Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 07 Oct 2017 10:27

Well, Zetterling's source is partly the volume VII of the official Soviet history. Which gives only airplanes in the Army air force and (apparently) only operational ones. A little bit earlier the same book gives 10 252 operational airplanes on the front as of 1.7.43.
For comparison, according to a formerly classified statistical digest "Soviet aviation in numbers...":
Army air force on the front - 8826 airplanes on 1.7.43, including 7796 operational
Long-range bomber force - 740/512
Air defense fighters - 2124/1554
Navy's air force - 817/652
Or total 12561/10541

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Hiryu- » 07 Oct 2017 13:34

Thanks Art, your response is enlightening.

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Hiryu- » 07 Oct 2017 17:29

Another question, what is included in the "Others" aircraft category? Transport planes, I guess..?
Are training units included in the "operationnal forces"? What are exactly the "inactive forces": training units, or simply planes without crews stacked in hangars in the rear? Or both?

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 22 Dec 2017 16:53

Another question, what is included in the "Others" aircraft category?
Transport, sanitary, liaison, training.
Are training units included in the "operationnal forces"?

For the most part no.
What are exactly the "inactive forces"
Military districts (including schools and training establishment), Far East, Caucasus.
or simply planes without crews stacked in hangars in the rear?
Don't know about that. Typically the Soviet air force possessed more airplanes than fully trained crews.

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Hiryu- » 23 Dec 2017 17:08

Thank you for your response!

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by tramonte » 20 Feb 2020 14:16

Read debate: Vyborg–Petrozavodsk Offensive/Archive 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AVy ... FArchive_1

There were two operations (based on Soviet documents)g
1) Operation Vyborg (9-20.6.1944)
2) Operation Kotka (Soviet plan to penetrate to river of Kymi)

The latter part of the offensive was sunk deep into Soviet memory hole. No losses mentioned by Krivosheev.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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John Hilly
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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by John Hilly » 20 Feb 2020 14:27

tramonte wrote:
20 Feb 2020 14:16
Read debate: Vyborg–Petrozavodsk Offensive/Archive 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AVy ... FArchive_1

There were two operations (based on Soviet documents)g
1) Operation Vyborg (9-20.6.1944)
2) Operation Kotka (Soviet plan to penetrate to river of Kymi)

The latter part of the offensive was sunk deep into Soviet memory hole. No losses mentioned by Krivosheev.
I have been wondering the same for years.
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 20 Feb 2020 16:13

Are you sure that you are posting in the right topic?

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 26 Dec 2020 12:48

Personnel of the Soviet military forces according to the USSR's census of January 1939:

Breakdown personnel strength of the Red Army according to the all-Union census of 1939 (as submitted by K.Voroshilov to V. Molotov on 7.2.1939)

Districts - Total personnel (including women)
Moscow Military District – 126 741 (259)
Leningrad MD – 198 224 (149) [1]
Kiev MD – 267 794 (76) [2]
North-Caucasus MD – 51 607 (76)
Central Asia MD – 33 087 (20) [3]
Transcaucasus MD – 50 581 (30)
Volga MD – 53 627 (38)
Ural MD – 28 215 (17)
Siberian MD – 31 503 (52)
Transbaikal MD – 101 096 (7) [4]
Kalinin MD – 37 197 (22)
Orel MD – 34 668 (23)
1 Sep.Army (Far East) – 324 359 (15) [5]
2 Sep.Army (Far East) – 218 532 (6) [6]
Kharkov MD – 86 563 (4)
Belorussian MD – 208 814 (64) [7]
Special Corps (Mongolia) – 46 190 (4) [8]
Central directorates - 5111 (116)

1 – including 4000 in construction battalions
2 – including 10 000 in construction battalions
3 – including 2052 men of the railroad corps
4 – including 13 000 men in construction battalions and 4156 men of the railroad corps
5 – including 42 166 men in construction battalion and 54 141 in the railroad corps
6 – including 57 532 men n construction battalion and 8256 in the railroad corps
7 – including 5 000 in construction battalions
8 – including 2000 men in construction battalions and 1500 in motor transport battalions

Total: 1 903 910 (1014 women), of them 203 816 men in “civil” formations (railroad corps, construction units etc).

For comparison according to M.Meltyukhov the strength of the Red Army as of 24 February 1939 was 1 720 296 men plus 211 666 in civil organizations attached to the army. Most probably that stands for authorized strength.
According to the report of the General Staff’s chief B.M.Shaposhnikov the authorized strength of the Red Army as of 1.1.1939 was 1 691 093 men. The authorized strength of civil formations attached to the Army was 206 648 men, including:
Railroad corps – 54 106
Railroad operation regiments – 14 473
Construction battalions – 122 332
Construction Corps (under People’s Commissariat for Defense Industry) – 15 737

Breakdown of the personnel strength of the Soviet Navy according to the 1939’s census (as reported by Frinovskiy to Molotov on 7.2.1939:

Pacific Fleet – 74 459 (including 7 women)
Baltic Fleet – 55 225 (20)
Black Sea Fleet – 36 450 (8)
North Fleet – 9110 (1)
Amur Military Flotilla – 10 393 (1)
Dnieper Military Flotilla – 1 415 (1)
Caspian Military Flotilla – 1051 (-)
Yeisk and Perm Aviation Schools – 5953 (3)
Central depots – 108
Central directorates -1269 (10)
Total 195 433 (incl. 51 women)

Also 890 men not covered by the census which gives the total strength of Navy as 196 323.

Results of the NKVD census: personnel of the NKVD central apparatus, state security branches, prisons, MKVD military forces: total 350 390 men and 15 449 women (365 839 total). Unfortunately only those aggregate numbers were reported, so what part belonged to NKVD troops cannot be established. For comparison the authorized strength of the NKVD military forces in 1938 was 280 826 men (“Voiska NKVD v Velikoy Otechestvennoy Voine (1939-1941)”, Vol.I, 2015)

Unless indicated the numbers are from "All-union population census of 1939. Principal results" (Moscow, 1992)
https://www.prlib.ru/item/328812

There are two very salient thing in all these stats:

A. Eastern orientation. Of 1.9 million men in the Red Army 690 thousand were deployed east of the Lake Baikal in the 1 and 2 Armies, Transbaikal District and Special Corps in Molngolia facing Japan and satellite forces. Adding the Pacific Fleet and Amur Flotilla we arrive to the 775 thousand men in the standing military forces in the Far East or some 37% of the total Army and Navy strength (2,100,000).

B. Breakdown by branches. Of nearly 2.4 million military personnel only 1.7 million or 70% belonged to the army proper and the remaining 30% to auxiliary branches (Navy, NKVD forces, various construction and labor elements). That was, of course, an unhealthy proportion, given that the army was supposed to bear the main brunt in any possible campaign.

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 04 Feb 2021 08:23

Red Army's strength at the all-Union census of 17 December 1926

By personnel type:
69,971 commanding and administrative personnel, including 43,229 commanders (officers), 25,576 cadets, 81,531 NCOs, 381,969 privates, 17,875 civil personnel, total 576,922 men

By districts and commands:
Moscow Military District - 87,219
Leningrad Military District - 64,973
Belorussian Military District - 72,667
Ukrainian Military District - 115,996
Volga Military District - 28,063
North Caucasus Military District - 33,247
Siberian Military District - 51,809
Central Asian Military District - 43,798
Caucasus Army - 41,160
Military Commissar of the Kazakh ASSR - 844
Central apparatus - 3,095
Total ground and air forces - 542,871
Baltic Fleet with central HQs and schools - 22,080

Black Sea Fleet - 9,071
Other fleets and flotillas - 2,900
Total Navy - 34,051

Total Red Army - 576,922

By branch:
Central directorates - 3095
District and regional HQs - 14,032
Infantry - 295,588
Cavalry (except organic) - 60,746
Artillery (except organic) - 13,294
Signal and engineers - 23,546
Railroad troops - 13,015
Transport - 1,965
Combat elements of air forces - 8,233
Schools - 50,874
Watch and security troops - 25,668
Establishments and service elements - 32,815
Total ground and air forces - 542,871

From:
http://rgvarchive.ru/rkkadoc6

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by KDF33 » 06 Feb 2021 03:34

Art wrote:
04 Feb 2021 08:23
Red Army's strength at the all-Union census of 17 December 1926
Hi Art,

I remember you had provided data on active Army strength, broken down by Front, back in the day on the Armchair General Forum.

IIRC, it was specifically the GKO decrees on feeding the active army. It was similar to this:
Yuri wrote:
19 Jun 2006 20:37
On September, 11th 1941ã.

The State Committee of Defense decides:
1. To install delivery of food rations of Red Army for September and IV quarter 1941 on number in quantity 7 400 000 person.
2. To confirm distribution of rations on fronts and districts, proceeding from following number of armies:
The Karelian front … … … … … … … … … … 185 000 person
The Leningrad front … … … … … … … …. 452 000 person
Northwest front … ..… … … … … …. 252 000 person
The western front … … … … … … … … … …... 511 000 person
Bryansk front … … … … … … … … … ….. 294 000 person
Southwest front … … … … … … … …. 850 000 person
Southern front … … … … … … … … … … ….. 532 000 person
Reserve front … … … … … … … … … … 491 000 person
The Odessa group...................................... 51 000 person
51-st army … … … … … … … … … … … … … 101 000 person
52-nd army … … … … … … … … … … … … 170 000 person
54-th army … … … … … … … … … … … … … . 85 000 person
The Arkhangelsk military district … … … ….. 104 000 person
The Moscow military district … … … … …......... 392 000 person
The Oryol military district............................. 245 000 person
The Kharkov military district … … … … …. 356 000 person
The North-Caucasian military district … …... 228 000 person
The Transcaucasian military district … … … …390 000 person
The Ural military district … … … … … ….......... 221 000 person
At-Volga military district … … … …... 268 000 person
Central Asia military district...................... 170 000 person
The Siberian military district … … … … … … 176 000 person
Transbaikalian military district … … … ….. 320 000 person
Far East front … … … … … … …...................... 511 000 person
The Leningrad military district...................... 45 000 person

Total … … … … … … … … … … ….. … … ….. 7 400 000 person
Do you think you could repost it here? It was amazingly useful information and is impossible to find anywhere on the web since ACG shut down.

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Art » 08 Feb 2021 14:34

I don't remember what it was exactly. That Krivosheev's thing, probably?
viewtopic.php?p=1378128#p1378128

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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by per70 » 30 Mar 2021 18:26

KDF33 wrote:
06 Feb 2021 03:34
Do you think you could repost it here? It was amazingly useful information and is impossible to find anywhere on the web since ACG shut down.
I'm a bit unsure about the specific data table you're looking for.

But for the ration strength figures, you can take a look here:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/gko1941.html
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/gko1942.html

11.09.41:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/0660.html

15.10.41:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/0806.html

10.01.42:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/1119.html

04.02.42:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/1242.html

05.03.42:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/1403.html

05.05.42:
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/1704.html


Some explanation for the orders.
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/0662.html
https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/0663.html


Given that the orders were given at different days of the month, I'm uncertain about when the counting, if any, was actually done.

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 30 Mar 2021 22:28

GKO Resolutions are available here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/w ... 099/childs

The week you are looking for is here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/war//cards/366190

The actual document is here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/war//cards/368787
Document 660ss / s. On the establishment of the size of the Red Army for September and the 4th quarter of 1941 and on the release of food rations for the People's Commissariat of Defense.
Ф644Оп2Д17Л146.jpg
Ф644Оп2Д17Л147.jpg
Ф644Оп2Д17Л148.jpg
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stg 44
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Re: Soviet Fronts strengths: Overview

Post by stg 44 » 31 Mar 2021 02:37

Does anyone have the original Red Army Front strength reports for August, September, and October 1941, not the GKO ration reports?

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