Russian submarines

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Mark V
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Post by Mark V » 20 Nov 2002 19:10

Thanks ISU-152:

Interesting article from the Soviet side. I appreciate your effort.

I am assuming that you accept that most people aboard W.G. were indeed refugees. Even this article almost supports that. :o

I don't make any comment about those 3700 U-boat unteroffiziers and 100 U-boat commanders - just because i believe that you can evaluate the reliability of those numbers yourself...

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 21 Nov 2002 08:34

That was interesting. Thanks ISU.

Do you have any info on Sergei Lisin? IIRC Finns sunk his boat but he was rescued and imprisoned by the Finns during the war. I think he was later given to German hands (?).

ISU-152 wrote: Also worth mentioning is Albrecht Brandi, who sank a mine-sweeper and destroyer


That guy is intersting because he commanded German u-boats in the Gulf of Finland in the summer 1944. His nickname was "Cherry-Brandy". His staff was at Kotka.

ISU-152 wrote:For sinking liner "Wilhelm Gustlow" Alexander Marinesco was honored by being placed in the list of personal enemies of fuhrer and Germany. On the sank liner died 3700 unter-officers – graduates from school of underwater sailing, 100 commanders of submarines, who finished a special course on improvement of commanding submarines with a single engine of Walter system, 22 high nazi party members from East Prussia, several generals and higher officers of SS, SS support battalion of Danzig port with strength of 300 men, and in total over 8000 people (!!!).


That was quite new info to me. Anyway if this is true Marinesco most likely didn't know that when he attacked. It would be interesting to know the exact source of these figures before making any further conclusions like Mark V said. There were German soldiers too, but how many and what were their ranks and numbers? I think we will never know.

Mark V
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Post by Mark V » 21 Nov 2002 22:55

Harri wrote:That was interesting. Thanks ISU.

Do you have any info on Sergei Lisin? IIRC Finns sunk his boat but he was rescued and imprisoned by the Finns during the war. I think he was later given to German hands (?).


Lisin's S-7 was sunk by Finnish sub Vesihiisi in one of the strangest deployments of submarines ever. Finns used their own subs as surface sub-hunters during open water season 1942, equipped with depth-charges !! And they were very effective, alltough their kills (3 Soviet subs - one per every Finn sub) were made by torpedoes and ramming, not by depth-charges.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 22 Nov 2002 00:27

ISU-152,

Thanks for your work. Don`t be modest, all the names were, if not correct german, easy to understand. A bit more difficult were some sub names: К = K-type and М = M-type ?

Some numbers and statements of your source however "argue" with my source (P.O. Ekman: "Sukellusvenesotaa Itämerellä", in finnish or "Havsvargar" in swedish) book "Submarine Warfare at the Baltic Sea"

First difference is about the Marinescos first claim, Helene(1800t) at 14.8-42. Do you know any more details: place or the nationality of the ship? My source verifies that M-96 was patroling at that time, but doesn`t mention of any sinking.
About the passangers of W.G. in prefer to belive what LeoAU wrote. Also there were no personal enemies and no official mouring.
Ivan Travkin, the number 3 at the list of your source, captain of K-52. He claimed five sinkings between 24.2- 8.3.-45: only one can be verified. Another five claims were made between 22.-27.4.-45: no verification of any of them.
Mikhail Kalinin, the number 8, captain of Sh-307. All his six claims (16.10- 3.11-44?) are without verification.

Juha

P.S. Harri, yes Lisin was "loaned" to the germans for a while.

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Soviet subs transferred

Post by varjag » 23 Nov 2002 05:21

There was a small number of Soviet S-type submarines transferred from the Pacific Fleet to the Arctic fleet via Pacific/Panama/Atlantic. One I believe was sunk in the Pacific by a Japanese submarine who thought it was American. There is a published picture of one of these subs entering an inlet, but where; Canada or the U.S.? They must have bunkered at least once,probably twice on that trip. Has anyone got more details as that indeed was a long journey.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 24 Nov 2002 21:54


varjag
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Post by varjag » 25 Nov 2002 13:00

Nice site on the LEMBIT Juha. Would you believe when I first 'met' the LEMBIT? Weyer's Flottentaschenbuch 1937 - but I never forgot her.

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Post by ISU-152 » 25 Nov 2002 15:47

Juha Tompuri wrote:ISU-152,

Thanks for your work. Don`t be modest, all the names were, if not correct german, easy to understand. A bit more difficult were some sub names: К = K-type and М = M-type ?

Some numbers and statements of your source however "argue" with my source (P.O. Ekman: "Sukellusvenesotaa Itämerellä", in finnish or "Havsvargar" in swedish) book "Submarine Warfare at the Baltic Sea"

First difference is about the Marinescos first claim, Helene(1800t) at 14.8-42. Do you know any more details: place or the nationality of the ship? My source verifies that M-96 was patroling at that time, but doesn`t mention of any sinking.
About the passangers of W.G. in prefer to belive what LeoAU wrote. Also there were no personal enemies and no official mouring.
Ivan Travkin, the number 3 at the list of your source, captain of K-52. He claimed five sinkings between 24.2- 8.3.-45: only one can be verified. Another five claims were made between 22.-27.4.-45: no verification of any of them.
Mikhail Kalinin, the number 8, captain of Sh-307. All his six claims (16.10- 3.11-44?) are without verification.

Juha

P.S. Harri, yes Lisin was "loaned" to the germans for a while.


I am sorry for not replying for several days. I had problems getting connected to the Internet. I don't know what caused those numbers I mentioned getting screwed up like that. Anyway, the information I posted is just a food for thought. Also, the sources it is taken from are quite reliable. As for the dubious claims of "sunk" ships by Kalinin and Travkin, I don't know much about the real picture.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 26 Nov 2002 00:25

Varjag,

I first met Lembit in June 1989 at Tallin. At those days there were not very much info about the origin of the sub. My oldest source of Lembit is "Marinkalender 1938" (if some newspapers and magazines are not counted in).
BTW do you know about the secret plans(practise too) of us and estonians for common naval defence before the WWII?

ISU-152, "Food for thought" :) Ain`t that just what the whole thing here is, at it`s best, about. Thanks. Hope to hear from you in the future too.

Juha

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