4.7 inch guns

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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4.7 inch guns

Post by stevebecker » 29 Jun 2022 01:07

Mates,
An inquiry wanted to know about a photos of captured Ottoman guns at 3rd Gaza
SO far a number of these have turned up as captured at 3rd Gaza and the days after as the Ottoman 7th and 8th Armies retired
I check Allied Intell reports, but no 4/7" guns are mentioned with Ottoman forces?
So what guns are these and what units had them?
4.7 " or possibly 105 mm
I remember a report by a Turkish staff officer on the losses at 3rd Gaza but could not find it do you have it?
S.B

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pikeshot1600
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Re: 4.7 inch guns

Post by pikeshot1600 » 01 Jul 2022 16:59

A 4.7" gun would be about 120 mm. AFAIK there were no modern (contemporary) German guns of that caliber. As Germany had become the primary supplier of artillery for Turkey, perhaps it was an older piece, with reserves(?), acquired from another supplier.

As a possibility, the British had developed their 4.5" howitzer after the Boer War, and some of those may have been captured by the Turks in Mesopotamia, probably at Kut. Certainly not conclusive, but the weapon is similar in caliber.

stevebecker
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Re: 4.7 inch guns

Post by stevebecker » 02 Jul 2022 00:08

Mate,

Thanks for the answer
Yes I have now narrowed it down to 12cm or 120mm guns.
The British text say they were naval guns and a 4th Ottoman Army report during 1917 does give those guns with Ottoman forces.


4th Army report

shown 1st Gaza March 1917 10th Heavy (Agir) How Bty (2x 100mm) 254th Heavy (Agir) How (2x 150mm) 1Bn/6th FAR (8x Schneider 75mm M 1907) -

shown June 1917 Allied reports - 6x Bty's Turkish Heavy (Agir) How Regt (12 to 16 - 150mm How & 120mm Naval Guns) -

shown July 1917 Allied reports - (12x 150mm How & 120mm Naval Guns) 101st TMB 103rd TMB (12x TM's) 8th Heavy (Agir) How Bty (4x 150mm How) 142nd AA sect (6x guns) -

I have narrowed them down to possibly Batteries of the 40th Agir How Bn which arrived on that front (Gaza) around Middle 1917
shown Allied Intell report - 40th Heavy (Agir) How Bn (4Bty, 49Bty & 50Bty (11x 150mm how)

Allied Intell reports place it with 150mm (15cm) guns, but the 4th Army report gives both 150mm and 120mm Naval guns
in three Batteries with 12 guns

Ottoman Batteries of Heavy (Agir) guns come in two forms, either two guns or four, both appear during the war, so to say 6xBatteries and not the three shown does make sence.

Odd number of guns in batteries also show up, possibly due to the odd gun being sent to the main Artillery repair depot to be serviced or repaired for a length of time (at Sam/Damascus or Jerusalem) . Ottoman reports show this at times.
I can give you a tech reason for this, but not now.

Another inquiry answer gives these guns as possibly 1873 Krupp L24, of which the Ottoman Army received some 120 that year.

So how many were left in 1917 is any ones guess

Cheers
S.B

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Tanzania
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Re: 4.7 inch guns

Post by Tanzania » 02 Jul 2022 07:51

I haven't done much research, but it is also known that Krupp 12 cm field guns were used in the GW.
Also in the Middle East with the Ottoman allies. There are even delivery lists for the model C/80 and M/80 before 1914.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 6_Q892.jpg
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/12_cm_Kanone_C/80
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

stevebecker
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Re: 4.7 inch guns

Post by stevebecker » 03 Jul 2022 06:41

Mate,
thanks yes the Krupp 12cm Kanone M80 does look like the guns in the British photos.
S.B

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