Russian anti tank weapons

[BIGpanzer]

We`ll try not to forget

[Larry Hayward]

I am looking for info & photos on the Soviet 37mm A/T Gun.

I understand that the Soviet licenced built 37mm AT Gun was almost identical to the German 3.7cm PAK 35/36 except that it had spoked wheels. And when the Soviets produced the scaled up version as a 45mm AT, did they by chance use the same size spoked wheels as those on their 45mm Model 1932 AT Gun? They look the same it in the few photos I can find.

[Maigewitter]

Just saw on the link posted on the first side:

In the period of 1941-42 yr. in all on the import it entered (in pcs.):
- 11,43- mm of machine pistols "Thompson" - 60380;
- 11,43- mm of machine pistols "reyzing" - 3990;
- 13,97- mm of anti-tank guns "Boys" - 200;
- 29- mm of mortars "spigot" - 250;
- 60-mm reactive guns - 1000;
- 81- mm of mortars - 30;
- 37- mm of antitank guns - 28;
- 40- mm of antitank guns - 450;
- 57- mm of antitank guns - 48;
- 90- mm of anti-aircraft cannons - 4.

Does anybody have a picture of a russian soldier with such a tommy gun?

[BIGpanzer]

Hi, Larry!
AFAIK Soviets bought production license of 37mm AT gun in 1930 from Rheinmetall. Since 02.1931 factory No 8 produced 37mm AT gun (almost all of them had wheels without spokes! - similar to Germans), in 1932 - experimental 45mm AT gun mod. 1932 (which used the same wheels and gun carriage), since 1937 - 45mm AT gun mod. 1937 (spoked wheels; carriage with springing from licensed copy of improved German 37mm PAK35/36; gun was semi-automatic), since 1942 - 45mm AT gun mod. 1942 (the same spoked wheels and carriage but completely new gun burrel).

http://www.weltkrieg.ru/images/original/27/2662.jpg (37mm AT gun mod. 1930 - copy of PAK35/36 mod. 1928)

http://www.chamtec.com/materials/45mm37ph3.jpg (45mm AT gun mod. 1937)
http://www.thetankmaster.com/IMAGES/AFV ... PTP_01.jpg (45mm AT gun mod. 1937)
http://www.chamtec.com/materials/45mmph1.jpg (45mm AT gun mod. 1937 with nonspoked wheels)

http://libserv.tspu.edu.ru/vov/orugie/8.gif (45mm AT gun mod. 1942)

As for "Thompsons" - I saw once the photo of Soviet tankmen with "Thompsons" near M3 "Stuart" light tank, but I don't remember the source.

[Dima]

Does anybody have a picture of a russian soldier with such a tommy gun?

[BIGpanzer]

I saw the upper Dima's picture indeed, thanks!
BP

[Maigewitter]

Thanks Dima!

[Juha Tompuri]

Here are some older posts about the Soviet 37mm AT-gun:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 15&start=0

Regards, Juha

[BIGpanzer]

I found some additional info sbout Soviet light AT guns:

1) 37mm AT gun mod. 1930 (1-K) - 255 + 404 + 105 copies were produced in 1931-1933. They were used even during WWII by artillery platoons of infantry battalions and AT batteries of infantry divisions. Quite many were produced with spoked large wheels.
Specifications: 820 m/s; 313 kg; 15 shots/min; 5600 m; 0.66 kg shell; 50 mm armor/100 m or 30 mm armor/500 m.

2) 45mm AT gun mod. 1937 (53-K) - improved mod. 1932 (19-K), mod. 1933, mod. 1934. Mod. 1932 - 2974 copies in 1933-1936; mod. 1937 - more than 14000 copies in 1937-1940 + 1982 copies in 1941 + 38000 copies in 1942-1944. Those guns were the main Soviet AT guns in the beginning of WWII and were used by AT platoons of infantry battalions (2 guns), AT batteries of infantry divisions (12 guns), separate AT regiments (16-20 guns).
Specifications: 760 m/s; 560 kg; 20 shots/min; 4400 m; 1.43 kg shell; 43 mm armor/500 m or 32 mm armor/1000 m.
Battle record - 12 destroyed tanks by gun No. A2203H in summer 1942.

3) 45mm AT gun mod. 1942 (M-42) - that was improved mod. 1937. First prototypes were produced in spring 1942, serial production started 01.1943 (10483 copies were produced in 1943-1945). Those guns were used by AT artillery regiments and brigades till their replacement by 57mm AT gun mod. 1943 (ZIS-2).
Specifications: 870 m/s; 625 kg; 20 shots/min; 4550 m; 2.14 kg shell; 70mm armor/500 m or 51 mm armor/1000 m.

[Panzerkampfwagen]

I am only aware of the famous 88 mm anti tank/aircraft gun used by the Germans, designed by Krupp. In Kruschev's memoirs, he tells that the Skoda company had a contract with the Russians of producing these 88 mm guns. However, after the Germans invaded the rump of Czechoslovakia, they cancelled this contract with the Russians. Hitler insisted that Skoda continue to honour the contract ( they were allies that time) { Though, Krushchev admits that they knew that Hitler was probably trying to fool them and just buy time.)

1. Is this Skoda version different from the Krupp one?
2. If in 1938, Russia was getting these weapons, why werent they in use in Barbarossa in 1941? Was it not good quality that the Russians didnt use it? I dont recollect the Russians using a 88mm during the initial phases of the war.

[AVV]

Hello!

If in 1938, Russia was getting these weapons, why werent they in use in Barbarossa in 1941?

The Russians had this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/85_mm_air_ ... 939_(52-K)


Best regards, Aleks

[Panzerkampfwagen]

What happened to the Skoda 88mm then? Was it not in use by any countries?

[eppanzer]

Soviets had a lot anti-tank and field artillery guns to fight Germany AFVs. Acctually, soviets had no opposing armed forces with masses of the AFVs (Japan, Poland, Baltic States, Turkey and etc.) until September, 1939. Only SU had powerfull anti-tank artillery brigades in 1941.So the soviets had not extreme need for anti tank rifles, altought the ATRs were included in the Rifle Division TOEs. After hard defeat in the 1941 they lost a lot AT and FA guns, so urgent needed a cheap and mass AT weapon. Later they again had strong AT artillery and, according to manuals, even all FA artillery had be used for AT purposes too. Soviets had so deep AT and FA artillery defence, that they did not need weak close range AT weapons (ATRs and 'bazookas" were ineffective later in the war).

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Soviets had a lot anti-tank and field artillery guns to fight Germany AFVs. Acctually, soviets had no opposing armed forces with masses of the AFVs (Japan, Poland, Baltic States, Turkey and etc.) until September, 1939. Only SU had powerfull anti-tank artillery brigades in 1941.So the soviets had not extreme need for anti tank rifles, altought the ATRs were included in the Rifle Division TOEs. After hard defeat in the 1941 they lost a lot AT and FA guns, so urgent needed a cheap and mass AT weapon. Later they again had strong AT artillery and, according to manuals, even all FA artillery had be used for AT purposes too. Soviets had so deep AT and FA artillery defence, that they did not need weak close range AT weapons (ATRs and 'bazookas" were ineffective later in the war).

Unless you intend to provide every platoon with AT gun I don't see, how you don't need portable AT. Anyway SPG-82 was introduced late in the war. It was, in effect 82mm Recoilless rifle, weighting about 37kg, with reported armor penetration of up to 230 mm. I would imagine that the numbers issued by the end of the war were rather small since officially it was accepted into service in 1950.

[eppanzer]

Unless you intend to provide every platoon with AT gun I don't see, how you don't need portable AT. Anyway SPG-82 was introduced late in the war. It was, in effect 82mm Recoilless rifle, weighting about 37kg, with reported armor penetration of up to 230 mm. I would imagine that the numbers issued by the end of the war were rather small since officially it was accepted into service in 1950.

Soviets did not need a weak close range AT weapon. AFAIK SPG-82 was not introduced in the troops late in the war, because it was tested all the time until 1950:

До конца Второй Мировой Войны проводились испытания нового гранатомета, а затем его доработка.

The most common AT weapon was the 45 mm AT gun model 1932, 1937, later M-42 (production until 1946).
From 8th October, 1942 - Rifle Batallion had AT platoon (2 45 mm ATGs) and ATR platoon.
From 9th June 1945 - Rifle Batallion had AT battery (4 45 mm ATGs, some platoons could have 57 mm ZiS-2), ATR platoon was removed

Only from 1950 SPG-82 started to change AT guns in the Rifle Battalion AT platoon