Uniform ID question

[RIfdo]

Hi everyone, hope I am posting this in the correct section/thread...

Attached is a photograph of my Great-Grandfather, dated October 1942. He is the man in the foreground on the left with the service cap. His right epaulette appears to have a strap or tab of some sort on it, which I haven't seen before. A short search of my own has turned up nothing, but it looks similar to the green leadership tabs I've seen worn during my own time in the US Army-perhaps it is something along those lines?

My only other thought is that, though the pic is blurry, it might be the number "40" as a unit identifier, which would make sense as he was assigned to Shützen-Ersatz-Bataillon (mot.) 40 for some time. I've just only ever seen the unit number sewn onto the straps, rather than the type of "slip on" tab that seems to be here.

Thanks for the help!

[Dennis Redler]

Hello,
This is from "German Army Uniforms and Insignia by Brian L. Davis"
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Dennis

[RIfdo]

Dennis,

This is so helpful! Many thanks for your quick reply. This is exactly why I joined the forum.

Thanks again,

Nick

[Sejanus]

I'm wondering if anyone can identify what information as to Ebehard Weiss's rank, unit and decorations that can be gleaned from this photo. He was apparently killed in 1945. For instance, does the epaulette configuration mean that he was in a reserve unit?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

Samuel

I do not believe there is any way to tell what particular army unit (reserve or otherwise) this individual was a member of going by the photo. No such identifying insignia is visible on the shoulder boards, and because the photo is black and white one cannot determine the color of the waffenfarbe (piping color on the collar tabs and shoulder boards indicating branch within the army).

The only thing that is unique are the light colored marking/strips placed near the center of the shoulder boards. They may perhaps be covering insignia so one cannot identify the unit represented underneath (if any). This was sometimes done for security reasons, although the examples I have seen were not such a light color (they were Feldgrau) and covered more of the shoulder boards than the ones in your photo do.

The strips may also show that the sergeant is an aspirant officer, this was represented by a double tresse crossing the shoulder board somewhat like the strips shown in your photo. Tresse is the wide trim seen around the collar and the shoulder board edges. However, the strips look like a very light color and don't match the tresse color on the rest of the uniform, so I don't know. And the strip appears to be perhaps a single one and not a double tresse, hard for me to tell from the photo.

The ribbon seen in the button hole indicates the sergeant was awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class, this is the only decoration on the uniform. Unless someone else with more knowledge can chime in about the light strips on the shoulder boards or something else I might have missed, this is about as far as we can go here. Have you tried researching his name? His first name may be Eberhard rather than "Ebehard." Weiss is also a Jewish last name, although perhaps not exclusively? Not that I care and certainly no offense intended, but due to the racial laws Jews were not allowed to serve in the Wehrmacht. Is the name you have confirmed?

A shame that he died so very young...

[John G.]

Not a "Thai National Army" soldier, Ost Volk (obviously very "Ost"), possibly one of the few Asian (Japanese, Korean, Thai, etc.) who were captured by the Russian, "impressed into their Army... then captured by the Germans and ended up as Ost volk. Notice German tunic, buttons, helmet, rifle and he has a "Gefreiter" chevron.
John G.

[wuiske]

Hello everyone,

I need help with the waffenrock worn by the two young men in this photo. A timeframe for the uniforms and hence the photo would be wonderful. I note the young man on the right has a pin/medal on his breast. Neither seems to have anything on the lapels, however the young man on the left has decoration of some sort on the collar.

Oral history passed in the family seems to indicate this photo may have been taken around Stolpe, Kreis Stolpe (near Leba) in the early 1880s, however I am beginning to doubt a reasonable amount of what has been "guessed" and supposed into the oral history for this family. I have tried to find information about these uniforms via google to no avail, however the closest I'd found is uniforms that were introduced in the 1900's. Note these ones do not have buttons - I think that probably sets them aside? I am beginning to think that instead of these being two brothers that are believed to have deserted the army and absconded to the US, perhaps it was family left behind in Pommern that sent them a photo many years after they were already in the US. I am desperately trying to find a location for this family so I'm very curious about any thoughts on these uniforms, thank you in advance!

[GregSingh]

Hi, both have M1915/16 type uniform, so it's unlikely pre-WWI photo.

[wuiske]

Hi Greg, thank you for your answer. Yes, I suspected this from my quick google search. Now that you have confirmed it I've searched more on the model number and found it's called a "Bluse" not a "Waffenrock" having taken over from the latter, and that it was issued in 1915 except in Bayern. So earliest is 1915 for this photo, as I expect it was taken in either Kreis Lauenburg or Kreis Stolpe based on what I know of the family. A good photo of one of these uniforms I've just managed to find here http://www.ir63.org/index.php?page=15
However, something I still don't know... what is the decoration on the collar of the left man and the pin/medal of the right man? Can anyone help?

[wuiske]

Further scrutiny indicates the award on the breast of the young man on the right is an Iron Cross 2nd Class likely received in 1914.

Still unable to find anything about the collar markings on the Bluse of the man on the left.

[shamirnewell]

Further scrutiny indicates the award on the breast of the young man on the right is an Iron Cross 2nd Class likely received in 1914.

Still unable to find anything about the collar markings on the Bluse of the man on the left.

They are called litzen they reflect branch of service depending on color.

[wuiske]

ok so two questions...

1. Is there a list of recipients for the Iron Cross 2nd Class in 1914/1915?

2. To me, having had a look through a number of photos of Litzen, it looks like it's a single Litze, not a Doppellitzen...


And then from the below image (entitled "Kragenlitzen der Deutschen Armee von ca. 1910 bis ca. 1915") it looks most like that Gren.-Reg.1,2,3,8 - whatever that means... But I don't even know if I'm looking at the correct references.


Without access to a better quality photo, and thus without access to magnifying the lapels to find the unit/division/company (sorry not sure the correct term), is there any way to deduce any identifying features from these boys' uniforms to aid me in identifying them?

One other question, slightly off topic, is there any documentation about deserters from the army? Long story short, trying to find the names of parents for a man who was "climbing the ranks" presumedly in Stolpe, Kreis Stolpe, (perhaps in Kreis Lauenburg where I believe his parents to be from), applied for vacation leave to visit his wife's sisters in America but never came back? That was in 1891. The oral history in the family describes how fearful of being found, extradited and executed for deserting the Prussian army he never spoke of his family, and thus his death certificate (unfortunately his wife preceded him) does not offer his parents' names either. The photo that I posted above actually came from a photo album in his family, and was long assumed to be a photo of him with his parents and siblings taken in Stolpe.

[wuiske]

I have literally just received info that this photo was taken by Rudolf Maleck - Stolp - Bahmhofstr 17. Not sure if that helps

[Blacksuri]

The attached photo is of 2 distant relatives of mine.

I have searched various websites trying to discover what uniforms they might be wearing, but with no success. I asked a relative who lives in Germany, and he said "It seems to me that the picture was taken before 1939 (start of war) and that both belonged to lower ranks at the time this pic was taken."

Unfortunately, the picture is not clear enough to see any rank or insignia.

[von thoma]

NPEA instructors ?

[Blacksuri]

von thoma wrote, "NPEA instructors ?"

Thanks, I believe you are correct. Their uniforms look exactly like this:

http://www.ww2sale.com/wwii-german-npea ... sn001.html