Ottoman Air units

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 14 Aug 2019 10:38

Turkish airfield at Amman
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 14 Aug 2019 10:41

German photo and film plane and crew at Palestine
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 14 Aug 2019 10:44

Airfield at Arak el menschije
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 14 Aug 2019 10:48

german airfield at Afule
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 14 Aug 2019 23:39

Mate,

Photos of the Bavarian Jasta 304 (FA 304b) with AEG C4 planes before this unit was combinded with Jasta 300 in March 1918

As shown the AEG C4 number (7954) show it as a German aircraft, as all Ottoman planes (AEG C4) from Germany (41 shown) appear to be shown by number (56--)

Cheers

S.B

Edward L. Hsiao
Member
Posts: 1808
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 08:43
Location: Flagstaff,Arizona

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 28 Aug 2019 06:02

Konrad Bastanier (pilot) and Erwin Strotzel (observer) of FAA-305 together shot down four enemy planes over the Palestine Front during WWI. Got the information from www.the aerodrome.com/forum. They flew an AEG two seater.

Edward L. Hsiao

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 28 Aug 2019 07:20

Ed,

Thanks for that mate, I did not have Konrad down on my list of 305 Jasta (FA 305) airman.

Strotzel Edwin Lt observer Airforce Jasta 305 1 mayista 305 nci Bölükten Bastogne ve Strotzel, Amman üzerinde bir DH dört bombardiman tayyaresi düsürdüler (On May 1 Bastogne and Stroetzel of the 305th Company dropped a DH four bombardment planes over Amman) 1918- claimed shot down a DH 4 bomber near Amman 1-5-18

Since I still have not found who Bastogne is, then was he Bastanier ?

Bastogne Lt Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 1 mayista 305 nci Bölükten Bastogne ve Strotzel, Amman üzerinde bir DH dört bombardiman tayyaresi düsürdüler (On May 1 Bastogne and Stroetzel of the 305th Company dropped a DH four bombardment planes over Amman) 1918- claimed shot down a DH 4 bomber near Amman 1-5-18

I'll have to check that site out to see what they say.

Known 305 Jasta airmen;

Elias Hermann Capt Dr Pilot Airforce Jasta 302 formed in Prussia 12-7-17 (shown OC) to OC Jasta 305 9-18 1917-18 to OC Jasta 305 1918 (replaced Steiner)

Fritz Erich Lt Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 (1896 - KIA 15-9-18) possibly shot down with Ziegler by Lt Murphy & Hawley 1 Sqn AFC near Deraa shown at Qasr el Azraq (130 km east of Amman)

Golombeck Eduard Flieger ground crew Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 (1895 - died 12-10-18) near Bozanti i. Taurus buried German Military Cemetery "Istanbul

Habenberger unknown Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 no details

Herhot or Herud Heinrich Sgt observer Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 WIA 3-7-18 reported with Hohenteu in dog fight near Damie

Hohentau Unteroffizier Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 WIA 3-7-18 reported with Sgt Herhot in dog fight near Damie

Kastenmuller unknown Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 no details

Kranz Lt Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 1918's reported shot down a British plane near the bedouins 9-8-18

Mackenthun Elias Walter Capt Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 shown OC 2-18 1918's

Scheel unknown Airforce Jasta 305 1917-18 no details

Schneidewind Gustav Vzfw Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 3-18 to (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's from FAR 29 & FAR 305 to Jasta 17 (4 victories) - shown claimed 3 victories 2x balloons 8-5-18 & 9-5-18 and EA 5-18 in Palestine shown PoW & WIA 23-5-18 in both arms during a dog fight with Lt Carrick & Paul or McGinness? 1 Sqn AFC

Steiner Erich Capt observer Airforce Jasta 300 - Filistin'de 300. Uçus filosunda (300th Sqn in Palestine) shown OC Armee Flugpark F all of the shops and spare aircraft was based Damascus 9-17 to OC Jasta 305 3-18 - Filistin'de 305. Uçus filosu komutani (305th Sqn in Palestine Flight fleet commander) shown OC Jasta 303 9-18 1918's arrived 3-18 shown shot down Lt Steele 111 Sqn RFC near Kafr Qasim or Mulebbis 10-4-18 from 27 July to 18 August and vice-commander from 15 September to 20 October 1918 to Commander from October 20 1918 at the end of the war

Wandel Adolf Unteroffizier ground crew Airforce Jasta 305 1918's (1892 - died 24-3-18) at Aleppo

Wappenhans Waldemar Lt to Capt Pilot Airforce Jasta 300 Filistin'de 300. Uçus filosunda (300th Sqn in Palestine) rtn Jasta 305 1918 1917-18 from 239th IR to FAA 55 WIA 12-15 to Palestine RTG 2-17 rtn with Jasta 305 reported wounded in Beirut ?-9-18 no details

Ziegler Kurt von und Klipphausen Capt observer Airforce Jasta 305 shown OC 4-18 to 7-18 1917-18 (1888 - KIA 15-9-18) Ex Rittmister Jäger-Regiment zu Pferde Nr. 2 - possibly shot down with Fritz by Lt Murphy & Hawley 1 Sqn AFC near Deraa shown at Qasr el Azraq (130 km east of Amman)

Zilles Lt Airforce shown Jasta 300 Uçus filosunda emir subayi (300 Commandant in airplane fleet) also shown Jasta 305 1917-18

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 28 Aug 2019 12:40

Zilles Lt Airforce shown Jasta 300 Uçus filosunda emir subayi
emir subayı: adjutant or aide-de-camps

300 Uçus filosunda means in airplane fleet Nr 300. the one who wrote this has no idea of airplanes. there was never a airplanr fleet nr 300. It is 300 numaralı tayyare Bölüğü or Airplane squadron Nr 300

So Lt Zillers was a adjutant or aide-de-camps of the german Tayyare Bölüğü Nr 300

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 29 Aug 2019 03:06

Tosun,

Thanks again Google translate fails again.

I have a record of Zilles both in FA 300 and FA 305, possibly when the units combined around March 1918?

Known Adj of FA 300

Soyter Heinrich ObLt Pilot Airforce Adjt Jasta 300 4-16 Filistin'de 300. Uçus filosunda emir subayi 1916 (1888 - KIA 23-4-16) from Bavarian 1 JR to FA 2b - KIA 23-4-16 shot to head battle of Katya with (3) Camel (Hecin) Regt - 2Co

Schumburg (Schaumburg) Henry Sgt to ObLt to Capt observer Airforce Jasta 300 4-16 T/OC (heemskerk in hosp) 4-16 to 5-16 to Adjt 5-16 RTG 9-16 rtn (pilot) OC Jasta 303 9-17 - Pilot ve Filistin'de 303. Uçus filosu komutani (Jasta 303 in Palestine is commander) 1916-18 from IR 76 - replaced Soyter & observer to Dittmar replaced by Lt Koeing 7-16 shown WIA 18-6-16 back shot when obsver to Sgt Kahnt in air raid by 14 Sqn RFC & 17 Sqn RFC on airfield at El Arish RTG 9-16 rtn with FA 303 9-17

Koenig ObLt Pilot Airforce Jasta 300 7-16 shown Adjt Jasta 300 4-17 1916-17 arrived 25-7-16 replaced Schumberg RTG 8-17

So did Zilles replace Koening when he returned to Germany in Aug 1917?

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 29 Aug 2019 10:30

Adj of FA 300 = Adjutant Flieger Abteilung (FA) Flight Sgdn

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 30 Aug 2019 00:16

Tosun,

Yes its just the way I have allowed to follow these German Air units

Jasta was a Hunting unit (Fighter) Jagdstaffel

After 1916 with the German air unit changes those non fighter units, were called FAA to FA (Feldflieger Abteilung to Flieger Abteilung)

The problem with the German units sent to Palestine was there multi rolls, of both Fighter and Recee work, not to mention bomber rolls.

So offically they were FA, but I like to show them as Jasta

The strenght of these two Air units also veried, like a Jasta had some 14 pilots and (Fighter type) planes, while at FA was to have 6 pilots and 6 observers with 6 (Recee type) planes.

But in Palestine things changed as the war went on, and units became mixed with both fighter and recee aircraft (in 1916 FA 300 had both Rumplers and Fokkers). Even the newer units in late 1917 and 1918 tried to stay one type, but that could never work and they soon were using what they could. Like to combined units FA 300 with Jasta 1 (F) and FA 305 into Jasta 2 (F)

S.B

Edward L. Hsiao
Member
Posts: 1808
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 08:43
Location: Flagstaff,Arizona

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 30 Aug 2019 02:05

Flugobermaat Wilhelm Schubert,pilot of seaplane 424 was to spend most of his combat service at the Dardanelles and to score several more victories. The semi-official register of Imperial Navy officers provides of brief sketch of his wartime career,noting his commissioning as a reserve officer. He was born 4 December 1892 and entered the navy in August 1914 as a member of the Freiwilliger Marine-Fliegerkorps. In November 1915 he was transferred to the Sonderkommando der Kaiserlichen Marine in der Turkei. On 24 May 1917 he received a patent as Leutnant der Reserve der Matrosenartillerie. In September 1918 he was assigned to the I. Seeflieger Abteilung,remaining until war's end. He retired from active duty (ausser Dienst) on 21 January 1920. Source: "Over The Front,Volume 11,Number 2,Summer 1996".
The question is how many victories in total did Wilhelm Schubert score in air combat during WWI?

Edward L. Hsiao

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 30 Aug 2019 03:03

Ed,

I record this on Schubert

Schubert Wilhelm or Georg Vzfw to Ltdz Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1915 1915-18 (1892 - ?) claimed shot down a Farman from (French) Escadrille MF 98T 4-1-16 - (Gotha WD 12 (573) attacked balloon (SS8) off Mudros 14-10-16 claimed shot down a Farman 26-2-17 near Imbros - claimed shot down third plane over Lemnos 12-10-17 - claimed shot down seaplane near Islands 17-1-18

I have seen his name either Wilhelm and Georg, so I did know if they were the same man or two different men?

The Wasserfliegerabteilung as;

Constanople and Sea of Marmara 1915-16 to Black Sea 1916-17

German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) - Capt Leibmann (G) 1915 to Capt Goltz (G) 1917

German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) formed 5 pilots and 5 obsvers (3x Gotha WD1) at San Stefano 7-15 from Nieuport Hydravion att 1 Sqn 3-15 + (3x Gotha WD2) 10-15 2x planes to base at Anatoli Kawak (Black Sea) 1-16 with anti sub units at Chanak and Rodosto & Kuteli (Sea of Marmara) 1-16 - shown 12 pilots & obsvers 29 ground crew and 48 Turkish soldiers (8x Gotha aircraft) 2-16 - moved to Zonguldak Black Sea 4-16 to Eregeli (cover the coal shipments) 7-16 shown Friedrichshafen FF39 or FF33E/L seaplane 1917 - part was moved to Chanak and to Xanthi Bulgarian coast for raids out to Islands off Gallipoli late 1917 shown (part 2xplanes) to Mersina Gulf of Alexandretta Nov 1917 ? + known types possibly with Sqn - Gotha WD12 Gotha WD6 Sablatnig LVG SF5 Hansa-Brandenburg W29 shown at Kavak on the Black Sea Strait 11-18

Known aircrew

Backer Paul Flieger Naval Airforce possibly German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1918's (died 22-4-18 at Dardanelles) commemoration at Tarabya Istanbul
Buddenbrock Freiherr (Baron) von ObLtdz Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) Çanakkale'de pilot deniz subayi 1918-
Croneiss 1/Ltdz Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) Üstegmen Croneiss Çanakkale bogazinda denizci Pilot claimed 1x shown shot down 7-1-16 & 1x shown shot down 8-1-16 & 1x shown shot down 4-2-16
Dittmar Gustav Adolf (edgar)? Sgt / Vzfw to ObLt Pilot Airforce Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 10-15 to Jasta 300 4-16 to Jasta 301 10-17 1912-17 (1890-1945?) from FFA 2 to FA 301 - obsvr ObLt Von Bulow 18-6-16 - when escorting Lt Leim in AEG was shot down in Albatross D3 (D636/17) by (BF) Bristol fighters of Lt Steele 111 Sqn RFC PoW 8-10-17 captured by 11 ALH and with Lt von Thuena in Albatross D3 brought down in same action
Goltz Capt-Lt Naval to Maj pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) shown OC German Seaplane Sqn 1917 -18 shown also Inspector Ottoman Marineluftfahresens) Naval Avation 7-18 - Deniz kuvvetleri uçak filolari komutani Basmüfettisi (Navy aircraft fleet commander Chief Inspector) 1917-1918
Görtner Sgt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1918's reported shot down in FF 33L (1124) Seaplane along with Sgt Krüger in Albatros seaplane by British Lt Alcock in a Camel and Sub Lt Mellings Sopwith Triplane while escort to a Reccon sortie to Mudros Bay 30-9-17
Haller Karl Flieger Maat Naval Flyermaat App possibly Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) (died 18-2-18) grave at Tarabya Istanbul
Körner Capt Obsver Airforce to German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 5-15 Army att Naval 5-15 shown OC seaplane Sqn 9-15
Krüger Walter Flugzeugobermaat / Sgt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1918's reported KIA 30-9-17 when shot down in Albatros W4 (1048) Seaplane along with Görtner in FF 33L (1124) seaplane and Muller in Rumpler (894) Seaplane by British Lt Alcock in a Camel and Sub Lt Mellings Sopwith Triplane while escort to a Reccon sortie to Mudros Bay 30-9-17
Leibmann or Liebmann Ernst Kapt Naval pilot Airforce OC German Seaplane Squadron (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 5-15 Deniz kuvvetlerinde Bogazlar uçak filolari komutani (Boats in the naval forces aircraft fleet commander) 1915- first OC
Meinke Lt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung)
Meuser Flieger Maat Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung)
Müller Johann Robert Lt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1918's reported WIA and PoW when shot down in Rumpler (894) Seaplane along with Görtner in FF 33L (1124) and Krüger in FF 33L (1048) seaplanes by British Lt Alcock in a Camel and Sub Lt Mellings Sopwith Triplane while escort to a Reccon sortie to Mudros Bay 30-9-17
Philipp Lt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung)
Popp LtzS Naval pilot Airforce OC German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) Çanakkale'de pilot deniz subayi (Pilot marine officer in Çanakkale) 1918's shown led sorties to bomb islands off Gallipoli 1918
Rasch LtzS Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1915-
Sass Wilhelm Flieger Naval Airforce possibly German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) (1892 - died 18-7-18 at Dardanelles) grave at Tarabya Istanbul
Schneider Karl Kapt-Lt Navy observer Airforce staff officer to Admiral Usedom att 1st Sqn Tayyare Boluk 3-15 later possibly German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) shown on patrol with Capt Serno to Tenedos 17-3-15 made first reccon flight in Rumpler B1 over Gallipoli
Schuetz Flieger Maat Naval Pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1915- WIA 25-1-16 L/thigh when bombed the flight shed at Tenedos 25-1-16
Stenzel Flieger Mech observer Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1915- bombed the flight shed at Tenedos 25-1-16
Wendelmuth Rudolf Lt Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) dates? shown claimed 14 victories with OFA 5 (1 in Turkey)
Widmann Flugmeister / Vzfw Naval pilot Airforce German Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) 1918's

Thats all I have on it?

S.B

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 01 Sep 2019 23:39

Tosun,

Do you have any details on the Ottoman pilot who was reported shot down and killed by the Greek pilot Sgt Christoforos Stavropoulos in the War of Independence 12 July 1922

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 3856
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 02 Sep 2019 07:50

Observer Capt Ahmet Bahattin Bayram (Yanya 1892- over Afyon, 25.7.1922
military number: 1914-2069
Buried at Afyon Hava Şehidliği The
http://www.tayyareci.com/hvsehitleri/ci ... 33/020.htm
Pilot Cemal Bey . He was a cavalry officer. No more information. killed with Ahmet Bahattin Bayram on 25.7.1922
http://www.tayyareci.com/hvsehitleri/ci ... 33/021.htm

YOU SAY they were shot down on 12 July 1922 . They might be died at hospital of wounds

Return to “The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923”