Imperial German Tunic

Discussions on Axis uniforms, headgear and insignia. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 18 Jun 2020 19:18

Could someone give me some information on this Imperial German tunic? The labal appears to be a Breslau tailor. Thanks!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 18 Jun 2020 19:19

More photos...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
von thoma
Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 03:40
Location: Spain

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by von thoma » 19 Jun 2020 02:58

A dress and parade tunic ( Waffenrock ) for an Infantry Regiment officer, according the shoulder boards* ( Leutnant /2nd Lieutenant )
The personal label is of private purchase. Formerly most Infantry Regiments in the German Imperial Army wore "Prussian blue" tunics
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 19 Jun 2020 14:43

von thoma wrote:
19 Jun 2020 02:58
A dress and parade tunic ( Waffenrock ) for an Infantry Regiment officer, according the shoulder boards* ( Leutnant /2nd Lieutenant )
The personal label is of private purchase. Formerly most Infantry Regiments in the German Imperial Army wore "Prussian blue" tunics
Thanks Von Thoma. Is this the Model 1907 or M1910 or something else? Is it Prussian or could it have been worn by an officer in any of the German states? Thanks

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 19 Jun 2020 15:02

Is the yellow on the shoulder boards infantry or cavalry?

User avatar
von thoma
Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 03:40
Location: Spain

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by von thoma » 20 Jun 2020 03:22

Is it Prussian or could it have been worn by an officer in any of the German states ?
Waffenrock 1867 Model

Infanterie (Infantry); Preußen - Dunkelblau (Dark Blue) and Bayern (Bavaria) - Hellblau (Light Blue)
Hellblau Waffenrock were worn by the majority of Dragoner (Mounted Infantry) Regiments (except Hessen), while Dark Green Waffenrock
were worn by Jäger (Light Infantry) Battalions.
Is the yellow on the shoulder boards infantry or cavalry ?
At this time, were not the same service colours than well known Wehrmacht Waffenfarbe branch colours.
The use of branch-specific colours did not have a long history, the Imperial Germany Army used coloured piping to represent State or Corps
affiliation to a greater degree than differentiating between branches, though limited usage with that intention did occur.
We do not know for sure if these shoulder boards correspond to this Waffenrock exactly, because I see a differentiation between the two
(the inside interlaced threads).The Yellow (Gold) underlay might to belong to any Infanterie-Regt, Füsilier-Regt, or Grenadier-Regt. of a
specific Armee Korps, because no numbers, letters, and cyphers helps us to identify with precision.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

history1
Member
Posts: 3870
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by history1 » 21 Jun 2020 20:47

Did you guys even read the labels? The first says "Kostüm-Verleih Zacher = costume rental Zacher".

User avatar
von thoma
Member
Posts: 4581
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 03:40
Location: Spain

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by von thoma » 22 Jun 2020 00:24

That explains why it is in that good condition, but it was certainly done by a military tailor, another thing is to determine when.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

history1
Member
Posts: 3870
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by history1 » 22 Jun 2020 09:33

You can goe through the address books of Breslau and look for clothes making companies or tailors resp. companies providing costume stuff. The lower label reads "Effecten" what one can translate as "requisitions". The word before might be "Musiker = Musician".

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 29 Jun 2020 15:54

von thoma wrote:
20 Jun 2020 03:22
Is it Prussian or could it have been worn by an officer in any of the German states ?
Waffenrock 1867 Model

Infanterie (Infantry); Preußen - Dunkelblau (Dark Blue) and Bayern (Bavaria) - Hellblau (Light Blue)
Hellblau Waffenrock were worn by the majority of Dragoner (Mounted Infantry) Regiments (except Hessen), while Dark Green Waffenrock
were worn by Jäger (Light Infantry) Battalions.
Is the yellow on the shoulder boards infantry or cavalry ?
At this time, were not the same service colours than well known Wehrmacht Waffenfarbe branch colours.
The use of branch-specific colours did not have a long history, the Imperial Germany Army used coloured piping to represent State or Corps
affiliation to a greater degree than differentiating between branches, though limited usage with that intention did occur.
We do not know for sure if these shoulder boards correspond to this Waffenrock exactly, because I see a differentiation between the two
(the inside interlaced threads).The Yellow (Gold) underlay might to belong to any Infanterie-Regt, Füsilier-Regt, or Grenadier-Regt. of a
specific Armee Korps, because no numbers, letters, and cyphers helps us to identify with precision.
Von Thoma. I appreciate your expertise, always! So this tunic is likely to be a Model 1867 Waffenrock for Prussian (or bavarian) Infantry? If those shoulder boards go with the tunic (they were in the pocket), what rank are they? Thanks you!

history1
Member
Posts: 3870
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by history1 » 29 Jun 2020 20:35

Porcelain44 wrote:
29 Jun 2020 15:54
[...]
Von Thoma. I appreciate your expertise, always! So this tunic is likely to be a Model 1867 Waffenrock for Prussian (or bavarian) Infantry? If those shoulder boards go with the tunic (they were in the pocket), what rank are they? Thanks you!
:lol: :lol:
Are you blind or do you only need a translator? This is a carneval costume! Dont´t you see that the epaulets have two different kind of color of sewing cotton?
Didn´t you read viewtopic.php?p=2275790#p2275790?

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 01 Jul 2020 19:18

history1 wrote:
29 Jun 2020 20:35
Porcelain44 wrote:
29 Jun 2020 15:54
[...]
Von Thoma. I appreciate your expertise, always! So this tunic is likely to be a Model 1867 Waffenrock for Prussian (or bavarian) Infantry? If those shoulder boards go with the tunic (they were in the pocket), what rank are they? Thanks you!
:lol: :lol:
Are you blind or do you only need a translator? This is a carneval costume! Dont´t you see that the epaulets have two different kind of color of sewing cotton?
Didn´t you read viewtopic.php?p=2275790#p2275790?
Firstly, there is no need to be insulting. Secondly, this tnic has a period maker's label sewn inside t, so it was originally manufactured as an Imperial German Army uniform. That it was subsequently used, after the war, by a costumier does not make it a movie or play prop. If you did some research, you would see that it was very common for wartime uniforms to be sold to costume houses after the war. In the minds of many collectors, the presence of such a stamp, from the era, validates its originality.

Regarding the shoulder boards -they were in the inside pocket of the tunic, not sewn onto it. You can see that in my photos. They may have nothing at all to do with the tunic and certainly would in no way be a definitive means of dating the tunic. They are separate items that may or may not have been together.

Thirdly, please learn some decency and mutual respect when you communicate with your fellow forum members.

Porcelain44
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 22:30

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by Porcelain44 » 01 Jul 2020 19:29

Porcelain44 wrote:
01 Jul 2020 19:18
history1 wrote:
29 Jun 2020 20:35
Porcelain44 wrote:
29 Jun 2020 15:54
[...]
Von Thoma. I appreciate your expertise, always! So this tunic is likely to be a Model 1867 Waffenrock for Prussian (or bavarian) Infantry? If those shoulder boards go with the tunic (they were in the pocket), what rank are they? Thanks you!
:lol: :lol:
Are you blind or do you only need a translator? This is a carneval costume! Dont´t you see that the epaulets have two different kind of color of sewing cotton?
Didn´t you read viewtopic.php?p=2275790#p2275790?
Firstly, there is no need to be insulting. Secondly, this tnic has a period maker's label sewn inside t, so it was originally manufactured as an Imperial German Army uniform. That it was subsequently used, after the war, by a costumier does not make it a movie or play prop. If you did some research, you would see that it was very common for wartime uniforms to be sold to costume houses after the war. In the minds of many collectors, the presence of such a stamp, from the era, validates its originality.

Regarding the shoulder boards -they were in the inside pocket of the tunic, not sewn onto it. You can see that in my photos. They may have nothing at all to do with the tunic and certainly would in no way be a definitive means of dating the tunic. They are separate items that may or may not have been together.

Thirdly, please learn some decency and mutual respect when you communicate with your fellow forum members.
A postscript: Research reveals that this Breslau tailor did, in deed, manufacture uniforms. Their specialty was uniforms for musicians and members of musical bands/troupes. When in the early 20th century they also made military uniforms.

history1
Member
Posts: 3870
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by history1 » 01 Jul 2020 21:33

Porcelain44 wrote:
01 Jul 2020 19:18
[...]
Thirdly, please learn some decency and mutual respect when you communicate with your fellow forum members.
Tell that to yourself, it was YOU who ignored information in several posts from a fellow forum member.

history1
Member
Posts: 3870
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Imperial German Tunic

Post by history1 » 01 Jul 2020 21:43

Porcelain44 wrote:
01 Jul 2020 19:29
[...] A postscript: Research reveals that this Breslau tailor did, in deed, manufacture uniforms. Their specialty was uniforms for musicians and members of musical bands/troupes.
Now you´re only parroting what I wrote in post #9.
Porcelain44 wrote:
01 Jul 2020 19:29
When in the early 20th century they also made military uniforms.
Source, please. Note that the forum rules do apply also to you and you´re obligated to provide your source according rule 6.2:
[...] Undocumented claims undercut the research purposes of this section of the forum. Consequently, it is required that proof be posted along with a claim. [...]
I´m waiting.

Return to “Axis Uniforms, Headgear & Insignia”