...and you guys say that we're full of ourselves...

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 18 Oct 2002 02:36

Really now? That's a matter of opinion. It would seem to me as if this is a pitiful attempt of yours to try to retaliate against me after I locked your inflammatory topics. From Juha's POV, we were both right, and that's a pretty fair 3rd party assessment.

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SerbTiger
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Post by SerbTiger » 18 Oct 2002 04:31

No I think that in this case Oleg is right since Russian museums do honour Land Lease and since Russia is paying back and has in the past for the help.

Logan
This has nothing to do with that Awards thing that was just fun not serious stuff

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 18 Oct 2002 05:26

SerbTiger wrote:No I think that in this case Oleg is right since Russian museums do honour Land Lease and since Russia is paying back and has in the past for the help.

So far, I have not seen that either of the museums mentions the war in the West at all. As for paying back the US, using our own LL equpment against us is pretty rotten in my opinion.

Logan Hartke

Mark V
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Post by Mark V » 18 Oct 2002 06:19

oleg wrote:Well for instance Cruiser “Kaganovich” commissioned December 6 1944, destroyers Reshitelniy, Retiviy, Razumniy, Rzyarenniy, Revnostniy, Rezkiy, Redkiy, Strogiy, Stroyniy, Svobodniy.


Nice try, but no.

These were just those few vessels that were on such advanced state when war broke up that they could be finished during wartime. All except Kaganovich and Redkiy were launched before the outbreak of war, most were launched years before war started, so they were 80-95% ready when war broke out. All heavy construction (which consumes large quantities of steel) was done well before war.

We were talking about steel consumption, these were build from Soviet steel. Only interesting vessel is Kaganovich, she apparently needed a bit more than just finishing in fitting-out pier.

Overall, i wouldn't call this as serious shipbuilding. Actually Soviet shipbuilding went to complete halt during Great Patriotic War, and none could say that shipbuilding consumed steel from lend-lease program. ***



*** OK, to make it complete: There were propably somewhere, in someone of those vessels a few plates of American steel - on some additional Flak-protection shield !! .
Last edited by Mark V on 18 Oct 2002 06:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 18 Oct 2002 06:25

Logan Hartke wrote:
SerbTiger wrote:No I think that in this case Oleg is right since Russian museums do honour Land Lease and since Russia is paying back and has in the past for the help.

So far, I have not seen that either of the museums mentions the war in the West at all. As for paying back the US, using our own LL equpment against us is pretty rotten in my opinion.

Logan Hartke
why don't you go vist them during your summer vacation. as point for point b)
Article 5 of LL agreement between US and GB
The Government of the United Kingdom will return to the United States of America at the end of the present emergency, as determined by the President, such defense articles transferred under this Agreement as shall not have been destroyed, lost or consumed and as shall be determined by the President to be useful in the defense of the United States of America or of the Western Hemisphere or to be otherwise of use to the United States of America.
.. them rotten British...[/quote]

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 18 Oct 2002 06:34

oleg wrote:why don't you go vist them during your summer vacation.

I'd like to eventually, especially Kubinka, but I only have so much money. Where do you live?

oleg wrote:
The Government of the United Kingdom will return to the United States of America at the end of the present emergency, as determined by the President, such defense articles transferred under this Agreement as shall not have been destroyed, lost or consumed and as shall be determined by the President to be useful in the defense of the United States of America or of the Western Hemisphere or to be otherwise of use to the United States of America.

.. them rotten British...

Now THERE'S something we can agree on. I think that the UK stiffed us as well.

Logan Hartke

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 19 Oct 2002 19:18

I move around I probaly could arange to get to the capital if you decide to go there.

British and Soviet vets of Northern Convoys in Murmansk

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Anthony EJW
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Post by Anthony EJW » 20 Oct 2002 02:14

Logan Hartke wrote:Now THERE'S something we can agree on. I think that the UK stiffed us as well.

Logan Hartke


Would you care to elaborate?

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 20 Oct 2002 02:47

LOL, I'm ticking everyone off now, aren't I? The UK has paid us back for all LL and given us the equipment that wasn't destroyed?

Logan Hartke

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Landser
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Post by Landser » 23 Oct 2002 01:43

What really won the war in
the EAST was 6 mill pair US combat boots,and 20 bill sheet of toilet paper the Ivans used mainly to roll their papyrozy in it!
Impressive list of items the Soviets needed,like they never had anything to start with.

In summary as follows


<<<<SUMMARY>>>>
MUNITIONS $4,651,582,000 NON-MUNITIONS 4,826,084,000 ---------------- Total 9,477,666,000

Note: the figure of $11 billion includes services as well as goods furnished.


The U.S. Government has never released detailed reports on what was sent in Lend-Lease, so Major Jordan's data, gleaned from the Russians' own manifests, is the only public record. More than one-third of Lend-Lease sent was illegal under the terms of the act which specifically prohibited "goods furnished for relief and rehabilitation purposes."
It should be kept in mind that Russia was an ally of Japan throughout the war, that it had been the ally of Hitler during the first two years of the war, that its division of Poland with Germany started the war, that it was an agressive imperialist force that attacked Finland and subverted the Baltic states as well, that it had announced that it intended to take over the world and that most of the aid sent in 1945 was sent after Stalin's February speech in which he said he would continue the war but against the United States.
Franklin Roosevelt's alter ego and Lend-Lease administrator Harry L. Hopkins, a KGB agent, declared to Russia before a crowd at Madison Square Garden on June 22, 1942, that: "We are determined that nothing shall stop us from sharing with you all that we have." He was not joking. >>>>>


As far as Russia is concernd I think the US has no prayer of getting ever reimbursed.Now GB is still only paying interest from WWI credits.

Now who is the fool in this endeavour,you be the judge?


PS even a KGB spy ran the show!
Hehe...

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 23 Oct 2002 09:43

look we have baby genious here ...

Anthony EJW
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Post by Anthony EJW » 23 Oct 2002 12:59

Logan Hartke wrote:LOL, I'm ticking everyone off now, aren't I? The UK has paid us back for all LL and given us the equipment that wasn't destroyed?

Logan Hartke


The US is still using those leased British bases in the atlantic, is it not?

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 23 Oct 2002 20:33

Anthony EJW wrote:
Logan Hartke wrote:LOL, I'm ticking everyone off now, aren't I? The UK has paid us back for all LL and given us the equipment that wasn't destroyed?

Logan Hartke


The US is still using those leased British bases in the atlantic, is it not?

LEASED?!?! We bought most of those islands from you with 99 destroyers. You guys got a bargain.

Logan Hartke

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 23 Oct 2002 20:52

The unfriendly tone displayed in several posts in this thread is completely unnecessary, so drop it.

/Marcus

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 23 Oct 2002 21:22

Sorry. Will do.

Logan Hartke

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