...and you guys say that we're full of ourselves...

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
Logan Hartke
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...and you guys say that we're full of ourselves...

Post by Logan Hartke » 10 Oct 2002 06:04

Neither the Red Army Museum in Moscow nor the Soviet Air Force Museum makes any mention of Soviet use of American aircraft during WWII or that the Western Allies even participated in that war. This is even more interesting when comparing a P-63 flight manual page from the Soviet version and the American original.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce39.htm

The Russians say that the Eastern Front is forgotten by Western governments; well, heck, at least the Western museums acknowledge the war on the East Front and give credit where it is due.

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Post by Logan Hartke » 10 Oct 2002 06:08

Both the USAF museum and the Patton Museum in Ft. Knox have areas dedicated to the war on the Eastern Front. If only they could get some more equipment out of the former USSR, those sections would be much bigger. Aberdeen has an area for it as well.

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Ando
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Post by Ando » 10 Oct 2002 06:19

I read recently that the red army were fed food items such as spam from american supplies. Do they acknowledge this type of support?

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 10 Oct 2002 06:23

I do not know. I do know that SPAM given to Soviet soldiers was one of the very few meat products most men got on the front, though.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Re: ...and you guys say that we're full of ourselves...

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 10 Oct 2002 08:09

Logan Hartke wrote:
Neither the Red Army Museum in Moscow nor the Soviet Air Force Museum makes any mention of Soviet use of American aircraft during WWII or that the Western Allies even participated in that war. This is even more interesting when comparing a P-63 flight manual page from the Soviet version and the American original.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce39.htm

The Russians say that the Eastern Front is forgotten by Western governments; well, heck, at least the Western museums acknowledge the war on the East Front and give credit where it is due.

Logan Hartke
This is official page of Air Force Museum at Monino http://www.monino.ru/index.sema?a=articles&pid=2&id=27

how does this plane look to you Logan Image


the only person who is full of himself is guy you got your quote from.

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Post by Caldric » 10 Oct 2002 08:19

How successful were the P-39's for the Soviets? I know they were less then the best for Air war the US was engaged in in the Pacific, but how did they fair in low altitude fights and land attack? Would think the 37MM nose cannon could rip a motor convoy to pieces.

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Post by Logan Hartke » 10 Oct 2002 18:17

I'm not saying that they don't have American planes there, oleg; I'm just asking if it says anything about LL in the exhibits. As long as there are Soviet markings on the plane, most people will be none the wiser as to where it came from.

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Post by Logan Hartke » 10 Oct 2002 18:21

Also, oleg, they might have added a bit on the Western countries after the Iron Curtain crashed to the floor.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 10 Oct 2002 20:49

Caldric,
You asked how succesful the Airacobras were for the soviets? Well... quite succesful: G.A. Rechalov with his 50 claims was (as far as I know) the best result achieved by US made plane. Ever? The soviets state, that for every P-39 shot down, 122 sorties were flown and four enemy planes shot down.

JT

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 10 Oct 2002 21:15

Logan Hartke wrote:I'm not saying that they don't have American planes there, oleg; I'm just asking if it says anything about LL in the exhibits. As long as there are Soviet markings on the plane, most people will be none the wiser as to where it came from.

Logan Hartke
it does say it. it also talks about P-63. It was kind of hard to avoid talking about it since Pokrishkin flew it for much of GPW. also every May 9th there exibit of WW II military equipment near Kremlin - guess there were plenty of Western euipment supplied to USSR on display there - Studebackers included. Also they have exibit at the bigest war memorila in Moscow - Poklonnaya Gora -they have Sherman there.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 10 Oct 2002 21:18

Caldric wrote:How successful were the P-39's for the Soviets? I know they were less then the best for Air war the US was engaged in in the Pacific, but how did they fair in low altitude fights and land attack? Would think the 37MM nose cannon could rip a motor convoy to pieces.
Cardic you might be interested in this one Image

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 10 Oct 2002 21:22

One of the most distinguished Soviet Aces of WW II on Spitfire fighters was Twice Hero of the Soviet Union Alexandr Karpov. During Great Patriotic War Guard Major A Karpov has made 519 sorties, participated in 130 air combats, has shot down 30 enemy aircraft personally and 7 - in group, becoming the most successful pilot of Air Defense.
Alexandr Terentjevich Karpov was born on October 14, 1917 in the village of Filenevo near Kaluga. In 1940 he was graduated as a pilot from the Kacha Army Flight Schoo.l His maiden sortie was near Moscow at the end of July, 1941 on Yak-1 fighter In September 27th Air Defense Fighter Regiment, in which one served A Karpov, was transferred to Leningrad region. Together with his leader Senior Lieutenant I Belyaev, A Karpov was shot down more than 50 enemy airplanes.
June 30,1944 A Karpov was shot down by a 1000* German airplane from destroyed above Leningrad on Yak fighters.
Since a summer of 1944 A Karpov flew Spitfire LFIXE fighter. On October 20,1944 when he attack German reconnaissance aircraft on a high altitude, the Guard Major A Karpov has lost consciousness because of failure of an oxygen system and has perished.
On September28,1943 the Squadron Leader of the 27'" GIAPPVO Guard Captain A Karpov was honoured by being named a Hero of the Soviet Union.
On August 22, 1944 Guard Captain A Karpov became Twice Hero of the Soviet Union.


Image

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 11 Oct 2002 20:50

This one is form Kubinka tank museum Image


This one is from Snegeri Image


This one is also from Kubinka Image

This one is from Poklonnay Gora Image


In general there a lot of staff you can in Russian villages Image

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 14 Oct 2002 03:38

Logan, I expect you'll find that given the lack of funds avaliable to musuems and libraries in Russia, they've most likely been unable to correct Soviet era propaganda.

When your country is in economic trouble, the last thing you're going to be worried about is making sure that your history texts are accurate, you'll want to be digging yourself out of economic trouble. However, I'll concede that there are probably quite a few old Soviet era people who'd rather keep the Western War assistance in the dark still.

Gwynn

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 15 Oct 2002 06:52

oleg wrote:
Logan Hartke wrote:I'm not saying that they don't have American planes there, oleg; I'm just asking if it says anything about LL in the exhibits. As long as there are Soviet markings on the plane, most people will be none the wiser as to where it came from.

Logan Hartke
it does say it. it also talks about P-63. It was kind of hard to avoid talking about it since Pokrishkin flew it for much of GPW. also every May 9th there exibit of WW II military equipment near Kremlin - guess there were plenty of Western euipment supplied to USSR on display there - Studebackers included. Also they have exibit at the bigest war memorila in Moscow - Poklonnaya Gora -they have Sherman there.

Again, I don't the existance of the Western equipment or even the mention of the equipment's nationality. What I'm talking about is mention of the war in the West at the two museums mentioned. For example, the museums in the US go to lengths to portray the war in the East and restore Soviet equipment. I think that Gwynn explains the situation quite well.

Logan Hartke

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