dog mines?

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Ezboard

dog mines?

Post by Ezboard » 30 Sep 2002 17:38

weiwensg
Veteran Member
Posts: 335
(11/24/01 4:31:25 am)
Reply dog mines?
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Hey guys,
I just heard a hilarious story.

When Hitler invaded the USSR, the Soviets started creating dog mines--dogs carrying mines on their backs. These were specially trained to go under tanks and blow them up. The Soviets used them with surprising results--the dogs not only did not associate the mines with German tanks, they associated it with Russian tanks! The dogs thus went under Soviet tanks and blew them up. As a result, a Soviet division had to retreat speedily and even then was almost destroyed in the process.

Any truth in this?

weiwensg.

Benoit Douville
Veteran Member
Posts: 139
(11/24/01 5:30:11 am)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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Yep, i have heard that before and it's pretty funny!!! I think they are some truth to this.

Daniel
Visitor
(11/24/01 5:45:34 am)
Reply Hundminen
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as soon as the Germans found out about the dog mines they started shooting all the dogs they encountered, this pretty much anhialated of all dogs on the eastern front within days.The Viet Minh also used dog mines during the late 40's . After 1945 the Soviets still contained refrences to the dog mines, just in case.

Mark Alinsky
New Member
Posts: 1
(11/24/01 8:38:03 am)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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I fail to see what is so amusing about that. Thanks to those bolshevik butchers, I'm sure many of those canines were severly wounded and spent their last minutes of life in lamentable agony. Let's strap a few pounds of live explosives around one of you and see how many Afghan tanks you can disable.

godolfo
Visitor
(11/24/01 12:33:27 pm)
Reply Hundminen
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DAniel is quite right - the Soviets DID have trained dogs
that appearently had been trained to seek food,only
under tanks.THe carried a whip-antenna to trip the fuse
when they dived in under a tank - but being dogs - this
was a rather double-edged weapon - and soon abandoned by the Soviets.

Lars EP
Member
Posts: 52
(11/24/01 1:29:06 pm)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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-Thanks to those bolshevik butchers, I'm sure many of those canines were severly wounded and spent their last minutes of life in lamentable agony.-

Blah blah....

How many horses, wardogs, mules, camels, elephants and what have we, have cursed Mankind with their last dying breath, if they where capable of it? The Wermacht used horses to move their artillery throughout the war. These horses died in droves.

I once saw a documentary that claimed that in the last 1000 years an estimated 100.000.000 horses has died in warfare. So let us all curse the -bolshevik butchers- for using dogs as mines...

Lars



Edited by: Lars EP at: 11/25/01 11:50:59 pm

weiwensg
Veteran Member
Posts: 336
(11/24/01 2:36:07 pm)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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I also heard that was a British plan to stuff dead rats with explosives. Any truth in it?

schmidt
Visitor
(11/25/01 9:57:58 am)
Reply Animals
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weiwensg,I don't find it hilarious at all.I would much rather put a satchel charge on you than on my dog.Some of the best friends that I've ever had have had four legs.As lars has said,the equine death toll has been horrific throughout history,as well as the canine.They just do what they are told,too...Just like men.

Kim
Visitor
(11/25/01 10:05:50 am)
Reply I logged in improperly.I am "Schmidt"
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I am responsible for the above post.I don't want anyone barking up the wrong tree.

dan
Visitor
(11/25/01 1:16:05 pm)
Reply And fins
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The South Africans used dolphins in there war against the Soviets. The dolphins would attach mines to ships, then they'd come back to their trainers, which was much more pleasant than the fate of those dogs.

In Luanda harbour three Russian ships transporting military hardware were blasted, one of them sank.

Benoit Douville
Veteran Member
Posts: 148
(11/25/01 7:51:12 pm)
Reply Poor Dogs
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I love dogs! The German Shepphard is my favorite.

TonyEH
Veteran Member
Posts: 263
(11/25/01 9:22:47 pm)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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The Gerries did this as well...

Tony

Santiago
Visitor
(11/25/01 10:17:13 pm)
Reply German dogs in the "Wehrmacht"
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Hi

There’s a very interesting book about German police and military dogs (spe-cially Austrian ones). The title is “Diensthund Dingo” (“Service dog Dingo”), by Frie-drich Brettner; Merbod Verlag, Wiener Neustadt (Austria), 1993. It seems that it has been paid by the Austrian police. It has about 50 pages with interviews with Austrian-Wehrmacht soldiers who served as “Hundeführer” (dog guides), specially at the Finnish front, and it’s plenty of photographs.

About what kind of dogs and duties, it says:

«In Berlin gab es die Lehr- und Versuchsabteilung des Diensthundewesen der Polizei und Waffen SS –ab Herbst 1942: “Feldhunderschule der Waffen SS”.

«1940 betrug der Stand an Hunden der RASSEN DEUTSCHE SCHÄFFER, ALTDEUTSCHER SCHÄFER, SCHÄFERMISCHLINGSHUND, ROTT-WEILER, RIESENSCHNAUZER, EARYDALETERRIER, BOXER UND DEUTSCHE DOGGE, ingesamt 600 Tiere Ausgebildet wurden die Hundeführer und ihre Tiere zu folgender Verwendung:

«1. Schutzhund, 2. Such- oder Fährtenhund, 3. Meldehund, 4. Zieh- u. Schlitten-hund, 5. Wachhund» (page 46).

(1. Protection dog, 2. Search dog, 3 Messenger dog, 4. Transport and sled dog, 5. Guard dog).

For the German army the dog was like other soldier, with his own soldier book and the same rations of the German soldier. Therefore, one German soldier with two dogs received “three wine bottles, three preservative boxes, triple cigarette rations …!” (page 36-7).

The book has also a brief information about the Russian “kamikaze dogs” against tanks (there’s also a photograph of one of these Russian dogs with its antitank mine).

Best regards




Ovidius
Veteran Member
Posts: 648
(11/25/01 10:34:56 pm)
Reply
Re: German dogs in the "Wehrmacht"
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<<For the German army the dog was like other soldier, with his own soldier book and the same rations of the German soldier. Therefore, one German soldier with two dogs received “three wine bottles, three preservative boxes, triple cigarette rations …!” (page 36-7).>>

I do understand the idea of the "dog as a soldier", in many cases dogs proving themselves more reliable than even humans. But the idea of <<three wine bottles, three preservative boxes, triple cigarette rations …!>> is really stupid. Wine is acceptable - I think the dog would appreciate it :-))

but cigarettes and preservatives.. I would like to know which crazy bureaucrat had this foolish idea.

~Regards,

Ovidius



Tiwaz
Member
Posts: 13
(11/26/01 8:45:59 am)
Reply More info...
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"It has about 50 pages with interviews with Austrian-Wehrmacht soldiers who served as “Hundeführer” (dog guides), specially at the Finnish front, and it’s plenty of photographs."


Never heard about that. Any places where more info could be found?

I have unfortunate feeling that this book has not been published and translated in my country.

Gribing
Visitor
(11/26/01 10:02:25 am)
Reply Like the dolphins
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If Dolphins could be used to carry magnetic mines, dont you think dogs would be able to do the same thing? To carry a magneticmine to the nearest enemy tank (they smell different) and let the mine attach under it. Then the dog returns to its unit. Just like the Dolphins.





Marlon
Visitor
(11/26/01 10:27:32 am)
Reply Dingo
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Any more info on the “Diensthund Dingo”
As you no doubt know, the Dingo is the Australian native dog.
Is there some connexion or just a co-incidence???

godolfo
Visitor
(11/26/01 11:28:34 am)
Reply 'Soviet Mice' Intervene in Battle
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After it had been established that mice and rats had
damaged electrical cabling in Tanks, SPG's and APC's of the Germans and Rumanians on the Don Front in Nov.-42
- to the detriment of their functioning when the blow
fell on 19.11. - the Soviet Press proudly reported that
the 'Soviet Mice intervene successfully in battle...'
Long Live the industrious Soviet Mice.....

Bob4000
Member
Posts: 14
(11/26/01 9:08:37 pm)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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I read in a book somewhere that dogs were used by the soviets too. It didn't last too long though because the dogs were fed under Russian tanks, so in theory they would crawl under German ones too. However, a German tank smells and sounds differently than a Russian one, so the dogs got confused and dove under the wrong ones from time to time in battle.

Edited by: Bob4000 at: 11/26/01 9:09:23 pm

oskar
Member
Posts: 61
(11/26/01 10:06:18 pm)
Reply Re: dog mines?
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Ooops, someone really screwed up big time. Other than a fantastic tactical fasco for the Russians, it does make a very funny story. Ah, and yes, I do have dogs myself, but I cannot help but laugh.

Oskar

Santiago
Visitor
(11/28/01 8:11:34 pm)
Reply About "Diensthund Dingo"
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Hi:

«Never heard about that. Any places where more info could be found?».

Mr. Tiwaz: I don´t think the book has been translated to English. It has been written by an Austrian policeman, and probably the edition has been paid partly or totally by the Austrian Police. The book is about dogs used by the Austrian police and army, and it has a chapter (pages 19-61) about experiences of Austrian “Hundeführer” during world war two. It has 228 pages, and the main part of the book is about real histories related to Austrian police dogs after world war two. Therefore, it ¡s a very enjoyable book for all dogs lovers, but only one quarter of it is related to world war two. It has several photographs, more than 30 about “Wehrmacht dogs”. Perhaps an Austrian reader of this forum can give you information about the actual availability of this book.

«Any more info on the “Diensthund Dingo”
«As you no doubt know, the Dingo is the Australian native dog».

Mr. Marlon: Dingo is the name of an outstanding Austrian police dog, born the 14th Juni 1982, and it gives the name of the book. Therefore is just a co-incidence.

«I do understand the idea of the "dog as a soldier", in many cases dogs proving themselves more reliable than even humans. But the idea of <<three wine bottles, three preservative boxes, triple cigarette rations …!>> is really stupid. Wine is acceptable - I think the dog would appreciate it :-)), but cigarettes and preservatives.. I would like to know which crazy bureaucrat had this foolish idea».

Mr. Ovidiuis, my friend, I recognise that I didn’t explain myself very accurately, partly due to a lack of time, partly due to my lack of English knowledge, but please, a little bit of imagination: don’t be more “square-headed” than the own Germans (it´s a joke).

I explain it better. For the Germans, the dogs count as soldiers, and got the right of the same rations. This was wonderful for the “Hundeführer” soldiers, because they benefited of extra items, unprofitable for dogs but very profitable for soldiers, like extra cigarettes etc. Obviously, no bureaucrat intended to give wine and preservatives to the dogs, but finally that happened. Heinz Hochberger, one “Hundeführer”, remembers:

«Am 30. Juni 1944 is im Mittelabschnitt die Front zusammengebrochen, und so musste das Waldlager verlassen werden. Die Ackjas blieben zurück. Ein Teil der Staffel ist von einem Luftwaffenzug auf der Flucht bis Wilna mitgenommen worden, dort mussten sie sich auf der Frontleitstelle melden und bekamen wieder einen MARSCHBEFEHL FÜR 3 MANN = 1 MANN UND 2 HUNDE, DENN MEINE VORFAHREN ZÄHLTEN DAMAS ALS SOLDATEN. In Königsberg bekamen sie einen Stempel und die VERPFLEGUNG FÜR 3 MANN. Als Frontkämpfer im Infanterieverband erhielten sie zusätzlich 3 Flaschen Sekt, Zigaretten, 1 Schachtel Schokolade, Kekse und 3 Packungen Präservative. Der Zahlmeister und Furier konnte ja nicht wissen, dass die andere 2. Soldaten Hunde waren. Ihr “Herrl auf Zeit”hat natürlich nichts gesagt und schnell eingepackt». “Diensthund Dingo”, by Friedrich Brettner; Merbod Verlag, Wiener Neustadt (Austria), 1993. Page 36-7.

I am afraid my knowledge of languages is not good enough for translating all properly. It says that they were ordered to retreat after the front was broken and they received a “march order” (“Marschbefehl”) for 3 man (1 soldier plus 2 dogs). In Königsberg, at the supplier point, he “cheated” the duty officer presenting him the “march order” and got three rations, including preservatives, wine bottles, cigarettes…

That the dog count like another German soldier is confirmed by “Hundeführer” Siegfried Ölschlegl (Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 100, II Bataillon. 6. Kompanie):

«Mein Kamerad Gottfried Eder aus Bischofwiesen bekam den zweiten, einen schönen deutschen Schäferhund. DIE HUNDE BEKAMEN, TYPISCH FÜR DEN BARRAS (DAS MILITÄR), DIE GLEICHEN RATIONEN WIE JEDER GEBIRGSJÄGER ZUGETEILT». Ibid. Page 39.

It says more or less that the dogs received, typical of the military bureaucracy, the same rations as every mountain-soldier.

The anecdotes of this book are very enjoyable and very representatives of the “first line life” of german “Hundeführers” and service dogs during world war two. Page 157 speaks about “kamikaze” antitank Russian dogs, provided with a 3-4 kilos weight mine. On page 24 there’s a photograph of one of such Russian dogs bearing its “anti-tank combat equipment”.

By the way, Adolf Hitler had an English service dog during world war I, Foxl (See “Dinner table talks” or however is the name in English of his “Tischgespräche”, night 22-23 January 1942).

Best regards to everybody.

Ovidius
Veteran Member
Posts: 670
(11/28/01 8:58:17 pm)
Reply
Re: About "Diensthund Dingo"
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Sorry for the confusion, Mr. Santiago. Instead of a soldier cheating the supply office, you've told the story as the office would have established for a dog the same ratio as for a man(wine, cigarettes and so on).

~Yours,

Ovidius

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