Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

[BIGpanzer]

Hi, Marty!

MB wrote:
Thanks. I have all of the Berezhnoi books as well as the two Admiraly shipyard volumes you mention. None of these describe the auxiliary ships of the Soviet fleet after 1945.

I mentioned two Admiralty shipyard volumes as "must have" books about Russian/Soviet ships, not as the source about auxiliary vessels.
The good reference books about auxiliary ships and paramilitary/mobilized ships of Soviet Navy before 1945 are the following: A. Golubev "Auxiliary ships and vessels of the Navy of USSR 1941-1945", in 2 parts (especially) and S. Berezhnoi "Warships and auxiliary ships of the Navy of USSR 1927-1945". As for postWWII - yes, this is more difficult in my opinion also, I know only reference books by Berezhnoi (and based on his info) abour Soviet navy of 1980-1990 which gives info/photos of depot ships, tankers and other auxiliaries.

Hi, Klaus!

kgvm wrote:
Of course, a rebuilding is a possibiklity. If so, ithe picture can show the "Dezhnev" of WW II.

The colour picture shows icebreaking steamer "Dezhnev" (patrol ship SKR-19) during combat with battleship "Admiral Scheer" in Dikson port, 27.08.1942. The ship was copied completelly from the original photo of "Dezhnev" from 1942, just compare
http://ef.1939-1945.net/scans/b006_002.jpg
http://hobby.nikolaev.com.ua/foto/pictures/dejnev.jpg
The second photo you've mentioned can show icebreaking ship "Dezhnev" after rebuilding/modernization after WWII.

Regards, BP

P.S. I found some info about convoy "AB-15", the main aim of which was to transfer powerful icebreakers "I. Stalin" and "Severny Veter" (the last one was US Lend-Lease) from Arctic (Kara Sea) to the White Sea in November 1944. As the submarine danger against icebreakers necessary for guiding of North convoys were very high, escort ships - patrol ship SKR-19 (icebreaking ship "Dezhnev") and mine-layer "EM-90" (hydrographic ship "Murman") had the order to cover the icebreakers from possible torpedos by their hulls until the convoy meet the main escort forces consisting of destroyers, mine-sweepers and patrol boats; both escort ships performed run just 6 cables from icebreakers.

By the way, does anybody have this book ("The polar convoys 1941-1945", St. Petersburg, 1999)? I have "The Russian convoys 1941-1945" by P. Kemp

[mjbollinger]

Thanks, BP. I have all of those books -- about 100 in total on Soviet merchant and naval ships. None cover auxiliaries after WWII. THe best I can find in that case is the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency report for 1963, though is too far after the immediate post-war period to be useful.

MB

[BIGpanzer]

Hi, Marty! Yes, I don't know the reference books about Soviet auxiliary ships of just postWWII-period also (only about WWII and modern). I believe that all necessary info (at least, about Soviet-built auxiliary ships) is in the main Russian journal about shipbuilding - "Sudostroenie" (monthly, from around 1940 I guess)
http://www.crist.ru/issues/sudostroenie

By the way, I am searching the following very useful articles from this Russian journal "Sudostroenie"/"Shipbuilding":
1. Smirnov K.D. Icebreaker "Molotov" during the Great Patriotic war // 2000. No.4.
2. Afonin N.N. The first timber ships of Baltic shipyard // 2006. No.3.

Regards, BP

P.S. As for timber ships of Baltic shipyard:

MB wrote: Sukhona is a difficult case. My best guess is that it was renamed Kara in 1936, survived war and broken up in Hamburg in 1967. (I do not believe that Kara was a distinct ship from Sukhona in the timber carrier series -- but I could be wrong)

Sorry, Marty, but you are wrong here - there list of laid down ship numbers is known for Baltic shipyard No.189/Ordzhonikidze (as well as for other shipyards), and "Sukhona" had the number 221, "Kara" had the number 223. Those were two differ steamers, to say more, most probably "Sukhona" was medium timber carrier of V-bis series whereas "Kara" represented the ships of VI-series. "Kara" (stayed in Dikson during the famous combat between "Dezhnev"/SKR-19 and "Admiral Scheer") was scrapped 11.1967 indeed.

[BIGpanzer]

Some submarine statistics (Arctic area) - German submarines sank 21 Soviet transport ships there (from total 32 lost), + 4 tugs and 1 hydrographic vessel [1 - in 1941, 9 - in 1942, 6 - in 1943, 4 - in 1944, 1 - in 1945]. Also German submarines sank 49 allied transports from 93 lost in north convoys. The only one case of successful self-defense of Soviet transport against submarine is known - when Soviet timber ship "Vanzetti" from DGMP (performed run from Arkhangelsk to Vladivostok via Iceland/NewYork as single ship) avoided two torpedos by manoeuvring, sent radiomessage about enemy attack on English/Russian and attacked U-553 by artillery fire 5 January 1943 off Bear Is. Until now the exact fate of U-553 is unknown - the last unclear radiomessage from U-Boot was received on 20 January - but, probably, those damages became too heavy for her - according to Soviet captain's report they opened fire from left heavy MG (Oerlikon - BP) with tracers, artillerymen of stern gun saw the target but the first shell exploded far away behind the submarine which was close to the ship [5 cables], the second hit the base of deck house directly and it was visible very clearly as well as the name U-553, the third shell hit the hull near the deck gun, forth jammed the steamer's gun and submarine dived during that gun problem, three more shells were fired on the diving place soon).
"Vanzetti" (Soviet-built medium timber ship of III series, captain V. Verond) was armed with one 3' gun and two Oerlikons, which were installed in San Francisco after incident in January 1942 [Japanese aircraft attacked Soviet steamer with MG fire and bombs, then it was arrested by Japanese mine-sweeper and patrol ship for several days].

Regards, BP

[mjbollinger]

BP,

Are you sure Sukhona was completed? I agree it was laid down. I just can't find any reference to it afterwards.

Do you have a copy of the Afonin article? Is it available on-line? I checked the web site but it didn't appear one could access the article online.

Thanks

Marty

[BIGpanzer]

Something more about self-defense of Soviet transport ships in the north theatre.

According to the modern data they shot down at least 9 German bombers during the war in Arctic - diesel ship "Sevzaples" (one Ju-88 - attack near Murmansk, during convoy PQ-12), diesel ship "Stary bolshevik" (one Ju-88 + one damaged both on 27.05.1942, during massive air attacks against PQ-16 when the ship was heavily damaged by air bomb), steamer "Arkos" (no shot down but one damaged during the same convoy PQ-16, the ship avoided 5 dropped torpedos and repulsed the attacks of 11 bombers), tanker "Donbass" (two He-111 both 04.07.1942 + one Ju-88 damaged by rescued US sailors managed the nose gun, during convoy run PQ-17), cargo ship "Petrovsky" (one bomber Ju-88/He-111+ one unconfirmed, during convoy PQ-18), cargo ship "Tbilisi" (two bombers Ju-88/He-111, during convoy PQ-18), cargo ship "Komiles" (one bomber Ju-88/He-111+ one unconfirmed, during convoy PQ-18), steamer "A. Marty" (one Ju-88 + one damaged, during single run from UK to Murmansk 17.02.1943).

As for submarines - except "Vanzetti" which heavily damaged U-553, the steamer "Belomorkanal" attacked enemy submarine (U-255, 17.08.1942 off Spitsbergen) by fire from 4' gun and MGs also depth charges were dropped as well as attempt to ram the submarine was made, but U-255 dived and wasn't damaged.

Regards, BP

P.S.

Marty wrote:
Do you have a copy of the Afonin article? Is it available on-line? I checked the web site but it didn't appear one could access the article online.

No, Marty, I wrote that I tried to find this very useful article but I have no ideas (except to try to order the corresponding journal volume) how to do this.

Marty wrote:
Are you sure Sukhona was completed? I agree it was laid down. I just can't find any reference to it afterwards.

According to several sources it seems to be that "Sukhona" was completed (which is in agreement with the known fact that the next medium timber ships - "Kotel'shchik Talankin" and "Kara" were completed), but as for the reliable info about it afterwards, yes, this is hard, I can't find.

[BIGpanzer]

The fates of medium timber ships (“Tovarishch Krasin” and the following improved series) according to Miramar Ship Database. Those were the first Soviet steamers, they were built by Baltic shipyard (except “Mikhail Frunze” which was built by Sevastopol shipyard). We’ve discussed their participation in WWII (Arctic and Pacific runs) a lot here.

I series (“Tovarishch Krasin”-type, 2418 brt, built in 1925-1927):
1. “Tovarishch Krasin” (“Altay” since 1945) – mined Gulf of Riga 25.06.1946.
2. “Tovarishch Stalin” – hulked in 1941, was in use after the war and scrapped in 1960s.
3. “Mikhail Tomsky” (“Mironych” since 1936) – deleted in 1965
4. “Grigory Zinovev” (“Krasny partizan” since 1933) – torpedoed by submarine 29.01.1943 in the point 72.30N/18.00E
5. “Mikhail Frunze” – deleted in 1955
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f464_1.jpg (note electric cargo winches and very high bulwarks for timber transportation)
http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/img/71.jpg

II series (“Rabochy”-type, 2513 brt, built in 1927-1928):
1. “Rabochy” – crushed in ice Laptev Sea 23.01.1938
2. “Krestyanin” – torpedoed by submarine 01.08.1942 in the point 71.08N/52.19E
3. “Iskra” – wrecked near Kuril Islands late 1940s (FESCO mentions the year 1947)
4. “Pravda” – deleted in 1970 (FESCO mentions the year 1964)
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f588_1.jpg (those ships were 5.2 m longer than ships of I series)
http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/img/74.jpg ("Rabochy" and "Krestyanin" during building, Baltic shipyard)

III series (“Sacco”-type, 2363 brt, built in 1927-1928):
1. “Sacco” – scrapped 05.1969
2. “Vanzetti” – scrapped 04.1975
3. “Uritsky” – deleted in 1956 (FESCO mentions the year 1958)
4. “Volodarsky” – deleted in 1966
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f741_2.jpg (timber ships of III-V series had columns instead of masts, differ construction of hold cargo hatches and 950 hp steam engine)

IV series (“Kuibyshev”-type, 2332 brt, built in 1928-1930):
1. “Kuibyshev” – torpedoed by submarine 24.08.1943 in the point 73.52N/77.40E
2. “Mikoyan” – torpedoed by submarine 03.10.1942 in the point 19.24N/85.24E
3. “Molotov” – collision 23.03.1959 in the point 53.52N/7.46E
4. “Bukharin” (“Aleksandr Pushkin” since 1937) – foundered in the Indian Ocean in 1950s
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f476_1.jpg

V series (“Kingisepp”-type, 2325 brt, built in 1931-1933):
1. “Kingisepp” – scrapped in 1976 (FESCO mentions the year 1965)
2. “Khrushchev” (what is the first name?) – no info
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f351_1.jpg

V-bis series (2325 brt, built in 1933-1936):
1. “Sukhona“ – no info
2. ”Pinega” (laid down as “Kotelshchik Talankin”) – deleted in 1958 (FESCO mentions the year 1959)
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f568_1.jpg (the best medium timber ships were of V-bis and VI-series, equipped with powerful steam cargo winches, 1200 hp steam turbine provided the increased speed [around 10 knots instead of 8.2-9])

VI-series (“Kara”-type, 2325 brt, built in 1936):
1. “Kara” – scrapped 11.1967
2. “Vychegda” – no info.
3. “Vaga” (?) – no info
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f337_1.jpg

Regards, BP

P.S.
http://www.bz.ru/ru/history-hist_ship.html
According to the official site of Baltic shipyard nine timber ships of V-bis and VI-series were built in 1933-1936, but other sources mention four-five only.

[kgvm]

And as (almost) always some links:
http://www.poseidon-schiffahrts-archiv. ... urg-2.html (Elton of 1919 as German Insterburg)
http://www.poseidon-schiffahrts-archiv. ... LYT-1.html (Atis Kronvalds of 1901 as Friedrich Carl)

Regards
Klaus Günther

[BIGpanzer]

As we are talking about WWII - I found short info about the armament installed on some of those medium timber ships (data for the beginning of 1942):
"Tovarishch Krasin" (North Sea Steamship Company, SMP) - one machine-gun, 27 civil crewmembers + 9 men of armed guard.
"Mironych" (SMP) - one 3' gun and four machine-guns, 48 civil crewmembers + 8 men of armed guard.
"Sakko" (SMP) - one 45mm gun and ten machine-guns, 37 civil crewmembers + 9 men of armed guard.
"Vanzetti" (Far East State Sea Steamship Company, DGMP) - one 3' gun and eight machine-guns, 38 civil crewmembers + 6 men of armed guard.
"Uritsky" (DGMP) - one 3' gun and seven machine-guns, 33 civil crewmembers + 9 men of armed guard.
"Kara" (Murmansk State Sea Steamship Company, MGMP) - one 3' gun and ten machine-guns, 32 civil crewmembers + 9 men of armed guard.

"Aleksandr Pushkin" (SMP) was reequipped into mine-layer "Pushkin" of North Navy (since 07.12.1939), participated in the Soviet-Finnish war (installed 100 mines to the north/north-east from Petsamo 03.01.1940), then the steamer was disarmed and returned back to SMP (since 10.11.1940), mobilized again 02.07.1941 - mine blockship "Pushkin" (No. 107) belonged to mine-sweeping/mine-laying squadron of North Navy.
Armament during the Winter war - two machine-guns.
Armament since 07.1941 - two 100mm guns, two 45mm guns and two 7.62mm machine-guns.

[mjbollinger]

Thanks. Here is some info on Vychegda and Vaga. It is very limited:

VYCHEGDA
1938 Launched as VYCHEGDA
1950 Delivered to Wismar for completion 08.06.50
1952 Completed as VYCHEGDA (USSR) 28.01.52
1964 Still in Maritme Register of the Soviet Union

VAGA
1938 Launched as VAGA
1950 Delivered to Wismar for completion 04.05.50
1952 Completed as VAGA (USSR) 31.01.52
1964 Still in maritime Register of the Soviet Union

MB

[BIGpanzer]

Thanks, Marty, yes, it is possible that the last medium timber ships of VI-series were completed after the war (I also guess that they were a little bit differ from the preWWII "Kara" of the same series). I am wondering why Miramar Ship Index doesn't mention "Vychegda" and "Vaga" at all?

Do you know additional details about loss of "Tovarishch Krasin" ("Altay" since 1945)? I only know that famous steamer (the first merchant ship built in USSR) hit the unswept mine after the war, 25.06.1946 in the Baltic Sea (Gulf of Riga).

The only war loss among the medium timber ships of I series was "Krasny partizan" (others, except "Tovarishch Krasin", see above) survived the war and were in use till 1950s-1960s.

"Krasny partizan" (captain A.F. Belov) from DGMP, which participated in transportation of British rubber from Malaya to USSR since August 1941, was, most probably, sunk by German submarine U-255 29.01.1943 (73.45N, 17.30E). That timber ship performed run Vladivostok-USA in the middle 1942, took there cargos and arrived to Murmansk via the North Sea Route. "Krasny partizan" left Murmansk after loading and repair (screw shaft was damaged by close explosions of bombs during massive air raids against Murmansk 01.-09.01.1943) on 23 January, and started the run to USA via Iceland as independent ship (British stopped to send the convoys that time bacause of high aircraft/submarine danger and it was decided to send independent ships instead).
"Krasny partizan" was attacked several times by enemy bombers off Is. Bear (Medvezhy), its last radiomessage from 26 January was unclear but it mentioned that "ship is burning and sinking...". So the timber ship could be sunk during those aircraft attacks (unarmed steamer transported timber to Iceland and the crew, probably, couldn't fight a strong fire under enemy attacks and stormy weather) or already heavily damaged, torpedoed after that by U-255 which patrolled this area in Barents Sea that time. All 51 crewmembers were lost. It should be also noted that medium timber ships of that type had all damage control equipment in the middle of the hull (+ inflammable cargo[timber] on the deck and in the holds), so the single bomb or torpedo hit in this part could cause strong fire and be fatal for the "Krasny partizan". U-255 reported about successful attack (one torpedo hit) against Soviet timber ship (identified as freighter of "Mironych"-type) at 05:47, 29.01.1943.

Regards, BP

[BIGpanzer]

Marty, do you know additional details about the loss of "Rabochy" (medium timber ship of II series) - I only know that the steamer was crushed by strong ice and sank in the Laptev Sea, 23.01.1938?
The sister ship "Iskra" (transported coal to Kuril Islands) hit rocks near Kuriles 09.03.1946 during night (00:30 am), stormy snow weather and fog, the steamer was heavily damaged (holes in the left board, flooding of engine compartment and holds) and hit rocks several times because of strong wind and waves. Soviet destroyer and merchant ship received SOS and rescued all crew from the life-boats in several hours. The steamer ran aground by storm, and the special commission concluded later after investigation of the ship that it is impossible to repair it - half-waterlogged, half-broken; so "Iskra" was abandoned on Kuril Islands.

The only war loss of medium timber ships of II series was "Krestyanin" from SGMP (captain A.G. Nikolaev). The steamer performed independent run to Belyushya Bay (Novaya Zemlya) and transported coal for ships, it was torpedoed by U-601 01.08.1942 (at 00:23) in Barents Sea to the west from Mezhdysharskiy Is. (Novaya Zemlya Archipelago); 71.08N, 52.19E. "Krestyanin" sank in 3 min after torpedo hit, but the crew could launch two life-boats and reached Novaya Zemlya; 7 men (including 2 passengers) were lost and 38 men survived.

Regards, BP

[BIGpanzer]

All medium timber ships of III, V, V-bis and VI series survived the war but enemy submarines sank two Soviet steamers of IV series - "Kuibyshev" and "Mikoyan".

"Kuibyshev" (belonged to MGMP, Murmansk State Sea Steamship Company) was torpedoed by German submarine U-601 24.08.1942 (Miramar database mistakes giving the year as 1943) in Kara Sea to the north-west from port Dikson, near White Is. [73.52N, 77.40E]. The same U-Boot (U-601) torpedoed "Krestyanin" (timber ship of II series) three weeks earlier. Timber ship "Kuibyshev" towed small tug "Medvezhonok" and started the run from Arkhangelsk to Dikson 11.08.1942 (in convoy to Matochkin Strait, then as independent ship), all crew (including captain I.V. Tokovenko) was lost. According to the German report "Kuibyshev" was torpedoed at 14:09 and towed harbour tug was sunk by artillery fire (20 rounds) at 14:42.

"Mikoyan" (belonged to DGMP, Far-East State Sea Steamship Company) was torpedoed by Japanese submarine I-162 03.10.1942 in the Bay of Bengal, near north-west coast of India [19.09N, 85.25E]. The steamer (captain I.V. Treskin) participated in cargo transportations from British colonies to the ports of Persian Gulf since 08.1941, that time it performed run Calcutta-Karachi (and then towards Persian Gulf) since 01.10.1942 with bagging as cargo. "Mikoyan" had defensive armament (one gun and four MGs), but Japanese submarine attacked from the periscope depth and torpedo was noticed only 5 m from the ship because of very sunny weather blinded observers on the upper bridge (two observers and second mate were washed overboard by height of water after strong torpedo explosion, but survived). At 14:52 the torpedo hit the right board (between 1st and 2nd holds) of timber ship, which began sinking as pumps had no possibility to bail the large amount of water and damage control party couldn't patch the large hole; nobody replied on SOS sent twice and captain ordered to launch the life-boats at 14:58. At 15:05 crew left the ship (captain, first and military mates, radioman took log-books, maps and other documents), and at 15:09 "Mikoyan" sank. All crew (no losses) reached port Gopalpur (near 30 miles from the point of sinking) on life-boats, as crew contained 7 Indian firemen during those run to Karachi it was easy to orientate when they reached seashore. Local border guards met the men from "Mikoyan" with pleasure and helped them with supplies, and later all crewmembers reached USSR via India, Iran and Iraq.

Regards, BP

[BIGpanzer]

http://spalex.narod.ru/guerra/nebo.html

This source mentions that one journalist found in Arkhangelsk the ex-sailor from timber ship "Nikita Khrushchev" (medium timber ship of V series - BP), P. Pochinkov. He told that in 1936 "Khrushchev" came to Odessa after the run to Italy and got there the secret order - to perform run to Spanish Cartagena and to take there Spanish gold on board (as pay from Republicans for Soviet military aid during the Spanish Civil war). The crew during that run to Spain consisted from volunteers only, and "Khrushchev" delivered trucks and engines for I-16 to port Alikonte, then the ship went to Cartagena for gold. The gold in boxes (510 tons) was loaded and it was ordered to mine the steam boilers of the timber ship to prevent its possible capture by Spanish nationalist warships. In 8 days "Khrushchev" successfully reached Odessa where the gold was unloaded in secrecy (the port was closed that time especially).

The site doubts the full truthfulness of the version that Spanish gold was delivered to USSR on board of that timber ship, but I am thinking about the following: it seems quite strange that Soviet ship had the name "Nikita Khrushchev" in 1936 because Khrushchev was quite unknown person for the country that time, he was IIRC just the first secretary of Moscow Committee of Bolshevik's Party in 1934-1938.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev

Regards, BP

[mjbollinger]

BP,

There appears to have been such a ship:

1934 Completed as KHRUSHCHEV (SGMP)
1936 KHRUSCHEV (BGMP)
1938 Wrecked 16.02.38 off Rybochii Peninsula at Cape Bargoutni

MB