Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview
-
- Member
- Posts: 7836
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002 16:59
- Location: Europe
Hello Morden
The explanation is simple - in both cases, the strength (and losses) quoted refer to only a part of the Front's forces (as not the whole Front was involved in either of these operations). See note "Parts" written behind the figure. Specifically, they refer to just 6th Army in both operations. That reminds me, I need to get in the general overview sheets for 1943-45, where things like these are clarified.
cheers
The explanation is simple - in both cases, the strength (and losses) quoted refer to only a part of the Front's forces (as not the whole Front was involved in either of these operations). See note "Parts" written behind the figure. Specifically, they refer to just 6th Army in both operations. That reminds me, I need to get in the general overview sheets for 1943-45, where things like these are clarified.
cheers
-
- Member
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 27 Aug 2003 12:29
- Location: Poland
That's not true - in Gallop every army of South-Western Front - 1st Guards, 3rd Guards, 6th (maybe with exception of 5th Tank which had only fraction of Front's forces - three depleted ID) were involvedQvist wrote:Hello Morden
The explanation is simple - in both cases, the strength (and losses) quoted refer to only a part of the Front's forces (as not the whole Front was involved in either of these operations). See note "Parts" written behind the figure. Specifically, they refer to just 6th Army in both operations. That reminds me, I need to get in the general overview sheets for 1943-45, where things like these are clarified.

Do you have figures for South-Western Front during "Gallop" and Manstein's counterstroke?
Morden
-
- Member
- Posts: 7836
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002 16:59
- Location: Europe
Just Glantz, which you have already. Operations can be defined in many ways - here we are stuck with Krivosheev's. The main thing is to know what it includes and what it doesn't.That's not true - in Gallop every army of South-Western Front - 1st Guards, 3rd Guards, 6th (maybe with exception of 5th Tank which had only fraction of Front's forces - three depleted ID) were involved Smile . But your explanation concerning notes clarifies the figures. Thanks!
Do you have figures for South-Western Front during "Gallop" and Manstein's counterstroke?
cheers
-
- Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 28 Jun 2005 12:42
- Location: Madison, WI
Gentlemen,
It looks like I have access to a researcher in Russia that has access to Army-level strength/casualty and equipment loss reports (10 day intervals) for the GPW.
He is trying to confirm now exactly what the reports are (there are ten of them).
If anyone wants in, please contact me off-forum
Craig Crofoot
[email protected]
It looks like I have access to a researcher in Russia that has access to Army-level strength/casualty and equipment loss reports (10 day intervals) for the GPW.
He is trying to confirm now exactly what the reports are (there are ten of them).
If anyone wants in, please contact me off-forum
Craig Crofoot
[email protected]
-
- Member
- Posts: 166
- Joined: 11 Jun 2004 22:46
- Location: UK
Upon reading some of the data compiled by Krivosheev I am astonished at his reported extent of Soviet losses on the Eastern Front in WW2. Especially astonishing are the losses in 1944, when the Red Army was in the ascendancy.
How accurate is the data in his book? Did the Red Army & Navy really lose 6,878,641 men and 13,800 medium tanks in 1944, as the following link and table would suggest?
http://www.magweb.com/sample/sgmbn/sgm80soj.htm
These figures are truly staggering.
How accurate is the data in his book? Did the Red Army & Navy really lose 6,878,641 men and 13,800 medium tanks in 1944, as the following link and table would suggest?
http://www.magweb.com/sample/sgmbn/sgm80soj.htm
These figures are truly staggering.
-
- Member
- Posts: 7836
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002 16:59
- Location: Europe
Doppelganger:
It is, with considerable reason, widely reagrded as the most comprehensive analysis of Soviet losses in existence, and rests on a thorough research effort by a large team into a large selection of materials that have been and remain mostly unavailable to researchers in general. There has been criticisms, but these have as far as I know been t9o the effect of his figures being too low - this pertains specifically to the losses in the Winter war, during 1941 and among POWs. I have never seen his 1944 figures questioned, and there is IMo little reason for doing so. I don't think tihs table contains anything about tank losses though?
cheers
It is, with considerable reason, widely reagrded as the most comprehensive analysis of Soviet losses in existence, and rests on a thorough research effort by a large team into a large selection of materials that have been and remain mostly unavailable to researchers in general. There has been criticisms, but these have as far as I know been t9o the effect of his figures being too low - this pertains specifically to the losses in the Winter war, during 1941 and among POWs. I have never seen his 1944 figures questioned, and there is IMo little reason for doing so. I don't think tihs table contains anything about tank losses though?
cheers
-
- Member
- Posts: 166
- Joined: 11 Jun 2004 22:46
- Location: UK
Hi Qvist.
No the tank losses data was taken from the website that the table was linked from. Basically an overview of Krivosheev's book.
I was sure of the general accuracy of his book, given the many nods to his analysis and data by people in the know. I just did not expect the 1944 figures to be quite so high, or the 1943 ones for that matter.
All we need now is one definitive work that has the casualty figures, both men and equipment, for both sides and at all stages of the war, so that direct comparisions can be made. Sadly it looks like this may be impossible from the German side at least in 1945 though.
Cheers.
No the tank losses data was taken from the website that the table was linked from. Basically an overview of Krivosheev's book.
I was sure of the general accuracy of his book, given the many nods to his analysis and data by people in the know. I just did not expect the 1944 figures to be quite so high, or the 1943 ones for that matter.
All we need now is one definitive work that has the casualty figures, both men and equipment, for both sides and at all stages of the war, so that direct comparisions can be made. Sadly it looks like this may be impossible from the German side at least in 1945 though.
Cheers.
-
- Member
- Posts: 7836
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002 16:59
- Location: Europe
Hi Doppelganger
cheers
A very understandable sense of surprise. It is clear that the Red Army paid very heavily indeed for its advances in 1943-44.I was sure of the general accuracy of his book, given the many nods to his analysis and data by people in the know. I just did not expect the 1944 figures to be quite so high, or the 1943 ones for that matter.
Amen to that. I think such a work would be feasible, if possibly not quite until the very end.All we need now is one definitive work that has the casualty figures, both men and equipment, for both sides and at all stages of the war, so that direct comparisions can be made. Sadly it looks like this may be impossible from the German side at least in 1945 though.
cheers
-
- Member
- Posts: 121
- Joined: 04 Jul 2005 05:32
- Location: GyE
-
- Member
- Posts: 7836
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002 16:59
- Location: Europe
-
- Member
- Posts: 121
- Joined: 04 Jul 2005 05:32
- Location: GyE
-
- Member
- Posts: 692
- Joined: 03 Nov 2004 03:23
- Location: United States
-
- Member
- Posts: 1945
- Joined: 01 Jun 2006 11:24
- Location: Russia
Probably you have no good knowledge of scales of military actions which were conducted by Red Army against forces of the Axis.Doppleganger wrote:Upon reading some of the data compiled by Krivosheev I am astonished at his reported extent of Soviet losses on the Eastern Front in WW2. Especially astonishing are the losses in 1944, when the Red Army was in the ascendancy.
How accurate is the data in his book? Did the Red Army & Navy really lose 6,878,641 men and 13,800 medium tanks in 1944, as the following link and table would suggest?
http://www.magweb.com/sample/sgmbn/sgm80soj.htm
These figures are truly staggering.
For example, in 1942 the general number the soldier and officers of armies of the countries of the Axis who conducted operations against Red Army, made 6,2 million men.
Including Wermacht - 5,3 million men.
About scales of war which was conducted by Red Army, it is possible to judge on following figures.
In total for four years GPW against Red Army it has been exposed 21,5 million soldier and officers of the countries of the Axis. Including 17,5 million Germans.
In total in Red Army it has been called 34,5 million person, including 450,0 thousand women.
From these 34,5 million to forces of armies of the Axis resisted 25,5 million soldier and officers of Red Army.
In total irrevocable losses of Red Army (the victims who have died of wound, taken prisoner, missing persons) have made almost 12,0 million.
Irrevocable losses of armies of the Axis have made more than 9,0 million.
-
- Member
- Posts: 550
- Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:58
- Location: Moscow