Ottoman Air units

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 02 Sep 2019 22:22

Tosun,

Thank you

Yes the Greeks claim the aircraft shot down on that day.

Just before the Greeks were said to have left the area?

S.B

Skarpskytten
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Skarpskytten » 03 Sep 2019 13:26

Tosun Saral wrote:
14 Aug 2019 10:38
Turkish airfield at Amman
Tosun, what is the source of these photographs?

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 04 Sep 2019 10:14

Skarpskytten, source is Österreichisches Staatsarchiv

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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 04 Sep 2019 10:17

A german plane on train crossing the huge Taurus Mountains south of Turkey bound to Palestine
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Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Tosun Saral » 04 Sep 2019 10:40

A turkish german pilot with a 226 number on his arm. This number means he was a crew of Artillerie-Fliegerabteilung 226 AFA 226 which was founded on 14.3.1916 on west front. The name changed to Fliegerabteilung 226 s (Artillerie) (FA A 226 s)

Observer Hans Joachim Seidel and pilot Metzky was attended to Fliegerabteilung 303 at Palestine. The one on photo must be one of the two germans. He has still 226 on his arms. Royalty to the main unit.
Source of the photo: İclal Örses
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stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 04 Sep 2019 22:20

Tosun,

Yes these two men came from FA (A) 226 .

Along with them this man I also show came from that unit;

Rüdiger Freiherr Von Künsberg or (Kinsberg)

Pilot Airforce Jasta 304b 9-17 to (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 (on grave) also shown as Jasta 303 1917-18 (1898 - KIA 8-6-18) Bavarian from FA (A) 226 shown sick of malaria managed a crash landing in accident at Afule 10-11-17 reported KIA 8-6-18 shot down near Tul Karem by Lt Gledhill 111 Sqn RFC who attacked a formation of two enemy two-seaters and three Albatros D.Vs just east of Tabor. He engaged one just north of Tul Keram and shot it down reporting that the tail fell off as it dived down into clouds

S.B

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 10 Sep 2019 07:35

From the book " The Jasta Pilots" on page 64,Jasta 55/Jasta 1(F) claimed eight victories,but at a cost of eight pilots killed in action,one killed in a crash,one taken prisoner,and one wounded.

Edward L. Hsiao

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 10 Sep 2019 22:11

Ed,

Its hard to confirm details on Jasta 55 / Jasta 1F when the unit was combined with FA 300 and FA 305 early 1918?

Even the known aircrew are not confirmed.

Bötzow (Boetzow) Fritz Lt deR Pilot Airforce Jasta 300 shown (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 - Filistin'de Cenin'de 300. Sahra uçus birliklerinde Sehit Pilot (Jenin De 300th in Palestine Sehit Pilot in Field Flight Units) 1918's KIA 28-4-18 on grave no details reported shot down near Nablus from the BF C4626 (Kenny and FC Hawley) and from BF C4627 (crew ES Stooke and HB Fletcher) of the 1st AFC Sqn

Debus Wilhelm Lt pilot Airforce possibly Jasta 300 12-17 (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 to OC (from Meirederks KIA) 5-18 to 6-18 1918's from FAA 12 1916 to Jasta 34 to Kest 9 1917 to FA 300 12-17 to Jasta 55 (F) 5-18

Flecken Gerhard Wilhelm Lt deR Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 to OC (from Debus) 6-18 to wars end 1918's from Jasta 20 1916 claimed a Caudron NE Lassigny 15-3-17 claimed a Nieuport near Vendeuil 9-5-17 claimed shot down Pup (A6240) with Capt Hudson PoW over Bruges 13-7-17 & OC Jasta 43 1917 claimed a British DH 9 near Richebourg 8-5-18 to Turkey 6-18 (4 victories)

Genzel Willi Lt observer Airforce Jasta 300 shown combined Jasta 300 & (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 1918's (1891 - DoW 6-5-18) reported WIA 14-4-18 with Vfz Knevels in dog fight with Lt Bott 111 Sqn RFC near Tabsor

Gerstmann Bruno unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's Died 21-10-18 as PoW

Gescheidle Wilhelm unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's KIA 20-9-18 in a bombing by planes of the 111th RFC squadron on the Jenin airfield

Gisch Friedrich unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's Died 29-3-18 in Aleppo.

Gustav Lt Pilot Airforce shown Jasta 2 (F) possibly (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F2 1918's reported shot down a British plane 25-4-18 (possibly Maj Turnbull (PoW) & Lt Repton (KIA) 142 Sqn RFC RE 8 (B6601) shot down 25-4-18

Hampe von Offizierstellvertreter WO Airforce shown Jasta 300 shown (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 on grave 1918's reported MIA possibly KIA 8-4-18 no mdetails

Kaeppler (Käppeler) Karl Vzfw Observer Airforce Jasta 300 to (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's (1892 - DoW 8-5-18) Wurtemburg from FAA 252W WIA 10-17 Wurtemburg Gold Military Service Medal to Turkey reported wounded when crashed landed with Lt Wolff (P) in dog fight by Lt Smith & Mustard or Tonkin & Camm 1 Sqn AFC near Tul Karem died at Nazareth also shown KIA 8-5-18

Kinzig Friedrich unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's KIA 20-9-18 in a bombing by planes of the 111th RFC squadron on the Jenin airfield

Knevels Friedrich Vzfw pilot Airforce Jasta 300 shown combined Jasta 300 & (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 1918's (1889 - KIA 14-4-18) reported shot down with Lt Genzel in dog fight with Lt Bott 111 Sqn RFC near Tabsor

Knüpfer Willi unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's died 20-10-18 to Bozanti in Taurus

Krüger Kurt Lt deR Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's KIA 18-7-18 reported Albatros DV shot down by Smith and Kirk in BF (B1229) 1st Sqn AFC near Beit Djan 17-7-18

Künsberg (Kinsberg) Rüdiger Freiherr Von Lt Pilot Airforce Jasta 304b 9-17 to (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 (on grave) also shown as Jasta 303 1917-18 (1898 - KIA 8-6-18) Bavarian from FA (A) 226 shown sick of malaria managed a crash landing in accident at Afule 10-11-17 reported KIA 8-6-18 shot down near Tul Karem by Lt Gledhill 111 Sqn RFC attacked a formation of two enemy two-seaters and three Albatros D.Vs just east of Tabor. He engaged one just north of Tul Keram and shot it down reporting that the tail fell off as it dived down into clouds

Kunz (Kunze) Hermann Karl Ludwig Lt Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1-18 shown to Jasta 300 or Jasta 2 (F) (1918'de Pasa birliklerinde Filistin ve Irak'ta avci uçak pilotu (in Palestine and Iraq in 1918) Mesopotamia 1918's from Jasta 3 to Jasta 7 (3 victories) in France - claimed shot down British fighters 3-1-18 and 4-1-18 shown Potts KIA & Parkinson RE 8 (B5854) 67 Sqn (1 Sqn AFC) & Capt Hewett MC KIA and 2Lt A Butt KIA (RE 8) 113 Sqn RFC both planes collided during combat - shown shot down balloon 28-4-18 & claimed a balloon with Lt Hargreaves KIA from 50th KBS 8-5-18 claimed a BE 8 15-5-18 claimed a SE5a 7-18 possibly flown Albatross D3 (7416/17) at AWM in Canberra (6 victories or 3 victories?)

Leim Paul Gefr to Vzfw to Lt deR Pilot Airforce Jasta 300 9-17 to Offizierstellvertreter (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 5-18 shown Jasta 2 (F) when both combined 1917-18 (1884 - 1975) from FI 8 & FAA 14 - shown with obsver Lt Daum in AEG C4 escorted by Dittmar PoW & Thuena when both were brought down by Lt Steele 1 Sqn AFC 8-10-17 RTG 7-18 to Jasta 27 to Kest 4b 8-18

Meirederks or Meyerdirks or Maierdirch Lt deR Pilot Airforce shown first OC (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1-18 to 5-18 combined into Jasta F1 5-18 shown combined Jasta 300 & (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 T/CO (from Felmy) 1918's (photo shot down British RE 8 24/25-4-18 near Nablus) reported killed accidental crash in Albatros DVa when plane wings collapsed and crashed shown KIA 4-5-18 on grave reported MIA

Müller Karl unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's died 9-10-18

Palz Eduard Lt observer Airforce Jasta 300 shown combined Jasta 300 & (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 1918's (1888 - KIA 4-4-18) from FAA 201 reported Rumpler C3 shot down by Lt Steele & Walker 111 Sqn RFC near Nablus (no details on who his pilot was?)

Rissman Gefr / Unteroffizier Airforce shown Jasta 300 Sahra uçus birliklerinde Sehit (Sehit in 300 Field Flight Units) shown (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 on grave possibly shown combined Jasta 300 & (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 3-18 1918's KIA 2-4-18 or died no details?

Schneidewind Gustav Vzfw Pilot Airforce Jasta 305 3-18 to (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1-18 to 5-18 1918's (1890 - ?) from FAR 29 & FAR 305 to Jasta 17 (4 victories) - shown in Albatros D5a claimed 3 victories claimed a balloon possibly Lt Hargreaves KIA from 50th KBS also claimed by Lt Kunz 8-5-18 & a balloon 9-5-18 and EA 5-18 in Palestine shown PoW & WIA 23-5-18 in both arms during a dog fight with Lt Carrick & Paul or McGinness? 1 Sqn AFC

Schroth Guenther Lt deR Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 shown Jasta F2 1-18 to 11-18 1918's

Walter Siegfried Lt Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's KIA 24-8-18 (Pfalz DIII fighter) report tried to escape with the help of his parachute but failed to open when two Pfalz DIII fighters shot down by British BF's near Tul Karem

Wieczorek Augusts unknown Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel F1 1918's died 25-10-18 in Adana

Sorry not much there and mixed with FA 300 and Jasta F2.

S.B
Last edited by stevebecker on 11 Sep 2019 00:03, edited 2 times in total.

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 10 Sep 2019 22:48

That's okay Steve. That imput you got on that latter post is plenty. Thank you.

Edward L. Hsiao

Skarpskytten
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by Skarpskytten » 13 Sep 2019 15:25

Tosun Saral wrote:
04 Sep 2019 10:14
Skarpskytten, source is Österreichisches Staatsarchiv
Thank you, Tosun!

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Air units

Post by stevebecker » 15 Sep 2019 23:48

Tosun,

I was rechecking details on the lost of Cemal and Bayram by the Greek pilot and found these details;

"The greeks claimed 3 victories, and the turks one. Only one victory is confirmed by both the greek and the turkish archives : 25 july 1922, Sgt Christophoros Stavropoulos in a SPAD VII shots down a turkish Breguet 14 in the north of Afyon Karahissar, killing the turkish crew, Ahmet Bahattin Bayram (pilot) and Cemal Bey (observer), after a furious dogfight.

The greek troops buried the turkish aviators after a muslim ceremony with full military honors. The Greek aviators launch a message written in French to the Turkish aviators, indicating that "their funerals took place yesterday in Afyon Karahisar with all the honors which belong to heroes. We ask you to receive our condolences for the tragic death of two brave men ".

A nice act of chivalery in this bloody war.

Regards,
DTB"

Of cause no details on the other claims either by the Greeks or the one plane reported shot down by the Turks?

I did see this on what maybe these claims?

On 21/06/21 a Greek Spad VII pilot claimed a Turkish fighter which had scrambled to intercept a Greek raid.

On the other hand a Turkish scout forced a Greek to land near Eski-Sehir.

No details on these claims

I did notice these Turkish aircrew lost that year?

Ahmet Fehmi Efendi pilot Airforce died 25-3-21 (1894 died 25-3-21) 1914-45 to War of Independence

Behçet Bey Efendi pilot Airforce 4th Sqn 12-17 shown 2nd Sqn (1920) shown 1st Sqn 1921 Lt to civil KIA 18-8-21 (1886 died 18-8-21) shown photo with Sitki Tanman Lt Keylisk Lt Chakar and Fehmi next to Albatros (202) at Deraa 1-1-18 to War of Independance reported died with Süleyman Sirri (O) due to engine fire in a Fiat R-2

Halil Efendi (Ziver) pilot Airforce shown 2nd Sqn (1920) Lt died 13-8-21 (1898 to died 13-8-21) War of Independance

Süleyman Sirri Efendi observer/photogrpher Airforce shown 1st Sqn (1920) Lt KIA 18-8-21 War of Independance reported died with Behçet Bey (P) due to engine fire in a Fiat R-2

Cheers

S.B

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