Post WWII East German Helmet

Discussions on Axis uniforms, headgear and insignia. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
Post Reply
User avatar
Roddoss72
Member
Posts: 1367
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 06:44
Location: Australia

Post WWII East German Helmet

#1

Post by Roddoss72 » 24 Nov 2005, 03:57

I was wondering if someone could help me with a burning issue, i was told that the traditional coalscuttle helmet that the Germans used during WWi and WWII were going to be replaced by the post WWII East German Helmet in 1946 or 1947 had the war gone that far for the Germans i just want to know if this was true, as i have one at home and i want to Nazify it with decals i have bought, but i want it to look pseudo authentic. I would apreciate any assistance in the matter.

Regards Roddoss72

Ian Hulley
Member
Posts: 2618
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 13:00
Location: Derbyshire,UK.

#2

Post by Ian Hulley » 24 Nov 2005, 11:31

The Model 1945 helmet was developed and trialed by the Wehrmacht but never issued on any scale (if at all).An accurate impression of a IIIrd Reich period M45 would have no decals ... none were authorised by this point in the war. The DDR adopted this style of helmet as their own and used it for many years.

Hope this helps,Ian.


User avatar
vonDunkelheit
Member
Posts: 287
Joined: 28 Sep 2005, 01:33
Location: New Jersey

#3

Post by vonDunkelheit » 24 Nov 2005, 17:17

what did this helmet look like?

User avatar
Ingsoc75
Member
Posts: 1085
Joined: 06 Apr 2004, 19:28
Location: Rocket City

#4

Post by Ingsoc75 » 28 May 2006, 21:04

The site linked below says that it is the M44/45 helmet:

http://mipierru.club.fr/casqueproto44_45.html

Polygon
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 00:36
Location: Earth

#5

Post by Polygon » 28 May 2006, 21:50

As a matter of fact, I just saw an auction on eBay for what the buyer claimed was an early East German helmet, but had " II/58" marking on the inside rim.

netviperx
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 01:51
Location: USA

#6

Post by netviperx » 02 Jun 2006, 02:18

Not that I'm an expert, but I am about 85% sure that this helmet was a result of east germany being a communist block country after the war, so this helmet was modeled to heavily resemble the Russian helmet of the time. I read somewhere that the Germans in mid-war actually developed and tested a "*Pot" helmet similar to US helmets of the period (because of how cheap and easy they are to make in comparison to a stahlhelm which took a lot of work), but it was rejected immediately by Hitler due to its not having the characteristic "german" helmet appearance. It was also inferior in the area of protection due to the fact that it didnt cover the head as well. The original "stahlhelm" was a very effective design that would be hard pressed to improve on, thats why the US helmets today look almost identicle to German stahlhelms. Maximum protection without being bulky. The old pot helmets where very bulky yet so thin that they provided no real protection.

Just for the record I have seen loads of period photos of German troops wearing every type of helmet immaginable, but never once have I seen a photo of one wearing an east german type. I would have a hard time believing this is a war time helmet due to its heavy resembleance to a russia helmet. I'm pretty sure Hitler had way to much pride to have his troops looking like the russians he hated so much. Hitler was very keep on appearances, imagery being one of his biggest lures. If the Wehrmacht did produce this helmet, I'd bet the reason it was never issued is because Hitler hated its appearance.

Anyways, dont take this as absolute fact, Im no genius on the issue, and could easily be wrong.

*This pot helmet they reffered too in the book may have been this M45 "east german" style helmet, but unlikely, since this seemed to be in the area of 1942. It said that after Hitler rejected it, they went on to simplify the existing helmet instead by leaving off the rolled edge resulting in the M42 model helmet.

User avatar
new2this
Member
Posts: 328
Joined: 21 Jul 2004, 07:28
Location: US of A

#7

Post by new2this » 03 Jun 2006, 06:32

I hope this helps. I found the following on a website about a year and a half ago. I don't remember the name of the website, I'm sorry to say, but I found it interesting and saved the article as an MSword file. Perhaps this can shed some light on the situation.THE EAST GERMAN HELMET

East German NVA Stahlhelm: Historical development.

The East German Military Helmet has origins that can be traced all the way back to 1939, and to the Wehrmacht invasion of Poland. The Iron and Steel Specialty Division of the Third Reich Research Council undertook a study at that time, of the ballistic characteristics inherent to various military helmets of armies of several different countries. The Reich Institute For Defense Technology was tasked with this study, and two Professors, Dr. FRY and Dr. HAENSEL were instrumental in securing examples of different helmets from different countries for the test. These helmets, along with the Wehrmacht’s own M35 Stahlhelm, were tested with small arms ammunition fired from a multitude of angles and distances, for research purposes relevant penetration characteristics. The British “Tommy” helmet fared the worst. However, the Wehrmacht’s own M35 also was found to have serious shortcomings. Finding none of the helmets in current use by the different armies of the world to be satisfactory, the Reich Institute undertook steps to design an all together new helmet with the ballistic characteristics sought after. Several prototype helmets for testing were produced by the Voelkingen Stahlwerke. Upon completion of the tests in 1942, the results were provided to the Army Weapons Office. Despite objections by Hitler, this office, under the auspices of a memoranda generated by the Army Medical Inspectorate, went ahead and authorized production of a new pattern combat helmet. The passing of the memorandum was due in part to increasing pressure on the Army Weapons Office to find a solution to the ever increasing number of serious head wounds received by wearers of the M35 and the M42; and to encompass design changes that would address the increasingly scarce supply of necessary materials and labor required for production of the current M35/42 helmet. The M35/42 models were both very expensive to produce, and labor intensive. Subsequently, a total of four prototypes were designed, which were designated A, B, BII, and C. The latter 3 represented major departures from the M35/42 design. After preliminary testing, models B and BII were approved for further testing. Orders were then placed with the Eisen und Huettenwerke for production of no less than 50 examples of each type. They were referred to as the Thale/Harz helmets after their designers. The Helmets were then sent to the Doeblitz Infantry School outside of Berlin, where they were then put through rigorous “Hands-on” testing in a true field environment with Infantry Units at the school. The helmets subsequently proved to be of sound design for wear and use, and were far superior in ballistics to any helmet then made. It was only then that Hitler was approached with the final results of the research program that had gone on for several years without his knowledge. Both helmet designs, B and BII were presented to him in the autumn of 1944 for his approval of one or the other. The new helmet was to be designated the M45. Remarkably, Hitler took no action against anyone for the tests that had gone on behind his back. He did however reject both helmets, doing so on the principal that the current M35/42 in his eyes, best exemplified the German Soldier. His decision was based entirely on his own perception of how countries with whom the Wehrmacht was at war, viewed the German Soldier in Uniform. He felt the M35/42 best exemplified that look. Not surprisingly, memoirs recorded in diaries of some Soviet soldiers suggest the new helmets given to the Infantry School on the outskirts of Berlin for testing, received their baptism of fire when Soviet Forces first entered the Berlin Capital in the Spring of 1945. Reportedly, Russian Troops encountered two Infantry Companies from the Doeblitz Infantry School. The Dresden Museum has in its NVA Display, an example of a model BII Stahlhelm, believed to be a survivor of the last ditch effort by the Wehrmacht against the Russians, as they unsuccessfully strove to fend off the invaders as they entered Berlin.

After the division of the two German states, and the designation of East Germany as a separate country in 1949, a seemingly new type helmet already had appeared, which was worn in limited numbers by the Barracks Police, or KVP. It actually was based upon the model A Stahlhelm and therefore resembled the M35/42. It, together with the Khaki type uniform then worn by the KVP, proved to be problematic with the East German Populace, who found it too closely resembled the uniform of the hated Soviet Military. Consequently in 1956, with the transformation of the KVP into the new National Volkes Army (NVA), the newly established NVA Rear-Services Administration and Office of Technology was ordered to develop a new helmet deemed suitable for an East German “Socialist” Armed Forces. It could not have physical characteristics associated with either the Wehrmacht M35/42 or the Russian helmet. Consequently the Model A helmet then being worn by the KVP was rejected. Yet the helmet still needed to project the “National” character of East Germany. It suddenly dawned on all, that the helmet in question had already been designed, and tested. And, the factory for producing the helmet already existed, with all the necessary tools and die. It just so happened that the Head Engineer appointed to and tasked with the development of the new NVA helmet was Erich KIESEN. Ironically, he had been affiliated with Eisen und Huettenwerke, which had produced the model B and BII helmets formerly approved by the Wehrmacht Army Weapons Office, but rejected by Hitler. Hitler’s rejection now proved paramount and profound, because it paved the way for acceptance of that helmet without connotations of it being associated with the “Fascist” Wehrmacht Army. Better yet, no monies were necessary for research, design and/or testing. The helmet had already been designed, researched and tested thoroughly, and had passed with flying colors on all accounts. Even better was the fact that Engineer KIESEN was the holder of former patents for an improved helmet liner with a new “Y” type chin-strap and ventilation bushings meant for the M35/42, but never implemented. With modifications, the Model B and BII could be quickly fitted with that liner. But most prophetic of all, was the good fortune that the factory in question was completely intact and located on East German soil. The BII subsequently was selected for production over the model B. So it was that in Jan 1956, production of the model BII was resumed. The new helmet was introduced to the East German Public via photographs published that February in a magazine for the German Youth, or FDJ. The new helmet was officially introduced at the introduction ceremony of the NVA on May 1st, in Berlin. It was painted in a “Stone Grey” matte and bore a Tri-color Shield on one side in Black, Red and Gold.

Eventually, the helmet under the direction of Gen. Willi Stoph, went through more rigorous testing, resulting in superficial design modifications over the passing years - the removal of the “Rivets” being one of the later design modification improvements. In principal however, the helmet was found to be superior to anything then being fielded by any army anywhere. Not until the advent of the Kevlar Helmet by the U.S. Military, did a helmet surpass the ballistic qualities endowed to the NVA Stahlhelm, officially designated the M-1956. In 1957 the helmet entered production in earnest in three sizes (60m, 64m and 68m). By September of that same year, 50,000 helmets had been produced and issued to NVA Troops. By years end, all NVA Troops had the helmet. The entire process – development to production and issue, was accomplished in a single year. Also in 1957, the first “Resin” or plastic NVA helmets were produced for issue to and wear by special elite or honor guard troops.

It should be noted that the first production helmets had a liner similar to the M-42, but were configured with a double “Y” chin-strap. Consequently, any NVA Stahlhelm found to be configured with an M-42 type liner and the single type adjustable chinstrap, could very well be an example of a model B or BII produced during the era of the Wehrmacht. The “Rivets” of course should be found to be positioned lower on the helmet than on subsequent 1956 production models.

User avatar
Sewer King
Member
Posts: 1711
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 05:35
Location: northern Virginia

#8

Post by Sewer King » 07 Jun 2006, 20:53

A very interesting write-up. I have read the late-war development of what became the NVA stahlhelm in the German Steel Helmet history published by Angolia, but not the postwar decisions that helped its adoption.

At least during the Cold War, there seems to have been some mistaken belief that the NVA helmet was a deliberate blend of the German and Soviet designs. This was in at least one old book by Floyd Tubbs, Stahlhelm (self-published, 1971), but the author did stress that the East German soldier was to have a specific identity with this helmet. I suppose the errors of older books have to be looked at like those of the war movies.

Tubbs' diagram of the NVA helmet showed the older Y-straps, but also a cork lining for the shell. Is or was that correct? Seems unlikely to me.

User avatar
Luft300
Member
Posts: 1007
Joined: 08 May 2005, 19:21
Location: Wisconsin

#9

Post by Luft300 » 07 Jun 2006, 22:41

[quote="netviperx"]Not that I'm an expert, but I am about 85% sure that this helmet was a result of east germany being a communist block country after the war, so this helmet was modeled to heavily resemble the Russian helmet of the time. I read somewhere that the Germans in mid-war actually developed and tested a "*Pot" helmet similar to US helmets of the period (because of how cheap and easy they are to make in comparison to a stahlhelm which took a lot of work), but it was rejected immediately by Hitler due to its not having the characteristic "german" helmet appearance. It was also inferior in the area of protection due to the fact that it didnt cover the head as well. The original "stahlhelm" was a very effective design that would be hard pressed to improve on, thats why the US helmets today look almost identicle to German stahlhelms. Maximum protection without being bulky. The old pot helmets where very bulky yet so thin that they provided no real protection.

Just for the record I have seen loads of period photos of German troops wearing every type of helmet immaginable, but never once have I seen a photo of one wearing an east german type. I would have a hard time believing this is a war time helmet due to its heavy resembleance to a russia helmet. I'm pretty sure Hitler had way to much pride to have his troops looking like the russians he hated so much. Hitler was very keep on appearances, imagery being one of his biggest lures. If the Wehrmacht did produce this helmet, I'd bet the reason it was never issued is because Hitler hated its appearance.

Anyways, dont take this as absolute fact, Im no genius on the issue, and could easily be wrong.

*This pot helmet they reffered too in the book may have been this M45 "east german" style helmet, but unlikely, since this seemed to be in the area of 1942. It said that after Hitler rejected it, they went on to simplify the existing helmet instead by leaving off the rolled edge resulting in the M42 model helmet.[/quote]

I too am not a helmet expert but one of the major strengths of the German helmet in comparison to the US helmet was it's low center of gravity. Whenever a US soldier would jump out of a half-track for example, if the helmet wasn't strapped on it would come off of the soldier's head. The German helmet's low center of gravity made it sit lower on the soldier's head and it stayed with him in these situations.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Luft300

User avatar
MacX
Member
Posts: 291
Joined: 24 Jun 2004, 16:37
Location: Germany

#10

Post by MacX » 08 Jun 2006, 18:01

netviperx wrote:"*Pot" helmet similar to US helmets of the period (because of how cheap and easy they are to make in comparison to a stahlhelm which took a lot of work)
I read that there were several more steps necessary to produce the M1 helmet than the German steel helmet.

However, the East German steelhelmet doesn't resemble the russian one at all.
The russian helmet looks round, "pot style" as you say, just like the american one.
The east German helmet hast a similar cut as the WH helmet but very flattened in order to reject shrapnels.

User avatar
egon
Member
Posts: 347
Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 02:12
Location: Australia
Contact:

#11

Post by egon » 18 Jul 2006, 15:50

On a side note- The US army, when developing a replacement for it's old "brit" style helmet, designed a number of prototypes for assessment. The one that passed testing and proved the most superior was the model that closely resembled the German M18/35 "stahlhelm" (the shell pattern, not the liner system). Needless to say, at that time, it was considered risky to issue US troops with a helmet similar to the type worn by an Army that the Govt. expected to combat in the "near future". This may be related to the eventual adoption of the Nato kevlar helmet in the 1980's.

Post Reply

Return to “Axis Uniforms, Headgear & Insignia”