Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Tosun Saral
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Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby Tosun Saral » 18 May 2017 18:43

A VERY INTERESTING NEWS ABOUT NORFOLK REGIMENT THAT WAS LOST IN GALLIPOLI that I found recently in an Hungarian News paper called Pester Lloyd dated Jan. 12th 1916. It is in German but I add google translation .

xxxxxGermanxxxxxxxx
Aus Norfolk wird Londoner Blättern gemeldet,daß unter der dortigen Bevölkerung große Unruhe herrsche, da aus Hamiltons Bericht hervorgehe, daß von den 260 Mann des Norfolkbataillons, die sich am 12. August an einem Bajonettangriff auf Anafarta abeteiligten, kein Mensch weiter etwas gehört habe. Darunter waren die Pächter und Jäger des königlichen Landsitzes zu Sandringham. Das letzte,was man weiß, ist, daß sie in einen Wald eindrangen. Aber da keiner wiederkehrte, fürchte man, daß sie alle gefallen seien. König Georg hat wiederholt Untersuchungen auch durch die amerikanische Botschaft eingeleitet, ob das Bataillon vielleicht kriegsgefangen sei. Aber außer dem unbestätigten Gerücht, daß zwei Offiziere und 12 Mann verwundet als Kriegsgefangene nach Konstantinopel gebracht wurden, ist Nickis bekannt geworden.


xx Englishxxx
From Norfolk it is reported to London's papers that there is great disquiet among the population there, as Hamilton's report shows that of the 260 men of the Norfolk battalion, who had a bayonet attack on Anafarta (Suvla) on Aug. 12th no one had heard anything further. Among them were the tenants and hunters of the royal country seat at Sandringham. The last thing you know is that they are penetrating a forest. But as no one returned, they were afraid that they had all fallen. King George has repeatedly conducted investigations through the American Embassy, whether the battalion might be a prisoner of war. But besides the unconfirmed rumor that two officers and twelve men were wounded as prisoners of war to Constantinople, Nickis has become known.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby Sheldrake » 18 May 2017 22:11

This is quite well known.
An acquaintance of mine Julian Jarrold, made a film about "All the King's men" in 1999.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_K ... (1999_film)
Here is a you tube about the action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeMy-B8oZgg

Leros87
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby Leros87 » 19 May 2017 15:04

Details of the action, taken from the War Diary, as follows:
1/5 Norfolks advanced in two lines on the Brigade's right (163 Brigade, 54th (East Anglian) Division) towards the Kuckak Anafarta Ova. Shortly after starting the order came to change direction of advance to the right, resulting in the battalion advancing quicker than its supporting units and becoming separated from each other in the increasingly broken and wooded terrain. Despite this the CO with about 16 officers and 250 men continued the advance until they disappeared. Among these were many from the half company formed from the King's Sandringham Estate (at the outset of the War many TA battalions were still organised into 8 companies, which were soon reorganised into 4 companies by doubling the original companies). Casualties that day were 11 officers and 122 men dead (including the CO), 5 officers and 130 men missing believed dead, 2 officers and 12 men captured and 5 officers and 40 men wounded. Capt F Beck was the OC Sandringham Coy and recorded as dead.

The film referred to above may be generally accurate (despite 2 characters looking over to Troy) the evening before - an impossibility given the location of Suvla!

Hope this helps.

stevebecker
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby stevebecker » 20 May 2017 00:34

Mate,

Much is made of the lack of prisoners during this fight, and the Turks were not inclined to take prisoners.

While this is very true it was not that unusall, as they had did it more then once, as we our self had done more then once.

I have been looking at a Light Horse fight on Bloody Ridge (7 August 1915) where the 1st LHR gain three Turkish trenches, and a fight went on for some hours, till we were forced to retire.

Numbers of wounded and men remained to cover this retirement, but none were ever seen again, all were killed.

Its a sad fact that soldiers in that position can expect little mercy from there enemies, and all sides fought to win, and taking prisoners was a luxury most could not afford.

S.B

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Sheldrake
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby Sheldrake » 20 May 2017 09:12

stevebecker wrote:Its a sad fact that soldiers in that position can expect little mercy from there enemies, and all sides fought to win, and taking prisoners was a luxury most could not afford.



Very true. but there were also ethnic, religious and cultural differences that may have left each side less well disposed to taking prisoners than when captor and prisoner were from similar backgrounds.

stevebecker
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby stevebecker » 21 May 2017 00:08

Mate,

While I am sure these did play some part "also ethnic, religious and cultural differences".

I can't believe these were the main reason.

For those of us who have charged an enemy position, weather the man on the other side was muslim or Christian made no difference. The only reason was him firing at you and your mates.

And until that fire stopped and he gave up in some way to take away the fear of getting killed, then all on the other side were at risk.

Anyone not getting their arms up quick enough or what we believe was quick enough got the chop.

When your filled with fear, exhausted and hot from running and fighting then the "ethnic, religious and cultural differences" go out the window, and all you want to do is stop and have a beer. But the bugger of the other side keeps shooting at you?

S.B

antwony
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby antwony » 21 May 2017 12:22

Sheldrake wrote:This is quite well known.


Yes, very much so.

Apologies for being a grammar-nazi, but the thread title doesn't make sense.

Never really understood the use of articles in German myself. So this isn't something I should be pontificating on; but it should be 260 men of a battalion of the Royal Norfolk Regiment.

The only place where the British Army can lose an infantry regiment is in Whitehall (or wherever).

To be somewhat relevant, they were a hard luck regiment, the Royal Norfolks. They had a battalion at Kut, their "missing" at Gallipoli, the members of the BEF murdered by the SS at La Paradis were them and they had 3 battalions at Singapore.

P.S. Yes, I am aware that using the word pontificate makes me an a***hole.

turcoscot
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Re: Norfolk, a Regiment lost in Gallipoli

Postby turcoscot » 02 Jun 2017 04:07

Interesting this keeps popping up. The definitive treatment of this is the paper by Tim Travers and Birten Celik, "Not one of them ever came back: What happened to the 1/5 Norfolks Battalion", The Journal of Military History 66 (2), April 2002, p.389. This paper use both Turkish and British sources to piece together a pretty credible account of what happened.


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