...and you guys say that we're full of ourselves...

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
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Harri
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Post by Harri » 15 Oct 2002 12:56

More about lend-lease aircraft used by USSR:
http://www.apali.fi/books/rs4_uk/rs4_uk.html

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 15 Oct 2002 19:08

Logan Hartke wrote:
oleg wrote:
Logan Hartke wrote:I'm not saying that they don't have American planes there, oleg; I'm just asking if it says anything about LL in the exhibits. As long as there are Soviet markings on the plane, most people will be none the wiser as to where it came from.

Logan Hartke
it does say it. it also talks about P-63. It was kind of hard to avoid talking about it since Pokrishkin flew it for much of GPW. also every May 9th there exibit of WW II military equipment near Kremlin - guess there were plenty of Western euipment supplied to USSR on display there - Studebackers included. Also they have exibit at the bigest war memorila in Moscow - Poklonnaya Gora -they have Sherman there.

Again, I don't the existance of the Western equipment or even the mention of the equipment's nationality. What I'm talking about is mention of the war in the West at the two museums mentioned. For example, the museums in the US go to lengths to portray the war in the East and restore Soviet equipment. I think that Gwynn explains the situation quite well.

Logan Hartke
you know that is funny - I've been to March Airfiled museum, I've been to Plam Springs Aviation museum and to Santa Mobica museum of flying -out of these 3 only Santa monica had a lonley Yak_3 which was in rather shady condition -and that was it as far as Eastern Front was concerned

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Post by Logan Hartke » 15 Oct 2002 23:36

America never had the luxury of having 151,700 small arms, 9,400 artillery pieces, 11,900 tanks, 5,000 armoured cars, 18,300 aircraft and 520 ships sent to it by the Soviet Union. America had to either purchase or acquire 90% of the Soviet equipment by war.

Logan Hartke

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 16 Oct 2002 01:59

Logan is right there. It is somewhat more difficult to get your hands on Soviet equipment if you're not actually in the Soviet union, while the Soviets had thousands of pieces of Western Equipment at wars end.

When considering the lack of Russian acknowledgement of the Western War, we must also consider the name given to the War by the Russians. The "Great Patriotic War" itself indicates the importance with which the Russians place their own efforts within the framework of the war.

Gwynn

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Oct 2002 05:37

1. Most of LL equipment war retuned after the war – hence lend part.
2. US acquired plenty of Russian WW II two equipment via war in Korea and such
3. “When considering the lack of Russian acknowledgement of the Western War” –says who – lack of acknowledgement is debatable to say the least. As for Great Patriotic War – it is the name that was given to Soviet-German conflict ( Short War between USSR and Japan consequently is not considered to be part of GPW) - I don’t exactly see what is wrong with that – the war as a whole is called World War II and was always called so.
As ‘above mentioned museums – as I said above Monino (Air Force museum) does have western airplanes in its collection and the Soviet Army museum is just that - Museum of Soviet Army – it is not Museum of WWII – which is on Poklonnaya hill and which does have LL equipment (see photos above) and so does Kubinka - Russian counterpart to Aberdin.

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Post by Logan Hartke » 16 Oct 2002 05:54

oleg wrote:1. Most of LL equipment war retuned after the war – hence lend part.

Where did you read that? I've never read that before. In fact, I've seen a slew of pictures from the Berlin Airlift to Vietnam where Soviet military systems are still being supplied by Studebakers.

oleg wrote:2. US acquired plenty of Russian WW II two equipment via war in Korea and such

Like I said...
"America had to either purchase or acquire 90% of the Soviet equipment by war."
I've seen a great deal of this equipment in museums across the nation.

oleg wrote:3. “When considering the lack of Russian acknowledgement of the Western War” –says who – lack of acknowledgement is debatable to say the least. As for Great Patriotic War – it is the name that was given to Soviet-German conflict ( Short War between USSR and Japan consequently is not considered to be part of GPW) - I don’t exactly see what is wrong with that – the war as a whole is called World War II and was always called so.

So in the average Russian school's history textbooks, it mentions Lend Lease, the Western involvement in the Pacific, and the war Western Europe?

oleg wrote:As ‘above mentioned museums – as I said above Monino (Air Force museum) does have western airplanes in its collection and the Soviet Army museum is just that - Museum of Soviet Army – it is not Museum of WWII – which is on Poklonnaya hill and which does have LL equipment (see photos above) and so does Kubinka - Russian counterpart to Aberdin.

Yes, but both arms of the Soviet military owe a great deal to America and had large portions of their equipment provided by the US. Also, both arms cooperated with the US military in multiple battles, so I find it odd that they tend not to mention the US services in much length like the USAF museum does with their Soviet counterparts.

Logan Hartke

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Oct 2002 07:26

So in the average Russian school's history textbooks, it mentions Lend Lease, the Western involvement in the Pacific, and the war Western Europe?




yes even - in Soviet times. I became aware of battle of midway when I was 12 and i kne of Pearl harbor and Normandy as Early as 10.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Oct 2002 07:27

Yes, but both arms of the Soviet military owe a great deal to America and had large portions of their equipment provided by the US. Also, both arms cooperated with the US military in multiple battles, so I find it odd that they tend not to mention the US services in much length like the USAF museum does with their Soviet counterparts.
- owe a gerat dela to America -care to clarify?
[/quote]

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Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Oct 2002 05:09

oleg wrote:- owe a gerat dela to America -care to clarify?

Sure. Lend Lease saved the lives of many Russians. Do you deny this?

Logan Hartke

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Ando
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Post by Ando » 17 Oct 2002 05:33

Logan what do you think was more important, the equipment or the food supplies?

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Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Oct 2002 05:51

Either the food or the raw materials (such as steel, fuel, and explosives). One of the most important things was vacuum tubes for radios and other electronic items.

Logan Hartke

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Ando
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Post by Ando » 17 Oct 2002 05:54

Are there any figures anywhere on the amount of resources the USA supplied?

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Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Oct 2002 05:56


Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Oct 2002 05:56

...and as far as I know, the Soviet Union never paid back a dime of it.

Logan Hartke

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Oct 2002 05:57

...so I guess that you could say that they owe the US in more way than one.

Logan Hartke

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