Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

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ww2collector1944
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Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by ww2collector1944 » 02 Sep 2020 03:05

Good afternoon,

I recently received this insignia as a gift and wanted to determine if it was authentic and also what type of insignia this is. It looks like a police cartouche for a dress ammunition pouch, although the pins are confusing me.

Any feedback is appreciated, I was thinking this could be related to the police or even water police. Thank you and have a great night.
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von thoma
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by von thoma » 02 Sep 2020 21:12

Sorry, but looking at some details, it looks like a copy of a Police Eagle pattern .....
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

ww2collector1944
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by ww2collector1944 » 04 Sep 2020 02:11

thanks for the information! I appreciate it. Have a great day

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Hans1906
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by Hans1906 » 04 Sep 2020 09:18

Good morning ww2collector1944,

if you google the terms "Polizei" and "Kartuschkasten", some photos show up,
and you will find some of the photos quite interesting...

You will also find interesting photos of the back of the eagle, which raise further questions about your piece..? :?

The originality of the eagle on the basis of your photos, I personally do not think it is possible, a comparable piece is not available here.
Reproductions or forgeries are widely known, sometimes in first-class quality.

Good luck for your further researches!

Hans1906

P.S. The Angolia book "German Police" might be very helpful, to sorry, not in my library.
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von thoma
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by von thoma » 04 Sep 2020 19:27

The Angolia book "German Police" might be very helpful, to sorry, not in my library.
Yes, I have both volumes...highly recommended.
The originality of the eagle on the basis of your photos, I personally do not think it is possible, a comparable piece is not available here.
A fine police "Kartuschkasten" eagle pattern example ;
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" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

ww2collector1944
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by ww2collector1944 » 09 Sep 2020 04:48

thank you all very much for your help. I greatly appreciate the insight. Moving forward I will be sure to purchase from an online dealer verses an antique store. This was actually a gift and still is a nice display nonetheless.

Thank you all again and have a great day.

Best,

JoeW
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by JoeW » 09 Sep 2020 05:45

von thoma wrote:
04 Sep 2020 19:27
The Angolia book "German Police" might be very helpful, to sorry, not in my library.
Yes, I have both volumes...highly recommended.
The originality of the eagle on the basis of your photos, I personally do not think it is possible, a comparable piece is not available here.
A fine police "Kartuschkasten" eagle pattern example ;
The eagle pattern you pictured above was used on both the decorative parade dress Kartouche Kasten and the Schutzhelm used by motorcycle riders and armored vehicle crew. Both aluminum/silver color and gold finish eagles are found and were used on both the Kasten and the helmets. All eagle provided for the Kasten were secured with three small D rings on the reverse of the eagle through which a leather piece was threaded. The eagles for the Sturz Helm (crash helmet) were made with three split brads on the reverse which enabled the eagle to be secured through the thick liner of the helmets.

The first volume of the Taylor-Angolia book suffers from poor organization and some inclusion of reproduction material and mis-information. But it is the only reference available in English. Deuster's book is in German only.

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Hans1906
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by Hans1906 » 10 Sep 2020 17:40

JoeW,

"The first volume of the Taylor-Angolia book suffers from poor organization and some inclusion of reproduction material and mis-information. But it is the only reference available in English."

Since this two-volume work still seems to be a "reference", is there a way to correct the errors it contains?

A concise example would be very interesting, which hopefully is possible?

Hans1906

JoeW
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Re: Police Insignia Identification/Authenticity

Post by JoeW » 10 Sep 2020 23:46

A number of items of my collection were included in the first volume. Reproductions and mis-information was particularly noticeable in the section on Mountain/Ski badges/awards. My volume is marked up with those errors I found, but to read the entire book is a monumental challenge. Are you wanting specific examples of errors as evidence of my statement?

We (other collectors and I) discussed with Hugh Page-Taylor offering an errata page, but the work never progressed. I still have a file folder with notes. Taylor did most of the work on the volume, of course with the assistance of the late Roger Bender. The second volume has some police but is mostly a volume on the TENO.

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