Ottoman Air units

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby stevebecker » 14 Jul 2017 02:55

Mates,

Found this German officer Lt Ludwig Keiper who has some interesting Ottoman Air units in his history, so far I am unsure what units these are?

observer Ottoman Flying Battalion 1 Dardanelle 1 Nov 1915 to 18 Feb 1916

observer Ottoman Flying Battalion 2 Baghdad 19 Feb 1916 to 15 Oct 1916

Adjt to Chief of Air Affairs Turkey 16 Oct 1916 to 15 Dec 1916

Instructor at Flying School at San Stafano 16 Dec 1916 to Sep 1918

Leader of 15th Flying Battalion Turkey Sept 1918 to Oct 1918

Commander of Flying Ottoman 3rd Army Oct 1918 to Oct 1918

I think the 1st Flying Battalion may refer to the 1st Sqn or Company so the 2nd Flying Bn would be the 2nd Sqn or Company and the 15th Flying Bn would be the 15th Sqn or Company?

Cheers

S.B

Philip Loftus
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Philip Loftus » 31 Oct 2017 02:55

Ottoman defensive line Gaza 1917. A captured photo taken by an RFC BE2c (?) which was forced down subsequently before completing the mission.

Photo courtesy Ottoman Imperial Archives FB pps.

Steve,

Flak or an Ottoman aircraft? Presumably the BE would have been operating from el Kantara or some forward position. Well known story?

The BE2c is at Wadi Hamdh.
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Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 31 Oct 2017 15:15

7th Sqn : 7'nci Tayyare Bölüğü of the 3rd Army was established in Erzincan with 2 german pilots and Turkish pilots ( I dont know how many Turks were at the Sgn) had a Gotha and Albatros planes. After fall of Erzincan the Sgn was taken to Suşehri.

10th Sqn: 10'ncu Tayyare Bölüğü of 2nd Army. On Sept. 26th 1916 germans arrived at Islahiye (today at Syrian-Iraki border) with 4 planes. But in 1916 thet had no flights. on 1917 they bebun to fly.

12th Sqn: 12'nci Tayyare Bölüğü of 6tha Army at Irak. After beginning of Iran expedition a section of 2nd Sqn at Bagdad joined to 13rd AC at Hanikin under the name of "Hanikin Flight Detechment (Hanikin Tayyare Müfrezesi) on 7.7.1916. The detachmentwas renamed 12nd Sqn (12'nci Tayyare Bölüğü) on 31.81916. Sqn was commanded by germans and also had Turkish pilots and navigators.

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby stevebecker » 01 Nov 2017 23:55

Tosun,

Thank you.

I am still not sure about the 12'nci Tayyare Bölüğü and the 13'nci Tayyare Bölüğü, as there moves appear close to each other.

I think they combined later in the war or with the 2'nci Tayyare Bölüğü during the period when aircraft maintence failed to keep the planes flying.

Cheers

S.B

Philip Loftus
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Philip Loftus » 03 Nov 2017 06:00

Thanks Tosan.

So far only can find these pps from WW1 Companion.

Cheers
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stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby stevebecker » 03 Nov 2017 22:59

Mate,

So far I have identified some 174 German airmen with the Ottoman forces or in the German Jasta's in Palestine, none are shown with the 3rd Sqn. While some 28 Turkish airmen I show so far served with the 3rd Sqn.

I don't think Germans were sent down to Medina due to the religion that no non muslim being allowed near Mecca.

The crack KUK Sgt mentioned is unknown and one for Tosun to confirm

The only one I know of is;

Souchin Max pilot Airforce 4th Sqn 12-17 to 7-18 possibly to 9th Squadron 1918 Lt Austrian Istanbul based Sqn at Yesilköy - Austrian pilot att Ottoman Airforce

Even the Sqn's flying around Amman were all Ottoman while only 1 German Jasta was close to that area.

Any way so far I can't find any, which most Ottoman Sqn were a mix of German and Turkish airmen, but not the 3rd Sqn.

But I am open to conjecture here.

There are the known 3rd Sqn airmen

Ahmet Kamil Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 Lt
Ahmet Zeki Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Cemil or Cemal Bey observer Airforce OC 3rd Sqn 6-16 to 10-16 Capt
Cevdet Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 3-17 Lt
Emin Nihat Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to Caucasus Sgt to Lt
Fakir Hasim Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 Lt
H. Murat Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Hasan Fehmi Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to PoW Sgt to Lt PoW 10-18
Hasan Hulki Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Hüseyin Hüsnü Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Ihya Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Sgt
Ismail Zeki Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to PoW Sgt to Lt PoW 4-2-18
Izzettin Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn to OC 3rd Sqn 6-17 to 8-18 Capt
Lütfi Fikri Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 3-17 Lt
Lutfullah Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 3-17 Lt
M. Kemal Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-16
Mehmet Cemal Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 Maj
Mehmet Fazil Bey pilot Airforce 1st Sqn 1915 to 2nd Sqn & OC 3rd Sqn 10-16 to 6-17 & OC 9th Sqn 12-16 (TBC)? & 12th Sqn dates? Lt to Capt WIA 25-10-18
Orhan Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 to 8-18 Lt
Osman Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 Lt
Osman Nuri Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Rifat Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 6-16 to 12-16 Lt
Saim Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 10-16 to killed Lt KIA 26-11-16 or 2-10-16
Sakir Fevzi Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn possibly 6-16 Lt
Salih Bey observer Airforce Adjt 3rd Sqn 11-17 to T/OC 3rd Sqn 8-18 to 9-18 Lt
Zeki pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 1917 Sgt
Ziya Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt

These are the known details on 3rd Sqn

3rd Sqn - formed (5x Pfalz A2) at Istambul 6-16 to (3x Pfalz A2) Damascus 7-16 to Medina 10-16 shown (4x Albatros B1 & 4x Rumpler B3 + 2x unknown) at Maan 12-16 to (5x Albatross C3 + 1x Pfalz A2) 3-17 to (1x Albatross C3 + 3x Rumpler C1 at Maan) ( 1x Albatross C3 + 1x Rumpler C1 at Dera (1x Albatross C3 + 2x Rumpler C1) at Damascus (3x Albatross C3 & Rumpler C1 remain Medina) 8-17

I can't see any Fokkers moved to this Sqn , there was with Jasta 300 (FA 300) which was around Beersheba late 1916 and 17, which had two Fokkers, but there maintenance was hard to keep up and they were rearly serviceable.

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 04 Nov 2017 12:19

Our friend Altay Atlı mentions this austrian pilot Max souchin in his"Turkey in the First World War - Air Defense".I never heard or knew that a single or more Kuk pilots served in Turkish fronts.

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby stevebecker » 10 Nov 2017 02:39

Tosun,

Do you know if these are the same man or brothers?

Hüseyin Han Bey (Iranian) observer Airforce 14th Sqn Capt

Mustafa Han Bey (Iranian) observer Airforce 14th Sqn Capt

I was thinking they were brothers?

Other 14th Sqn airman

Hasan Fehmi Bey (Bursa) pilot Airforce 14th Sqn possibly 3-18 Sgt

Hüseyin Haki Bey observer Airforce 14th Sqn Lt

Sabri Bey pilot Airforce 14th Sqn Sgt

Salim Bey observer Airforce 14th Sqn Lt

Siya Bey (Shardag) observer Airforce 14th Sqn Lt

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 10 Nov 2017 16:55

Ziya Bey (Şardağ) retired from air force as a colonel. wounded and taken POW by british.
Thats all

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby stevebecker » 11 Nov 2017 01:33

Tosun,

Thank you

Do you have any more on Ziya Bey (Şardağ)?

Where was he wounded and captured?

I also show two men by the name of;

Ziya Bey Lt pilot Airforce 2nd Sqn Mesopotamia 1915

Ziya Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt (possibly to 14th Sqn 1918)?

Are they the same man or different men?

I wonder as they are shown as a pilot in 1915 while the other two show an observer in 1918 when captured?

So possibly two different men

Ziya appears to be a common Islamic name, these are just some I have on my lists;

Ziya Bey 5th Res Cavalry Regt Hasankale Maj
Ziya Bey Commander of Mecca Maj
Ziya Bey cooking officer 61st Regt Capt
Ziya Bey observer Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 Lt
Ziya Bey pilot Airforce 2nd Sqn Lt
Ziya Bey staff 9th Corps 1914 Capt
Ziya Bey Staff officers 3rd Corps Maj
Ziya Bey 39th Artillery Regt 10-16
Maj
Ziya Bey Chief of Engineers - 3rd Corps Maj
Ziya Bey (Yergök) 83rd Regt - Maj WIA PoW 12-14 at Sarikamis
Ziya Efendi Artillary Comdr Libya/Trablusgarb Capt
Ziya Efendi 27th Regt - 3Bn Lt
Ziya Pasa (Kutnak) 10th Corps (3rd Army 1914) 8-14 to 12-14 Col

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 11 Nov 2017 11:56

Do you have any more on Ziya Bey (Şardağ)?

Where was he wounded and captured?
Sorry I searched and found nothing more

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 11 Nov 2017 12:24

Emin Nihat Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to Caucasus Sgt to Lt
Major General Emin Nihat Sözeri (Şumnu/Today Bulgaria. Shumen) 1893- 1978
Governer of Diyarbakır during 1950-52
War Academy the Harbiye: Engeneer Lt 1914
Joined to new air force in 1915. Served at 7. Tayyare Bölügü at Kaucasus front and later Sina Palestia. Retired in 1946
You say that he was a NCO but all information says that he graduated from the Harbiye. A strange examble. One of the few.
Last edited by Tosun Saral on 11 Nov 2017 12:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Waleed Y. Majeed
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Waleed Y. Majeed » 11 Nov 2017 12:33

Some more pictures of planes, pilots,
operations, AA-units and much more.
http://www.turkeyswar.com/index.html

w

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 11 Nov 2017 12:41

Ismail Zeki Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to PoW Sgt to Lt PoW 4-2-18

Sgt İsmail Zeki Efendi graduated from Yeşilköy Pilot training school in 1916. After British POW he joined the national forces of Mustafa Kemal Pasha. I found his name on 1920 list of pilots. No more information. He must be dead before the Turkish civil Law. for that reason no famii name.

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Postby Tosun Saral » 11 Nov 2017 12:54

Hasan Fehmi Bey pilot Airforce 3rd Sqn 11-17 to PoW Sgt to Lt PoW 10-18
Graduated from Yeşilköy Training School in 1917. The source "Havacılık Tarihinde Türkler" (Turks in Aivation History) p.vol.1,p.290 says that he is from Bursa. But "Havada Veciki 1/4 Asır (Vecihi Hürkuş on the aviation A 1/4 Years of Life in aviation) p.64 says he is from Maltepe/İstanbul.
After POW he also joined to the National Forces ofMustafa Kemal Pasha


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