who is this Ottoman officer

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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who is this Ottoman officer

Post by stevebecker » 26 Nov 2018 00:05

Mates,

I known this man but can't remember his name, can you help?

The caption shows General Chaytor and the Ottoman officer as Ali Bey Wahaby 4th Army

The situation was very difficult owing to large numbers of Arabs who surrounded the Turkish position intent upon looting. Any sign of a white flag was likely to precipitate matters, and the 2nd L.H. Brigade were despatched to Kastal. While they were coming up the Turkish Staff Officer formally agreed to a surrender of the whole force to General Chaytor; and Captain A. B. T. Rhodes, M.C., the Divisional Commander’s A.D.C. pluckily penetrated the Turkish lines in a motor car and brought out the Turkish General, Kaimakam Ali Bey Whahaby, as a hostage.
Upon its arrival the 2nd L.H. Brigade put a cordon round the Turks; and the Arabs were told that any attempt to rush in on the Turks would be met by force. Even after our troops were in position the Arabs attempted to get at the hospital and had to be driven off.

So who he is I can't find?

Any ideas?

S.B
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Tosun Saral
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by Tosun Saral » 27 Nov 2018 13:10

He is not a general and commander of 4th Army but an mounted artillery Lt.Col. Kaimakam or Kaymakam means Lt. Col. Never heard of him.an Arab officer deserted to British awarded with iron cross.

stevebecker
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by stevebecker » 27 Nov 2018 22:39

Tosun,

Thank you.

He was the man sent by the commander of the 5000+ Ottoman soldiers surrounded around Ziza, south of Amman by Arab forces.

They asked for help from the Australian forces under Chaytor .

A note in the 2 Light Horse Bde war dairy is signed by a Ottoman officer called Ali Housain and was translated to be a Company Commander?

The name Kaimakam Ali Bey Whahaby appears to be an English mis understanding of his name, and LtCol Ali Bey (?) looks right?

Now who could they be?

From all accounts they appear to be part of the 8th Corps (4th Army)

shown Sept 1918 Allied reports (Comp Div parts 24th Div 48th Div and 3rd Cav Div + Inderpt Cav Bde) 8th Corps Attack/storm Bn (120 men)

So the commanders are;

Col Yasin Hilmi Bey 7-18 WIA by arab forces 9-18 - Col Selahattin Bey (Kiper)

CofS and Staff officers

Kemalettin or Keramettin Sami (Gökçe) dates? and or Maj Sefik Avni (Özüdogru) 1918 and Capt Ekrem (Baydar)

The Artillery commander for the 8th Corps is not recorded, so could he be LtCol Ali Bey ?

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by Tosun Saral » 28 Nov 2018 13:40

He is Kaymakam. His gold apolette was darkened in order to camouflage him on the field under the bright day light.
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Tosun Saral
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by Tosun Saral » 28 Nov 2018 13:52

Lt. General Kemalettin or Keramettin Sami (GÖKÇEN) died in Berlin while he was ambassador of Turkish Republic.His wife was an Egyptian princessin of Turkish origine. His doughter married to older son of Cevad Abbas Gürer the adjutand of Atatürk. Their elder son is my class mate with whom I still have contact.

Tosun Saral
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by Tosun Saral » 29 Nov 2018 17:40

Artillery Lt.Col. MEHMET ALİ BEY from Şam/ Damascus son of Davut Bey from Damascus. (Damascus 1871- ....)
Army serial no: (1308 - Top.15) 1308 is 1892, Top. is artillery , 15 is 15th of his class.
commander of 24th Art. Regiment.
Dishonourably discharged from Turkish Army in 1921 by Turkish National Parliament

domster
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by domster » 30 Nov 2018 16:48

Hi guys

there is more info on the AWM site, an article:
https://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/fi ... -20031.pdf

a surrender document that mentions a Ottoman Company Commander Ali Housain:

https://www.awm.gov.au/index.php/articl ... ember-1918

They seem to think this force was made up of units of the Ma'an garrison and presumably intermediate troops stationed at stations on the Hejaz Railway trying to evacuate north.

All the best
Dom.

stevebecker
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by stevebecker » 30 Nov 2018 23:34

Dom,

Many thanks mate, this adds more to the story.

One thing that had me was the use of the so called General's name

Now as Tosun mentioned that

Turkish General, Kaimakam Ali Bey Whahaby

Clearly he was no General and Kaimakam or LtCol seams more correct.

Ali Bey is a well known name in the Ottoman Army, and I have many of them, but as Tosun shows he was the commander of the 24th Artillery Regt which formed part of this force, but since the main force of the 24th Div retreated via Deraa (between 26 Sept & 1 Oct) arrived around Hums Station 5 Oct 1918, so was he Ali Bey with his Div not in that force at Ziza?

The other thing is the name "Whahaby" or "Wahaby"

Since these names didn't come into use untill after Ataturk took over and made all take a family name in the 30's, what would Wahaby be doing at the end of his name?

Other senior officers known by that name

Mehmet Ali Bey 24th Artillery Regt LtCol
Mehmet Ali Bey 25th Artillery Regt to 45th Artillery Regt Maj
Mehmet Ali Bey 25th Regt - 1Bn - 9-15 Maj
Mehmet Ali Bey 34th Regt - LtCol
Mehmet Ali Bey 85th Regt 12-14 Maj
Mehmet Ali Bey 9th Artillery Regt 1915 LtCol
Mehmet Ali Bey pilot Airforce 2nd Sqn Lt to Capt
Mehmet Ali Bey 1st Expeditionary Force & 51 Div 9-15 & 13th Corps LtCol to Col KIA 30-11-15
Mehmet Ali Bey 28th Div Col KIA 30-11-16

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: who is this Ottoman officer

Post by Tosun Saral » 01 Dec 2018 10:40

The officer in the photo is mounted artillery Kaymakam. (Lt.Col.) The officer captured at Ziza is a company commander that means Yüzbaşı (captain)

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who is this Ottoman officer

Post by byronEffef » 15 May 2019 19:15

I dont know who is hosting, or responsible for hosting this site.

But one of the Moderators is Paul on this site. I would PM him for information.

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