [Ships Of The Azov Sea Shipping Company over 125 Years of Operations (1871-1996)]”. Азовский Морской Альманах 1998 [Azov Sea Almanac 1998]. 1996: No. 1, pp. 6-22.

Pavlii, Vladimir Andreevich. “Возрождение Азовского морского пароходства (1943-46 г.г.) [Rebirth of the Asov Sea Shipping Company (1946-46).” Азовский Морской Альманах 1998 [Azov Sea Almanac 1998]. 1998: No. 2, pp.

Shiyukov, E.F., Mitin, L.I, and Tsemko, V.P. Катастрофи в Чорному Море [Catastrophes on the Black Sea].

Sobolev, Valentine Ivanovich. Ветер Балтики: История Балтийского Морско¬го пароходств [Baltic Winds: History of the Baltic Sea Shipping Company] Labor Red Banner Printing House: Leningrad, 1985.


Wartime Histories

Kuchepatov, Yuri Nikolaevich. Огненные Мили [Fiery Miles]. Arkhangel’sk: Severo-Zapadnoe Book Publishing House, 1978.

Maksyatkin, Boris. Юнги Огненных Рейсов о Ленд-Лизе [Cadet’s Fiery Voyages of Lend Lease]. Vladivostok, 2004.

Meshchanskaia, Svetlana. Противостояние Японии и СССР/Бои у озера Хасан (29 июля - 11 Августа 1938 Года) [Confrontation of Japan and USSR: Fighting at Lake Khasan (July, 29 to August, 11, 1938)]. Moscow: BTV-MN, 2002.

Paperno, Alla. Тайны и История: Ленд-Лез Тихий Океан [Secrets and History: Lend-Lease Pacific Ocean]. Moscow: Terra-Book Club, 1998.

Platanov, A.V. Арктические Полярные Конвои 1941-1945 Гг. [The Arctic Polar Convoys Of 1941-45]. St. Petersburg: Galeya Print, 2000.

Rudnev, Georgi Alekseevich. Огненные Рейсы [Fiery Voyages]. Vladivostok: Dal’nevostochnoe Book Publishing House, 1975.

———. Огненные Рейсы [Fiery Voyages]. Second edition. Vladivostok: Dal’nevostochnoe Book Publishing House, 1990.

———. На Морских Дорогах Войны [On the Seaways of War]. Vladivostok: Dal’nevostochnoe University Publishing House, 1995.

Somkin, Alexander Grigorevich. Мы Помним Вас... [We Remember You…]. Arkhangel’sk: Pravda Severa: 1995.

Sorokazherdev , Vladimir Vasilevich. Тайну Хранило Море [The Secret Was Stored with the Sea]. Murmansk: Murmank Publishing House, 1996.

Strelbitskii, K.B. Август 1945: Советско-Японская Война На Море - Цена Победы [August 1945: The Soviet-Japanese War At Sea: The Price of Victory]. Lvov: The International Center of Fleet History, 1996.

Tsimbal, E.I. Огненные Рейсы [Fiery Voyages]. Odessa: Publishing House “Beacon”, 1979


WWII Naval Chronicles

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 1: From June 22 to December, 31 1941. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenmorizdat,1945.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 2: From January 1 to May 15, 1942. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenmorizdat, 1945.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 3, Part 1: From May 16 to August 31, 1942. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenizdat, 1947.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 3, Part 2: From September 1 to December 31, 1942. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenizdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Приложения к Хронике Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Appendices to the Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 3, Parts 1 and 2. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. [Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 4: From January 1 to June 30, 1943. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 5: From July 1 to December 31, 1943. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1951.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 6: From January 1 to June 18, 1944. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1951.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 7: From June 19 to December 31, 1944. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1951.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Балтийском море и Ладожском озере [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Baltic Sea and Ladoga Lake]. Release 8: From January 1 to May 14, 1945. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1951.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 1: From July 22 to December 31, 1941. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenmorizdat, 1945.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 2: From January 1 to June 30, 1942. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenmorizdat, 1946.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 3: From July 1 to December 31, 1942. Moscow-Leningrad: Voenmorizdat, 1946.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 4: From January 1 to June 30, 1943. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1947.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 5: From July 1 to December 31, 1943. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 6: From January 1 to June 30, 1944. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1947.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 7: From July 1 to December 31, 1944. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1950.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Северном Морском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Northern Sea Theater]. Release 8: From January 1 to May 9, 1945. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Боевых Действий Тихоокеанского Флота В Воине С Японией: 9 Августа до 3 Сентября, 1945 г. [Chronicle of Operations of the Pacific Fleet in the War with Japan: 9 August to 3 September, 1945]. Moscow: Voenzdat, 1949.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea]. Release 1: June 21 to December 31, 1941. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1945.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea]. Release 2: January 1 to July 3, 1942. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1946.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea Theater]. Release 3: From July 4 to December 31, 1942. Moscow: Voenmorizdat, 1948.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea Theater]. Release 4: From January 41 to June 30, 1943. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1948.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea Theater]. Release 5: From July 1 to December 31, 1943. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1950.

Naval Ministry of the USSR. Хроника Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза на Черноморском Театре [Chronicles of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union on the Black Sea Theater: January 1 to September 9, 1945]. Release 6. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1951.


Histories of Shipbuilders

Kuznetsov, L.A., et. al. Адмиралтейские Верфи: Люди, Корабли, Годы 1926-1996 [Admiralty Shipyard: People, Ships, Years 1926-1996]. St. Petersburg: Gangut, 1996.

Kuznetsov, K.A., Libshits, L.Z., Plyasunov, V.I. Балтийский Судостроительный 1856-1917: Очерк истории Балтийского судостроительного завода имени С. Орджоникидзе [Baltic Ship-Building 1856-1917: Historical Sketches of the S.Ordzhonikidze Baltic Shipbuilding Factory]. Leningrad: Sudostroenne, 1970.

Spasskogo, I.D., ed. История Отечественного Судостроения: в Пяти Томах [History of domestic shipbuilding: In Five Volumes]. St. Petersburg: Shipbuilding Press, 1996.

G.I.Tsygankov, G.I. et. al. Херсонский Судостроительный Завод Очерки Истории [The Kherson Ship-Building Factory: Historical Sketches]. Simferopol: Taurida, 1994

Usoltsev, Vladimir Stepanovich.. Построены Корабелами Севастополя [Constructed by the Shipbuildings of Sevastopol]. Sevastopol: Publishing House “Antiar”, 1995.

Vilenskii, G.I. et. al... Адмиралтейские Верфи: Люди, Корабли, Годы 1704-1925 [Admiralty Shipyard: Ships, Years 1926-1996]. St. Petersburg: Gangut, 1994.


Directories of Ships

Alliluev, Aleksandr Aleksandrovich. С Именем Костромы [With The Name Of Kostroma]. St. Petersburg: Velen, 1995.

Berezhnoi, Sergey S. Советские Суда и Предоставляют Ленд-Лез [Soviet Ships and Vessels of Lend-Lease]. St. Petersburg: Velen Publishing House, 1994.

———. Военные Корабли и Суда Советского Морского Флота, 1917–1927 [The Warships and Auxiliary Vessels of the Soviet Navy, 1917–1927]. Moscow: Military Publishing House of the Ministries of Defense of the USSR, 1981.

———. Военные корабли и Суда Советского Морского Флота, 1928–1945 [The Warships and Auxiliary Vessels of the Soviet Navy, 1928–1945]. Moscow: Military Publishing House of the Ministries of Defense of the USSR, 1988.

———. Трофеи И Репарации ВМФ СССР: Справочник [Trophies and Reparations of the Navy of the USSR: A Directory]. Yakutsk: Sakhapoligrafizdat, 1994.

———. Вспомогательные Корабли И Суда ВМФ СССР: 1941 –1945 Справочник [Auxiliary Ships And Vessels Of The Navy Of The USSR: 1941 – 1945 Directory]. St. Petersburg, 1999.

Golubev, A. Потери Корабельного Состава Северного Флота и Гражданских Ведомств На Северном Морском Театре В Великой Отечественной Войны [Ship Losses in the Soviet Northern Fleet and Civil Departments of the Northern Sea Theater in the Great Domestic War]. St. Petersburg, 1999.

Lemachko, Boris V., translated by Siegfried Breyer. Deutsche Schiffe unter dem Roten Stern [German Ships under the Russian Star]. Marine-Arsenal Sonderheft Volume 4. Dorheim: Podzun-Pallas-Verlag, 1992.

Ministry of the Marine Sea Fleet. Суда Министерства Морского Флота: Погибшие в Период Великой Отечественной Войны 1941-1945 гг. [Ships of the Ministry of a Marine SeaFleet: Victims of the Great Domestic War of 1941-1945]. Soyuzmorniiproekt: St. Petersburg, 1989.

Ministry of the Marine Sea Fleet. Морские Транспортные Суда: Справочник [Sea Transport Ships: Directory]. Leningrad: Morskoi Transport, 1961.

Novikova, I.B. Список Кораблей Русского Флота: Парового И Броненосного: 1861-1917 [Handbook Of Ships of The Russian Fleet, Steam and Armored, 1861-1917]. Moscow, 1918. Reprinted version by Russian Motor Books, 2003.

Register of the USSR. Регистр Морских Судов: 1938-39 [Register of Sea Ships: 1938-39]. Leningrad: Vodnii Transport, 1938.

Riga Historical Society and Maritime Museum. Enciklopēdija Latvijas Jūrniecības Vēsture [Encyclopedia of Latvian Nautical History]. Riga: Riga Historical Society and Maritime Museum.

Shirokorad, A.E. Корабли и катера ВМФ СССР 1939-45 гг. [Ships and Boats of the USSR Navy, 1939 to 1945]. Minsk: Kharvest, 2002.

Spirikhin, C.A., Суда Северного Морского Пароходства И Полярной Гидро¬графии [The Fleet of the Northern Sea Shipping Company and Polar Hydrography]. Arkhangel’sk: Publishing House Pravda Severa, 2003.

Taras, A.E. Военные корабли Имперского Российского Флота, 1892–1917 [Warships of the Imperial Russian Fleet, 1892–1917]. Minsk: Kharbast, 2000.

Trifunov, Yu.N. Суда Торгового Флота Германии, Финляндии И Румынии, Переданные После Второй Мировой Войны [Ships of the Merchant Marine Fleet of Germany, Finland and Romania, Transferred to the Soviet Union after the Second World War]. (???, ???: 2002)


Miscellaneous

Muromov, I. Сто Великих Кораблекрушений [A Hundred Great Shipwrecks]. Moscow: Veche, 1999.

Vasevich, Vasim. Оказание О Пароходах России [The Legends of the Steamships of Russia]. Moscow: Redaktsiya Gazeti Morskie Vesti Rossi, 2002.

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 01 Oct 2005 22:45

Hello, Marty!

Excellent list of references about Soviet ships!!! I am envious 8) :wink: How do you get them? AFAIK it is quite hard to buy even modern Russian literature via Internet because of some delivery problems to Western Europe or USA. As for the old Soviet sources - this seems almost impossible.......As for me, for example, I asked my friends several times to buy for me books or journals during their business visits to Moscow. I also bought several books in Moscow/St. Petersburg by myself several years ago.

So as for sunk "Maxim Gorkii" during WWII - a very unclear question......There is a mistake in the list, I`ve posted, probably; or we don`t have enough info; or that was a small ship..............

I found several days ago the short info about the armament of Soviet timber ships of "Volgoles" type during the war. Many of them were unarmed, but "Komiles" was armed in Arhangelsk and UK with 1x76mm, 4x20mm, 2 MGs (a very strong armament for Soviet convoy transport ship and had 14 military seamen on board), "Kuznets Lesov" was armed in Vladivostok and USA with 5 MGs (had 9 military seamen on board).
Exact amount of armament of "Sevzaples" and "Starii bolshevik" I couldn`t find, but found that "Sevzaples" brought down one Ju88 near Murmansk by MG fire, "Stary bolshevik" also brought down one German bomber and damaged German submarine by artillery fire during its heroic navigation (PQ-16 convoy).

Marty, you wrote about "Volgoles" timber ships that they had 3974 GRT (gross registered tonns), my info about the ships of that type - 8130 metric tonns (full tonnage), 5500 metric tonns of cargos.

Also I found today some info about tanker "Maxim Gorkii" - it was bought in Japan in 1937 together with several another ships, were built in Japan especially for USSR. "Maxim Gorkii" was the first tanker of Krabomorzverotrest (Soviet Far-Eastern State Crab Fishing Company) and was used for supply the fishing boats. It came to Vladivostok from Yokahama in summer 1937 and to Petropavlovsk from Vladivostok on 13 November 1937. Specifications: speed 8.5 knots, range 7400 miles, tonnage 2176 t, crew 32 men, dimensions 60 x 11 m; 1 hold, 8 tanks; diesel 800 hp.
Soviet seamen were very dissappointed wuth the quality of the tanker, which didn`t correspond to Soviet requirements to sea transport ships - tanker had bad diesel, electric system and very obsolete radiostation, also the quality of the hull steel was low. The first Soviet captain of the tanker wrote an official report about its impracticability and mentioned that Japan was an enemy of USSR and especially built such bad ships for the Soviets.
"Maxim Gorkii" was returned back to Vladivostok in December 1937 for reequipment. The ship could make the first navigation only in May 1938, staying 220 days in Vladivostok and Petropavlovsk ports for modernization.
The tanker made 5 navigations during 1938 and 3 (instead planned 7) navigations during 1939. Every week seamen found new ship disadvantages, the most important of them was the bad quality of Japanese oil pumps, so the ship lost 15% of oil into the sea every time during load/unload! The crewmembers developed a new oil pipe-line for their tanker and a new device was installed in 1939. The oil leakage disappeared and unload time increased two times!

On 23 September 1939 the tanker collided with "Nenets" diesel ship, heavily damaged both ships. There were two reasons of the accident - mistake of the captain of "Maxim Gorkii" and Japanese diesel, which didn`t give the reverse at that time (!)
On 15 November 1939 the repaired tanker run aground because Japanese diesel didn`t give the reverse again (!) The chief-mechanic was arrested, but the captain could prove the low quality of the diesel, so chief-mechanic continued his service.
On 27 January 1940 during the way to Petropavlovsk tanker was damaged by heavy storm, accumulators burned (repaired in 7 hours), nose hold and several tanks were sunk. Several hundreds of oil were lost also. But the tanker could reach the port.

It was used during WWII at Far-Eastern routes and was broken up only in 1980s.


And I would like to ask one of my old questions in this forum - about the transport ships of "Kuban" type (6830 t, refrigerator ships were built by Admiralty Shipyard in Leningrad in 1929-1932) - see my post from 23 July.
AFAIK four ships of that type were built and I found some info about them - only "Kuban" was sunk during WWII (2 July 1942 at Novorossiysk port by German bombers), the other three ("Neva", "Volga", "Rion") survived the war. I have no info about "Neva", only that the ship was used for cargo transportation from USSR to Spain during the Spanish Civil War.
Do you know something about "Neva"?

Regards, BIGpanzer

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Neva

Post by mjbollinger » 04 Oct 2005 12:14

Hello,

My information on NEVA is somewhat limited

1930 Launched as NEVA 25.08.30
1931 Completed as NEVA (STF-ChGK) 11.31
1934 NEVA (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1936 First ship to bring Soviet military aid to Spain
1941 NEVA (DGMP) date estimated; sometime in 1940s
1978 Broken up in USSR in 1978 or (according to some sources) 1982

Thanks for the information on MAXIM GORKII. I was familiar with the collision with NENETS but not of the ongoing problems with construction. Very helpful.

As for my books, I've had some maritime enthusiasts identify promising material for me and sell it to me via email. Very expensive, but it does lead to some good material.

In terms of VOLGOLES-class size, the volume I have seen is 3946 or 3974 GRT depending upon the ship. Your information, since it is measured in metric tonness, probably refers to weight and not volume. I suspect the 8130 metric tonnes is a measure of displacement (fully loaded) and the 5,500 metric tonnes refers to deadweight tonnage. This sounds plausible given the ~4000 GRT volume.

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 04 Oct 2005 18:57

Hi, Marty!
Thanks for the reply!

As for "Neva" refrigerator ship - I can only assume that the ship was used as military transport at Pacific Ocean for Lend-Lease and other cargos transportation between USSR and USA during WWII as "Rion" did (the same type of ship)

I found also some gaps in my knowledge about Soviet dry cargo ships of “Tsurupa” type – they were used widely as military transport ships during WWII at Black Sea (my post from 24 July with the specifications and other info).
9 were built in 1930-1941 by Nikolaev and Sevastopol shipyards: “Tsurupa”, “Skvortsov-Stepanov”; “Nogin”, “Anri Barbus”, “Chapaev”, “Ulianov”, “Pugachev”, “Timiryazev” and “Lepse”.

1. "Tsurupa" - no info, help needed.

2. "Skvortsov-Stepanov" - no info, help needed.

3.
“Nogin” transported ammunition and evacuated civilians from Black Sea ports. It was sunk on 5 January 1942 at Feodosia port during the Soviet landing operation by two German bomb hits, but it was raised in 1944 and repaired. "Nogin" was used then at Pacific Ocean and once was arrested by Japanese coast defence forces for two months (178 Soviet transport ships were stopped and arrested for "customs inspection" by Japanese in 1941-1944, but then were released). “Nogin” participated in Soviet landing operations against Japan in Korea and Kuril Islands in August 1945.

If this info is correct - no further questions

4. "Anri Barbus" - no info, help needed.

5.
“Chapaev” made dangerous navigations from Novorossiysk to Odessa during the defense of Odessa, transporting in all 8000 soldiers, 72 cannons and Katyushas, 120 cars, 600 horses and 7600 t of ammunition; towing damaged ships. It evacuated many thousands of civilians from Odessa. The crew repulsed more than 15 attacks of German torpedo-bombers and avoided 90 bombs. Armed with only 2x45mm guns and 4 MGs “Chapaev” was the first Soviet transport ship, which could brought down the bomber (September 1941). The ship with 200 soldiers, 10 cannons, 240 horses and 1300 t of ammunition on board was sunk on 1 March 1942 near Sevastopol by two Soviet mines because of navigation mistake (some sources report that it was torpedoed by German submarine); 120 men, including captain, were lost. Others were rescued by patrol boats in 15 min.

Everything is clear here, no questions

6. "Ulianov" - no info, help needed.

7.
"Pugachev" participated in Soviet landing operations against Japan in Korea and Kuril Islands in August 1945. Another sources give the info that "Pugachev" with grain on board was towed by refrigerator "Kuban" (see above about this ship) and was sunk on 30 September 1941 by German bombers. "Kuban" rescued all crew from "Pugachev". Now "Pugachev" is the popular place for diving. So, probably another "Pugachev" participated in landing operations against Japanese in 1945

Could you make clear this question, please?

8.
“Timiryazev” transported cargos from USSR to Republican Spain during the Spanish Civil war. On 30 August 1938 it was sunk at Mediterranean Sea near Algeria by torpedoes from Spanish destroyer. The lifeboat with crew was rescued by Algerian ship. But, probably, that "Timiryazev" was a cargo ship of another type, because some sources report that dry cargo ship "Timiryazev" ("Tsurupa" type) was built only between 1939-1941.

Could you make clear this question, please? I need the info about both "Timiryazev".

9.
"Lepse" was sunk at the port by its crew to prevent the capture by Germans in 1941. In 1945 it was raised and reequipped. Since 1961 till now "Lepse" have been using as auxiliary ship/technological base for transporting the nuclear fuel (Barents sea). Old ship with rusty hull with hundreds tonns of radioactive waste on board is one of the most dangerous place in the world now (Murmansk port, North Russia).

In which port "Lepse" was sunk by the crew?


Thanks in advance and hope you`ll post excellent info as always :wink:

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Updates

Post by mjbollinger » 04 Oct 2005 23:32

Hi BIGPanzer

Here is some information for you.

1. TSIURYPA

1932 Completed as TSIURYPA (STF-ChGK)
1934 TSIURYPA (ChGMP) 03.15.34
1938 Captured by Spainish ALMIRANTE CERVERA 23.10.38 in Mediterranean
1939 CASTILLA VILLAFRANCA (Spanish Government)
1942 CASTILLA VILLAFRANCA (Empresa Nacional "Elcano" de la Marina Mercante)
1950 CASTILLO AULENCIA (Empresa Nacional "Elcano" de la Marina Mercante)
1952 Chartered to Company Nacional Elcano
1964 Broken up in Castellon arrive 04.64

2. SKVORTSOV-STEPANOV

1932 Completed as SKVORTSOV STEPANOV (STF-ChGK)
1934 SKVORTSOV STEPANOV (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1938 Captured by Spanish CANARIS 26.05.38 in Mediterranean
1939 CASTILLO MAQUEDA (Spanish Government)
1942 CASTILLO MAQUEDA (Empresa Nacional “Elcano” de la Marina Mercante)
1961 Broken up 02.61 in Cadiz

3. NOGIN

1929 Laid down as NOGIN 01.11.29
1930 Launched as NOGIN 06.11.30
1933 Completed as NOGIN (STF-ChGK) 21.11.33
1934 NOGIN (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1941 NOGIN (ChABU)
1941 Participated in Feodosiya landing operation 12.41
1942 Bombed and sunk at moorings 02.01.42
1944 Raised and repaired in Novorossisk
1945 NOGIN (ChGMP)
1967 Withdrawn from service
1968 Broken up

4. HENRI BARBUSSE

1929 Ordered as SKYLANSKII (USSR) 05.11.29
1930 Launched as SKYLANSKII (USSR) 30.12.30
1933 Completed SKYLANSKI (ChGMP) 21.12.33
1935 HENRI BARBUSSE (ChGMP)
1941 Sunk in collision in Black Sea 04.41

5. CHAPAEV -- do you have the right ship here? This is a converted USSB class ship.

1915 Laid down as THUBAN 08.03.15
1915 Launched as THUBAN 07.08.15
1915 Completed as THUBAN (Van Nievelt & Goudriaan) 08.15
1918 THUBAN (USSB) requisitioned at Baltimore 03.18
1919 THUBAN (Van Nievelt & Goudriaan) 06.19
1934 VITEBSK (ChGMP)
1935 CHAPAEV (ChGMP)
1941 CHAPAEV (ChABU)
1942 Accidently mined 44.24N-33.23E in Black Sea 01.03.42 with 88 killed

Did you instead mean the unfinished ship of the NOGIN class:

1936 Launched as CHAPAEV (ChGMP)
1941 Uncomplete at start of WWII
1946 Still uncompleted
1947 Possibly completed -- but no evidence

6. ULIANOV -- Do yo mean ALEKSANDR ULIANOV?

1938 Completed as ALEKSANDR ULIANOV (ChGMP)
1941 ALEKSANDR ULIANOV (ChABU)
1943 Bombed and sunk at Tuapse on 23.02.43

7. There were three PUGACHEVs

#1: A Liberty class ship
1943 Launched as LOUIS AGASSIZ 04.43
1943 Completed as EMILIAN PUGACHEV (DGMP) under Lend Lease 21.04.43
1945 Army transport during Kuiles landing 08.45
1977 Handed over to Glavvtorchermetu for scrapping 17.08.77
1977 Broken up in USSR

#2: A USSB ship from the US
1919 Completed as LAKE FESTINA (USSB) 06.19
1929 SAMOED (STF-ChGK)
1934 SAMOED (ChGMP) 03.15.34
1941 SAMOED (ChABU)
1943 EMELYAN PUGACHEV (DGMP)
1945 EMELYAN PUGACHEV (ChGMP)
1960 Deleted LRS

#3: An unfinished ship from Nikolaev that fits your description
1938 Completed as PUGACHEV (ChGMP)
1941 Bombed while under tow in Kerch Strait 30.09.41

8. Two ships by this name

#1: 2151 GRT ship completed in Nikolaev from the TSIURYPA class -- but the date is uncertain (1931 or 1934?)
1931 Completed as TIMIRYAZEV (STF-ChGK)
1934 TIMIRYAZEV (ChGMP) 15.03.34
1937 Torpedoed by Italian TURBINE in Spanish Civil War off Algeria 30.08.37

#2: An old ship transferred under Lend Lease
1920 Completed as AQUARIUS (USSB) 05.20
1922 AQUARIUS (Green Star)
1922 AQUARIUS (USSB)
1933 AQUARIUS (Lykes Bros. - Ripley SS. Co., Inc.)
1938 AQUARIUS (Lykes Bros. SS. Co., Inc.
1941 AQUARIUS (WSA) 10.12.41
1945 TIMIRIAZEV (DGMP) under Lend Lease 02.03.45
1950 TIMIRIAZEV (ChGMP) 09.03.50
1959 Handed over to Glavvtorchermetu for scrapping

9. LEPSE was scuttled in the Hopi estuary according my information

1934 Laid down as LEPSE at Nikolaevsk
1936 Construction suspended
1937 Construction shifted to Kherson
1942 Scuttled unfinished 10.10.42 in Hopi estuary artificial harbor
1945 Raised and towed to Poti; stored there
1958 Arrived at Admiralty Shipyard for rebuilding
1961 Service ship for refueling of nuclear icebreaker LENIN until 1966
1971 Used to support defuleing operation of LENIN, ARKTIKA and SIBERIAKOV
1981 Retired as storage ship with used nuclear fuel
1990 Transferred to inactive list in Murmansk
1995 Declared toxic nuclear waste site
2002 Agreement signed on remediation

Marty
(Just back from Dusseldorf)

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Post by BIGpanzer » 05 Oct 2005 21:20

Hi, Marty!
Thanks for the info! When you are going to visit Düsseldorf next time, write me a PM, we should meet as I am visiting Köln (Cologne) quite often :wink:

As for the info about ships you`ve posted:
1. "Tsurupa" - thanks a lot. I didn`t know before that the ship was captured by Spanish cruiser and used later as Spanish transport ship till 1960s. I know only that Spanish Nationalist Navy captured several Soviet ships, which were used for transportation of tanks, fighters and volunteers to Republican Spain during the Spanish Civil War. Also Spanish nationalists sunk three Soviet transport ships: "Komsomol" (see one of my first posts here), "Timiryazev" and "Blagoev". Because USSR supported Republican Spain not very officially, Soviets couldn`t arm the transport ships with artillery, and, of course, couldn`t send cruisers and destroyers for their defence in Mediterranian. Unarmed transport ships had no enough speed, of course, to avoid the contacts with heavy cruisers, destroyers and submarines of Spanish Navy.
Nevertheless, such accidents caused great diplomatic scandals as ALL Soviet ships were captured and sunk by Spanish nationalists during their way back to USSR (so they already had no ammunition and volunteers on board), also the crewmembers were tortured at Spanish prisons.

Marty, sorry, I have one notice of spelling "Tsurupa". In German sources I found the name as "Zürüpa", and my Russian colleagues also told me that both "ü" sounds are similar in the word. So you should use not "Tsiurypa" (two different spelling of the same sound), but "Tsurupa" or "Tsiuriupa" or something like this.

2. The same about "Skvortsov-Stepanov" - thanks for the info!

3. As for the "Nogin" - you wrote that the ship was sunk on 2 January 1942 at moorings at Feodosiya port. I found the info that "Nogin" was sunk on 5 January 1942 during the Soviet landing operation by two German bomb hits at Feodosiya port. Nevertheless, this is, of course, very small differences.
Later (in 1944) it was raised and repaired at Novorossiysk (not Novorossisk - I`ve already checked spelling with atlas).

Well, the most interesting about "Nogin" is that some Russian literature sources as well as several Internet sites I could find mention that "Nogin" participated in transport operations in Pacific in 1944-45, was arrested by Japanese coast defence forces for two months, later participated in Soviet landing operations against Japan in Korea and Kuril Islands in August 1945 as military transport.
According to your info it was used since 1944 at Black Sea as before. So, I believe to your info as it was quite hard to move the civil ship through the Mediterranean, Atlantic etc. in 1944 to Pacific. And Soviets had enough transport ships in Pacific Ocean for military cargos transportation and landing operations, there was no need in one additional (and repaired) ship. Probably, some Russian historians mistake the Black Sea "Nogin" with another ship under the same name in Pacific. But what "Nogin" was used in Pacific in 1944-1945? Probably, really Black Sea "Nogin" as one Russian Internet site mention that that was the ship of "Tsurupa" type, but this seems a little bit strange for me........

4. "Henri Barbusse" - thanks for the info!

5. As for "Chapaev" - very strange. Two Russian sources about "Chapaev" I could find report that the ship was really launched in 1936, the same year mothballed, but completed in 1941 by Mariuple Shipyard.

It made dangerous navigations from Novorossiysk to Odessa during the defense of Odessa, transporting in all 8000 soldiers, 72 cannons and Katyushas, 120 cars, 600 horses and 7600 t of ammunition; towing damaged ships. It evacuated many thousands of civilians from Odessa. The crew repulsed more than 15 attacks of German torpedo-bombers and avoided 90 bombs. Armed with only 2x45mm guns and 4 MGs “Chapaev” was the first Soviet transport ship, which could brought down the bomber (September 1941). The ship with 200 soldiers, 10 cannons, 240 horses and 1300 t of ammunition on board was sunk on 1 March 1942 near Sevastopol by two Soviet mines because of navigation mistake (some sources report that it was torpedoed by German submarine); 120 men, including captain, were lost. Others were rescued by patrol boats in 15 min.


OK, by the way you wrote about 88 killed men, my archive data is - 120 (lets assume that nobody knows exactly as ship transported near 200 soldiers in addition to the crewmembers and one of my source mentions also 88 or 120 men. It will be correct to give both numbers in this case).
So, very-very strange as all info I`ve found and posted here almost completely corresponds (especially data - 01.03.1942) with your info about old ship "Chapaev" (launched in 1915). Probably, you are right as always, but that means that my sources mistake and their authors mistake new unfinished "Chapaev" with old one (but it was especially mentioned that "Chapaev" was fortunatelly completed just before the German-Soviet War and began to participate in military operations immediately). And that old one really made many dangerous navigations under German bombs, transported ammunition, soldiers, brought down the German bomber as the first Soviet civil ship and was exploded on two Soviet mines because of navigation mistake.

But check you sources also to be 100% sure. I wanted to compare the deadweight tonnage of the ships to find the differences between new "Chapaev" and old one. But the same source gives the following: "Timiryazev" (destroyed by Spanish destroyer) - 3226 t, exploded on two mines "Chapaev" - 3556 (!). According to these data they were the similar ships. What was the deadweight tonnage (in metric tonns) of USSB old ships? Lets compare!

Of course, if we could find the WWII photo of "Chapaev" that close all questions...............

6. "Ulianov". No, "Aleksandr Ulianov" was near 100% sure the ship of another type (deadweight tonnage only 2150 metric tonns), also all ships of "Tsurupa"/"Nogin" type were named only with family names of the Russian/Soviet leaders, heroes etc., not with their full names.
As for "Alexandr Ulianov" - the ship was sunk indeed 23.02.1943 at Tuapse port by German bomb direct hit during the ammunition unloading (ammunition detonated, 52 men were killed - almost all crewmembers and several port workers).

Probably, "Ulianov" was also unfinished in 1941 (I found the mention that the ship was mothballed in 1936 the same as "Chapaev") or finished just before the war the same as "Chapaev" (according to my sources :wink: :roll:).

By the way, what data I have: "Tsurupa" and "Skvortsov-Stepanov" - launched in 1930 by Nikolaev Shipyard (the same data with yours); "Nogin" and "Henri Barbusse" - launched in 1930 by Sevastopol Shipyard (the same data with yours). "Tsurupa" was completed in 1932, other three - in 1933 (almost the same data with yours). Last five ships of the series ("Timiryazev", "Ulianov", "Pugachev", "Chapaev", "Lepse") were launched, but mothballed in 1936 because of Spanish Civil War (interesting, why the Spanish Civil War was the reason?). According to this list Spanish destroyer "Turbine" couldn`t torpedoed "Timiryazev" of "Nogin" type, but torpedoed another "Timiryazev". OK, but only if the info in my list is correct (I am not 100% sure as you understand). So, lets continue - "Timiryazev" and "Lepse" was completed (or partially completed) only in 1941 by Kherson Shipyard, another three - in 1941 by Mariuple Shipyard........

7. "Pugachev" - probably was unfinished in 1941 by Mariuple Shipyard (transferred from Nikolaev Shipyard). One my source mention that unfinished "Pugachev" with grain on board was towed by refrigerator "Kuban" and was sunk on 30 September 1941 by German bombers. "Kuban" rescued all crew from "Pugachev". Now "Pugachev" is the popular place for diving. So this is in full accordance with your info.
Another source report that "Pugachev" (it was mentioned that of "Nogin" type - mistake of the author?) participated in Soviet landing operations against Japan in Korea and Kuril Islands in August 1945. If so - seems strange, the same situation as with "Nogin", see above. That was, probably, another "Pugachev" - a "Liberty"-type Lend-Lease ship "Pugachev" (according to your info, I completely believe it here) participated in landing operations against Japanese in August 1945.

As for the third "Pugachev" - by the way, just note, the ship indeed moved during the war from the Black Sea to the Pacific (and even back in 1945!). A very dangerous navigations, but this fact a little bit proved the possible transfer of "Nogin" and "Pugachev" to the Pacific (but I don`t think so, see above :wink: :roll: )

8. Ok, "Timiryazev" :roll: According to the production list (see 6.) Spanish destroyer "Turbine" couldn`t torpedoed "Timiryazev" of "Nogin" type, but torpedoed another "Timiryazev". I believe nevertheless that "Turbine" torpedoed the "right" "Timiryazev" (another source gives deadweight of the torpedoed ship - 3226 metric tonns, quite similar to "Nogin" type; also your sources prove this).

9. ........got tired a little bit, want to sleep :lol: . Well, "Lepse".............
By the way, your info about the construction of "Lepse" is almost in full accordance with my production list (see 6.), that`s excellent! But you wrote that
Scuttled unfinished 10.10.42 in Hopi estuary artificial harbor.
This is a small mistake, probably, as the ship was scuttled in 1941 by the crew to prevent the capture by Germans. The ship located at Kherson, where several ships were scuttled and exploded in August 1941 to prevent their capture.

See the page about "Lepse" today - http://www.bellona.no/en/international/ ... 37625.html and somewhere else on this site about the history of the ship.


Best regards, BIGpanzer

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Update

Post by mjbollinger » 06 Oct 2005 15:16

1. Thanks for the information. You're right about the spelling. In fact, the only correct spelling for the ship is Цюрупа. Using the Library of Congress transliteration protocol (there are others, but this is the one I am using) that should be spelled in English as Tsiurupa. I don't always remember the spellings exactly in English and tend to rely on the Cyrllic.

3. Likewise, the only correct spelling for the town is Новороссийск. The transliteration system I use turns that into Novorossiisk though other protocols will make that Novorossiysk. You are right about the date. Some sources say 02.01.42 and others say 02.05.42. I've seen both reported.

5. I have also seen these reports about Chapaev -- ships by this name has always confused me and many others. There were three operating with this name in the Black Sea

In terms of completion, Spasskogo says it was launched in 1936 and completed in Mariupol in his very good book on domestic shipbuilding, but he also reports that the information is uncertain -- the only time he does this. I do know that a picture I have of Chapaev in 1946 shows a ship that does appear to be completed and others have told me that it was never finished. If you have certain information on this, I'd be very interested.

My GRT for Chapaev (Tsiurupa class) is 2150. (My GRT for Tsiurupa is 2081, and for Skvortsov Stepanov it is 2105.) The ship of 3556 GRT named Chapaev is the former Thuban acquired in 1934 and accidently mined in the Black Sea in 1942. The ship of 2638 GRT is the former Lake Farber acquired in 1937 and sunk by torpedo plane attack in 1942. It took me a long time to sort out the Chapaev ships in the Black Sea. I cannot promise that I have done it perfectly.

6. I have seen both full names and only last names used for Ulianov. You are probably right. (I have also seen Chapaev referred to as Vasily Chapaev and others have said that is incorrect.)

7. I think you are right about Pugachev. There are lots of mistakes made about which ships were operating in which places. The fact is that the Soviets almost never had two ships in the same fleet (Sovtorgflot, fishing fleet, Navy, KasPar, Sovtanker) operating with duplicate names.

8. Be careful about tons. Some sources report gross registered tonnage, others report displacement (rarely) and many report deadweight tonnage. If you see a Russion source with tonnage followed only by the letter "t" is typically means deadweight tonnage. They will usually use the abbreviation GRT (in Cyrillic) for gross registered tonnage. Any time you see something reported in metric tonnes, you can be sure it is displacement or deadweight tonnage and NOT gross registered tonnage. GRT is a measure of volume, not weight. One GRT ton = 100 cubic feet.

9. Lepse is another mystery. Very frustrating. The Starke-Schell registers say this: "Lchd. 1934, still incomplete when scuttled as a blockship 12 Oct 1942 in the mouth of the Khopi River". In general I have found this source to be good. I have not worried much about sorting this out because it really doesn't fall within the scope of my book. You may be right. Where does your information come from?

I will contact you next time in Germany.

Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Oct 2005 16:58

Yes, I also have the problems with the transliteration of Russian names. As for the cities and towns - just type all possible variants in Google: the most wide spread variant should be the most correct, probably.

mjbollinger wrote:
Some sources say 02.01.42 and others say 02.05.42. I've seen both reported.

Misprint? Because "Nogin" was sunk on 2 or 5 January 1942 (the first data is yours, the second - mine)

mjbollinger wrote:
I have also seen these reports about Chapaev -- ships by this name has always confused me and many others. There were three operating with this name in the Black Sea

About the third "Chapaev" (correct name "Vasilii Chapaev", ChGMP, 2690 brt - cargo capacity in metric tonns!): the ship was torpedoed by German torpedo-bomber on 23.03.1942 (43°45' 33°25', 40 miles from Kherson lighthouse) during the transportation of cargos and soldiers. The torpedo destroyed the rear of the ship, 102 men were lost (the rest were saved by destroyer "Shaumyan", which escorted the ship). The ship`s commissar I. Sokalsky organized the rescue operation from the settled down "Vasilii Chapaev", saved many people and stayed on ship.

Tonnage for "Chapaev" and other ships of that type: 4740 t fully loaded (displacement in metric tonns = full weight), 3000 t deadweight tonnage (cargo-carrying capacity in metric tonns = weight of cargos).
AFAIK many Russian sources used t (metric tonns = weight) and the following words "Водоизмещение" (full maximal weight of the ship in metric tonns) and "Грузоподъемность" (tonnage in metric tonns = maximal cargo-carrying capacity in metric tonns).

The short info and picture of "Chapaev" ("Tsurupa" type, dry cargo ships): http://www.techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/1976_10.htm (on Russian, I could find in Internet only this link with the image of the ship)

As for "Lepse". In this case I don`t have a good source, but in one-two Internet sites I found a mention that unfinished by Kherson Shipyard "Lepse" was sunk by the crew in Kherson to prevent the capture by Germans in 1941 (one site I already mention - about the dangerous condition of "Lepse" at the moment, full of nuclear waste, so try to find the short history of the ship somewhere there). Well, lets assume this, despite that the sources are about the nuclear danger mainly, not about the full history of "Lepse". But there is a real historical fact - Kherson was captured by German Army on 19 August 1941. So the ship should be sunk by the crew only before 19 August 1941, that`s for sure! On 18 August 1941 several ships were sunk and exploded in Kherson to prevent their capture, including quite big "Volochaevka" (3817 brutto-tonns, brt), for example. On 12 October 1942 (according to your sources) the ship couldn`t be sink by Soviets as Kherson was already occupied by Germans for a long time (by the way, Kherson was liberated only 13 March 1944), but Germans shouldn`t do this - it was better for them to complete it as good transport ship (but that was hard as almost all shipayrd facilities were exploded by Soviet Army to prevent the German capture) or to use it as immovable barge or tanker, for example. Also, the Soviet pioneers had time (several days) to destroy all ships and facilities in Kherson before Germans came, so unfinished (or almost completed) "Lepse" should be sink also. Am I right?

Regards, BIGpanzer

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Post by BIGpanzer » 11 Oct 2005 18:03

Hi, Marty!
I found yesterday some info about the Corporate Kamchatka Company (Akcionernoe Kamchatskoe Obshestvo, AKO - fishing and crabbing company) - it used the ship "Chapaev" (the name, we discussed above; but that was the ship not of "Tsurupa" type, which operated at Black Sea).

So "Chapaev" from AKO was used for transportation of fuel, workers and tins for fishing and crabbing vessels and Kamchatka fish-packing factories during WWII. "Chapaev" was one of the best transport ships of the Ministry (People`s Comissariat) of Fish Industry during WWII. "Chapaev" came to San-Francisco in January 1943 for reequipment and repair. Not very powerful US shipyard "Harley Marine Works" in San-Francisco couldn`t repair the ship for 35 days as Soviets asked and "Chapaev" stayed at San-Francisco for 5.5 months. American engineers could give the guarantee for ship`s equipment only for 1-2 years which surprised the Soviet sailors a lot as the main Soviet shipyards gave 5 years guarantee usually. During his stay at San-Francisco "Chapaev" was armed with 76mm gun and 2x20mm AA örlikon guns, also the Soviet crewmembers were trained at the Training Centre of US Marine Infantry.
On 18 August-3 September 1945 this "Chapaev" was used indeed in Soviet landing operation at Kuril Islands, transporting marine infantry, tanks and ammunition. The same did tanker "Maxim Gorkii" I`ve mentioned above, transports "Itelmen" and "Kokkinaki" (all four were from AKO). This four ships (in the whole landing operation 64 vessels were used) transported 6704 t of military cargos and 3363 marine infantrymen.


Regards, BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 13 Oct 2005 18:19

Marty, do you know some more info about one of the most widespread Soviet transport ships of WWII period - medium timber ship of “Tovarish Krasin” type (my post from 27 July). Those ships (5280 t) were built in 24 copies (7 series) by Baltic and Sevastopol shipyards in 1925-1934.

Many ships of that type were mobilized as military transports during WWII (Baltic Sea, Barents Sea, Pacific Ocean), many of them were used in convoys from USA San Francisko and Seattle to Soviet Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. “Mironych” was used till late 1950s at Pacific Ocean, “Vancetti” made navigations till 1975.
The info I have about their losses:
1. “Krasny partisan” dissapeared on 26 January 1943 at Barents Sea during the navigation to USA. Probably, it was sunk by German bombers or submarine “U-255”. 51 men were lost.
2. “Krestyanin” was sunk on 01 August 1942 at Barents Sea (torpedoed by “U-601”). 38 men on two lifeboats could reach the shore, 7 men were lost.
3. “Kuibyshev” was sunk on 24 August 1942 at Kara Sea (also torpedoed by “U-601”). All crew was lost.
4. “Uritsky” was sunk also on 24 August 1942 at Kara Sea. It was torpedoed by submarine ("U-601" again?)
5. “Volodarsky” was sunk, no more info.
6. “Mikoyan” was sunk on 3 October 1942 at Indian Ocean during the cargo transportation from British colonies to Persian Gulf region. Torpedoed by Japanese submarine “I-162”. The crew on lifeboats could reach Indian shore. All survived and returned back to USSR.
7. “Sukhona” was sunk on 13 September 1942 at Greenland Sea (PQ-18 convoy) by German torpedo-bombers. Before this the crew of "Sukhona" could save sailors from the ship "Stalingrad", also destroyed by German bombs.
8. “Tovarish Stalin” and “Mikhail Frunze” were damaged by bombs and used as non-self-propelled fuelers by North navy till the end of the war.
9. “Tovarish Krasin” was sunk by old WWII mine at Baltic Sea in 1946.

Almost all ships of that type, participated in North convoys, were armed with 76,2mm universal cannon against bombers and submarines, several AA MGs of Örlikon type and even with parachute flares with steel rope against diving bombers.

As I`ve written - 24 ships were built, but I have the info only about near 10. Do you know the names of all ships of that type and some short info about them?

Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer

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Post by mjbollinger » 13 Oct 2005 21:17

Hello BIGPanzer,

Sorry I have been absent. Traveling a lot.

I've reviewed the source you listed (http://www.techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/1976_10.htm). It is a good article but it contains, I think, a number of sloppy mistakes. In particular, it often confuses ship names. So while it has good information, be careful not to rely upon it alone. Igor Spassky's books are better sources of data on this topic.

Here is my list of the timber ships you requested. I count 23, not 24.

Series I (5 ships): Tovarisch Krasin, Tovarisch Stalin, Mikhail Tomskii (Mironich), Grigorii Zinovev (Krasnii Partizan) -- all from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic, and Mikhail Frunze from Sevastopol Marine Works. (People often forget that last one here)

Series II (4 ships): Robachii, Iskra, Pravda and Krestyanin, all from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic

Series III (4 ships): Sakko, Vanzetti, Uritskii and Volodarskii, all from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic

Series IV: (4 ships) Mikoyan, Kuibishev, Molotov, Bukharin (Aleksandr Pushkin), all from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic

Series V (2 ships): Kingisepp, Khruschev, both from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic

Series V follow-on (2 ships): Sukhona (Kara), Kotelshik Talankin (Pinega), both from Ordzhonikidze/Baltic

Series VI (2 ships): Vaga, Vychegda, both started in Ordzhonikidze/Baltic but completed in 1952 in Wismar

Now there is much confusion about these ships. Many people forget Mikhail Frunze, the odd ship built in Sevastopol. Also, some sources indicate that Sukhona and Kara are two different ships, but I cannot find evidence of that, and the idea that Sukhona was renamed Kara fits the data better. Some other sources say Vaga was also renamed Kara at one stage. Also, some sources identify a ship in Series VI called Belorussia but I can't find any evidence of it. Personally, I think the series VI ships were at one point named Kara and Belorussia. When Sukhona's name was no longer available (a ship overseas had recently been acquired and given that name) they advanced the sequence and took the name Kara for it. And the name Belorussia was no longer available after another ship overseas was acquired with that name so they changed the next ship's name, perhaps to Vychegda. Just a theory. Happy to hear contrary evidence.

As for losses, we have some differences in our data.

Krasny Partisan: Torpedoed by U.255 72.30N-18E Barents Sea 29.01.43
Krestyanin: Torpedoed by U.601 in Barents Sea 01.08.42
Kuibishev: Torpedoed by U.601 in Kara Sea 24.08.42
Uritskii: Survived the war and removed from operations in 1957
Volodarskii: converted to floating workshop in 1941 and removed from roster in 1965
Mikoyan: Torpedoed I-162 19N 85E in Bay of Bengal 03.10.42
Tovarisch Stalin: returned to merchant service in 1945 and written off in 1954
Tovarisch Krasin: mined and sunk in Gulf of Riga 25.06.46

Sukhona is a difficult case. My best guess is that it was renamed Kara in 1936, survived war and broken up in Hamburg in 1967. (I do not believe that Kara was a distinct ship from Sukhona in the timber carrier series -- but I could be wrong). The Sukhona that was sunk as you describe is the ex Maindy Dene built in 1918 and acquired in 1934.


Marty

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Post by BIGpanzer » 03 Dec 2005 18:43

Hello, mjbollinger!
Very sorry for the great delay, but I really had (and still have) a huge amount of work :|

As for the one of the most widespread Soviet transport ships of WWII period - medium timber ships of “Tovarisch Krasin” type. They were also the first Russian-built ocean steamers after the Russian revolution of 1917. Some sources report 23 ships were built, another - 24. I think the problem is again in the duplication of the ship names.

My sources (combination from several articles and Internet sites):

Series I (1927): "Tovarisch Krasin", "Tovarisch Stalin", "Mironych", "Krasny partizan" - the first two were launched on 25 October, 1925. In November 1925 the second two were launched (all were produced by Baltic Shipyard). In August-September 1927 all new timber ships of the I series were accepted by Sovtorgflot (Soviet mercantile fleet). As for the "Mikhail Frunze" - you are, probably, right - many sources forget about that ship. But I found the info that Sevastopol Shipyard produced medium timber ship(s) only in 1932-1934. So it seems a little bit strange that "Mikhail Frunze" was built 7-9 years later than other ships of the I series during the period when improved series already appeared. On another hand I found more knowledgeable mentions that “Mikhail Frunze” was the first ship after Russian revolution, was launched by Sevastopol Marine Works in 1925 (14th November) and it was accepted by Sovtorgflot in 1928. In that case our both data are completely correct.

Series II (1928): "Rabochy" (not Robachii as you wrote), "Krestyanin", "Iskra", "Pravda" (indeed were produced by Baltic Shipyard). Some data from our sources are completely coincided, that’s great. The ships from II series had the longer hull and some new elements in construction.

Series III (1928): "Sakko", "Vancetti", "Uritsky", "Volodarsky" - the same info as yours.

Series IV (1929): the same info (but my Russian colleagues think that the name "Kuibyshev" is more correct than "Kuibishev").
"Alexander Pushkin" was reequipped into mine-layer in October-November 1939 and accepted by the North Navy 07.12.1939 as mine-layer "Pushkin" (ZM-107). Participated in the Winter war. 10.11.1940 disarmed and returned back to SGMP (North State Shipping Company). 02.07.1941 the ship was mobilized again as mine-layer (North Navy).
5320 t, 91.3x13.2x2.8 m, 950 hp steam engine, 8.2 knots, armament 2x100+2x45+2x7.62mm.

http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/minelayers/pic/pushkin.jpg

Series V (1931): the same info also.

Timber ships of III-V series were quite improved versions. They had pillars instead masts, another construction of cargo hatches, more powerful steam-engine (950 hp instead of 900 hp). Also their dimensions and tonnage were differing.

Series V-bis (1933-1934): I found the same info, but indeed several sources report that "Sukhona" and "Kara" were the different ships of the same series. Probably, this is the source of the different data of produced ships - 23 or 24, as you’ve already mentioned. Another possibility is that "Sukhona" and "Kara" were the same ship, which had different names during the service.

For example, a lot of sources about North convoys mention transport “Sukhona” (3124 brutto-tonnes), which got the damage in the board during the PQ-14 convoy ice navigation (12 April 1942), was repaired by the crew and was towed by another Soviet transport “Sretensk” to the nearest (234 miles) port of North Iceland. Later “Sukhona” participated in PQ-18 convoy from Reykjavik to USSR, was torpedoed (13 September 1942, Greenland Sea) and sunk NW of Bear Island in approximate position 76N 10E by German torpedo-bombers (more than 100 torpedo-bombers from I/KG 26 and III/KG 26 attacked PQ-18 ) together with 4 another transport ships and British convoy ship. PQ-18 was from Reykjavik to North Russia. “Sukhona” had originally come from Sunderland and Leith, with general cargo.

But indeed that “Sukhona” was not the medium timber ship of the describing type, but ex. “Maindy Dene” as you`ve written in your post! The ship was built by “Craig, Taylor & Co Ltd”, Stockton (ship number 191), and completed in April 1918. It was later named “Lady Brenda” and was acquired by the Soviet Union in 1934. Specifications: 3124 grt, 1819 nrt, 5020 dwt, registered length 325.1 feet, breadth 48.2 feet, registered depth 22.2 feet, draught 20.66 feet, had a triple expansion engine of 294 hp and a service speed of about 9 knots. The signal letters were UPCW.
So it is possible to mistake which type the described “Sukhona” belongs to if base on the tonnage data as the deadweight was quite similar between “Maindy Dene” (5020 t) and “Tovarisch Krasin” type (5280 t).


The same sources mention transport “Kara”, which stayed at Dikson port (Kara Sea) with 250 t of explosives and other cargos (the ship came from Arkhangelsk) during the quite unsuccessful attack of Dikson by German battleship “Admiral Scheer”, 27 August 1942 (see my post from 31 July here). Fortunately, the observers from “Admiral Scheer” didn`t see the heavy loaded “Kara” at first. But during the port bombardment the unarmed “Kara” with explosives on board was lightly damaged by battleship artillery fire, but could move into safety area under the smoke cover. I think that this “Kara” was the ship of “Tovarisch Krasin” type indeed.

Series VI (1933-1934): the same info that yours (names of the ships). But it seems a little bit strange for me that according to your info those ships were completed only in 1952 in Wismar, nevertheless were started by Baltic Shipyard before WWII. According to my sources Baltic Shipyard produced the timber ships of that type only in 1925-1934, so if shipyard produced them till 1941 - the reason of delay is obvious (German-Soviet war began), but 1934? - why did unfinished ships (according to your info) wait 18 years (!)? Why did their completion stand over for the so long period of time? And why did already quite obsolete construction for 1950s need to be completed? Also why Wismar, not Baltic Shipyard? Several Internet sites report that they were completed in 1934.
The full list of ships, were produced by Baltic Shipyard (from the official site of this shipyard): http://www.bz.ru/h602r.html
(it is written that even 9 ships of V6(?) series were produced in 1933-1936....)

What I know for sure that steamer “Vychegda” participated in 1952 very active in the rescue operations at Severo-Kurilsk town after big earthquake and tsunami, received the order in the open sea to go to the port and rescue the population of the town. The ship evacuated 818 civilians to Petropavlovsk.

Timber ships of series V-bis and VI were the best preWWII Soviet timber ships: they were equipped with powerful steam-winches (instead of electric winches), much more improved engine (steam-engine + turbine, 1200 hp) and had better speed (9.8 knots instead 9).

As for the losses of the ships of that type:
1. “Krasny partizan” - almost the same info as yours. But many sources mention that the radio connection with the single ship disappeared on 26 January 1943 during the way from Murmansk to USA via Iceland. The last message from the ship was about the attack of German torpedo-bombers near Medvezhy Island. So the exact reason of its death is unknown - U-255 (which was at the same date in the same area) or torpedo-bombers. All crew (51 men) was lost. Ship transported timber to Iceland and could be easily sunk by bomb or torpedo hit into the middle part (to fight a strong fire during the stormy weather was almost impossible, also all ship-damage control equipment located in the middle part of the hull).
2. “Krestyanin” - completely the same info as yours (the ship with coal on board was torpedoed by U-601, 1 August 1942, Barents Sea, near Novaya Zemlya). 38 men on two lifeboats could reach the shore, 7 men (including 2 passengers) were lost.
3. “Kuibyshev” - completely the same info. The ship was sunk on 24 August 1942 at Kara Sea near Dikson (also torpedoed by “U-601”) during the navigation from Arkhangelsk to Dikson. All crew was lost.
4. If “Uritsky” timber ship survived the war according to your info and was scrapped only in 1957, could you, please, provide me with the info about the type of “Uritsky”, which was indeed torpedoed at Kara Sea on 24 August 1942?
5. If “Volodarsky” ship of the described type was converted to floating workshop in 1941 and removed from roster only in 1965 according to your info, could you, please, provide me with the info about sink “Volodarsky” (such name is in the full list of lost Soviet merchant sea ships during WWII)?
6. “Mikoyan” - completely the same info. The ship (armed with 1 cannon and 4 heavy MGs) was sunk on 3 October 1942 at Indian Ocean (Bay of Bengal) during the cargo transportation from British colonies to Persian Gulf region (navigation Calcutta - Karachi in that case). Torpedoed by Japanese submarine “I-162”. The ship sank despite the attempts of the crew to remove water by water-pomps (1st hold was completely destroyed). The crew on lifeboats could reach Indian shore. All sailors survived and returned back to USSR through India, Iran and Iraq.
7. “Sukhona” - see the info above. That was indeed the ship of another type.
8. “Tovarish Stalin” and “Mikhail Frunze” were damaged by bombs and used as non-self-propelled fuelers by North navy till the end of the war. According to your info the first one was returned to merchant service in 1945. Very possible!
9. “Tovarish Krasin” was sunk by old WWII mine at Baltic Sea in 1946 (Gulf of Riga, 25 June) - the same info as yours.

Generally, almost all ships of that type were mobilized as military transports during WWII (Baltic Sea, Barents Sea, Pacific Ocean), many of them were used in convoys from USA San Francisko and Seattle to Soviet Murmansk and Arkhangelsk.
Ships, participated in North convoys, were armed with 76,2mm universal cannon against bombers and submarines, several AA MGs of Örlicon type and even parachute flares with steel rope against diving bombers.


Best regards, BIGpanzer

Photo of the Soviet medium timber ship of "Tovarisch Krasin" type (23 or 24 copies, 1925-1934)
is from http://www.morvesti.ru/tst/books/steam/img/141.jpg

This is "Volodarsky" (series III)
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Post by BIGpanzer » 03 Dec 2005 19:23

Marty, could you please provide me with your info about Soviet transport ships with ice belt of "Anadyr" type (my post from 28 July in this thread about their service during WWII, but not so many info).
10 were built in 5 series in 1929-1932:
"Anadyr", "Smolensk", "Stalingrad", "Sakhalin", "Sever", "Suchan", "Sverdlovsk", "Saratov", "Krasnaya Gazeta", "Khabarovsk".


Best regards, BIGpanzer

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Post by mjbollinger » 06 Dec 2005 02:31

Sorry for my delay. Only a brief time now to respond. More later. Quick response

1. Not sure why some ships were delayed after 1935 and not completed until 1952. I suspect the delay from 1935 to 1941 was caused by the shift in construction from merchant ships to warships. Also, 1935 was the peak year for acquisition of used ships overseas, so the demand for new merchant ships from Soviet yards may have declined.

2. I have no information on URITSKII being sunk in 1942. What is the source of your information? I checked the MMF files as well as the official archive of all ships lost in WWI (from Naval Ministry in 1959) and could find no reference.

3. The VOLODARSKII in the MMF list of victims appers to be a tug of only 100 tons. Here is the entry:

VOLODARSKY (ВОЛОДАРСКИЙ)
A tug. steamship, 100 GRT, Azov State Sea Shipping Company. Date and a place of destruction - 27.10.41, port Kerch. Was lost as a result of a strike of fascist aircraft. Data on victims not available.

You are right about my spelling. I always type Рабочий incorrectly no matter how much I try. Also, a lot of this I do from memory and I make mistakes.

I will provide data on ANADYR series in a few days.

Best regards

Marty

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