Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

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stevebecker
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Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 06 Dec 2022 22:11

Mates,

Strange one was found in Erickson book "Ordered to Die" page 125

He states on the night 27-28 Jan 1916 a Russian force raided the area of the village of Kornes in the 3rd Armies sector, HQ of 38th Div and captured the Commander, eight staff officers and the Div Veterinarian, the Artillery commander and three of his staff, and on the way back collected 3 guns and 200 Ottoman soldiers.

Now this was comment had me looking, as the 38th Div was no where near the 3rd Armies Area?
I did wonder if he meant the 18th or 28th Div's as they were on that Front?
But again none show any numbers of officers lost around this time?
The 18th Div does shown its 98th Regt almost destroyed at Hasan Kale 14-1-16

Do any know of what Erickson is talking about here or any details on this Russian raid
Cheers

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 08 Dec 2022 00:14

Mates,
Sorry but new info has come in about this.
Details on this are mentioned in a number of souces, including the Turkish War History
They all appear incorrect?
The Div is now confirmed as the 30th Div and the raid was in Jan 1915 not 1916
See Marshall Fevzi's book "Birinci Dünya Savaşı'nda Doğu Cephesi Harekâtı" (Operations on the Eastern Front in the First World War) p. 68:
While the details of the raid are yet to be confirmed, now we know its the 30th Div, who was captured?
The 30th Div has limited info on, and its commander was possibly Ali Osmond Bey
But there is no details on him?
The Artillery commander is shown as Maj von Berg (German) but he died in Bitits 1916 of illness
So he was not captured
Still don't know whats happened here but needs more to check out?
S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 08 Dec 2022 23:54

Mates,
Again we have to change whats given.
while not confirmed we have this name put forward for the Div Commander Captured?
Fethi Bey (Uzgören)

Balkan Savaşı’nda İhtiyat Ordusu Kurmaylığı, Elazığ Tümeni Kurmay Başkanı, 93’üncü Alay Komutanı olarak görev yaptı. Birinci Dünya Savaşı’na 31’inci Tümen Komutanı olarak katıldı ve Ruslara esir düştü. Sibirya’da esir iken buradan kaçarak yurda döndü. 34Döndükten sonra 11 Ekim 1915’te emekli edildi

So was it Fethi captured in this raid?
We also have a new Division as not the 38th or 30th now the 31st Div?
I have little on the 31st Div at this time

The commanders of the 31st Div until disband in Aug 1916

Kaymakam / Yarbay LtCol Hasan Vasfi Bey 31st Div (commanded during the winter battles 1914-15 ordered retreat to village of Beyköy)

Binbasi to Kaymakam Maj to LtCol Süleyman Izzet (Yeginati) CofS 2nd Res Cavalry Div & CO 31st Div 1915 & 15th Div 1-16 to 1918 captured Baku Caucasus 8-18 Cav (1881 to 1944) Caucusus

Kaymakam / Yarbay LtCol Kazim Bey 31st Div (I have not details on him?)

So where did Fethi fit in, possibly before Izzet arrived to replaced Vasfi after the winter battles?

As to the names of any officers in the 31st Div at this time I can find no names for staff or Regt commanders?
for your interest
S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 12 Dec 2022 04:25

Mates,
Just to update
The lastest appears the Fethi moved from commanding the 93rd Regt (31st Div) to Commander 30th Div in Jan 1915 Temp replacing its commander, Ali Osman Bey, who was sent home sick.
As Fethi is shown in reports by 30th Div and 88th Regt, as commanding at that time.
The change over of officers happen due to the hard winter they all suffered, so finding names has been almost impossible.'
I did find the commanders at that time thanks to Emrezmen;
Maj Nurettin Temel 88th Regt, and
Maj Rasim 89th Regt
S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by Tosun Saral » 17 Dec 2022 21:11

The neme of Kornes is today "Güvenlik" . Most of the old names were changed in the last 30 years.

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by Tosun Saral » 17 Dec 2022 21:51

Marshall Fevzi Pasha writes on p.68: "Ruslar da Sibirya Kazak tugayı ile Kornes'de 30'ncu Tümen karargahına , 28 Ocak 1915'te bir baskın yaparak tümen komutanı ile kurmay başkanını ve 5-10 subay ve askeri esir aldılar" He doesnot mention any names.

Görgülü gives the name of the C of 3oth Div.as Lt.Col. Ali Osman Bey . He does not g,ve any more information about him

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 19 Dec 2022 06:54

Tosun,
my Friend hope you are well.

Yes Fevzi confirms the Division raided that night, but Cossacks in interesting I've not seen that before

Yes offical documents confirm the Commander of the 30th Div at that time was Fethi, he replace Ali Osman a few days earlier due to illness but quicky captured in this raid, only to later escape

What I have on him;

Binbasi Maj Fethi Bey (Uzgören) CO 93rd Regt (31st Div) 1914 to T/CO 30th Div 1915 (possibly replaced Ali osman) PoW 28-1-15 (born 1877 died?) (1315-P.18) CofS Elazig Div Balken War 1912-13 to 93rd Regt Caucusus captured during Russian raid at Kornes 27/28-1-15 (shown in history as 27/28-1-16?) escaped the POW camp in Siberia retired 30-10-15 to Governor of Urfa and Mersin and the Governor of Baku to Prison 1925 causing religious provocation in the Sheikh Said rebellion that broke out in 1925

Kaymakam / Yarbay LtCol Ali Osman Bey 30th Div 1914-15 Caucusus during the winter battles 1914-15 left on sick leave 3-1-15 replaced by Temp officer

While most reports show

Binbasi Maj Semsettin Bey (possibly CO 90th Regt 1914-15 to T/CO 30th Div 1915 (replaced Osman)

Kaymakam / Yarbay LtCol Bahattin or Bahaeddin Pasha CO 30th Div 1915-16 (replaced Ali Osman) KIA 18-6-16 Caucusus shown Bahaeddin Pasha commander of 30th Division on 18th June 1916

Cheers
Stay safe
S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 19 Dec 2022 22:30

Tosun,

I did some more checking at the mention by Fevzi of the raid being Siberian Cossacks

There was only one Siberian Cossack Bde on that front during that time

Siberian Cossack Bde Gen Kalitin to Col Raddatz 9-15 1st and 2nd Siberian Cossack Regts 2nd Orenburg Cossack Bty (6 guns)

It had been in Army Reserve at Tilfis untill moving to join the 2nd Turkestan corps Feb 1915

So if the raid was in Jan 1915 that may not be the Cossack unit that did it?

There were at lest four Plastun (dismounted) Cossack Bdes operating on that long Front by the Russians during 1914-15
three Kuban and one Don Cossack Bdes

But with no maps on how the Russian Army was depeployed in Front of Erzurum during Jan 1915 we may never know who was in front of the 30th Div?

Does the Turkish Offical History show any maps of this time?

Pardon my Turkish, but I show Fethi wrote this in his report as Division commander dated Jan 1915

"Toprakkale'nin garb-i cenubisindeki sirtlarda ya'ni Kompir koyunun simal-i sarkisindeki sirtlarda dusmanin 70 - 80 kisilik bir piyade kuvvetiyle birkac atlisi vardir"

Mine and Googles poor translation

"On the ridges in the western part of Toprakkale, that is, on the ridges in the simal-i song of Kumpir bay, the enemy has several horsemen with an infantry force of 70 - 80 people."

So possibly Cossacks were involved?

S.B

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 20 Dec 2022 22:17

Mates,

A Russian friend posted this from Russian souces (Mikhail) that maybe the right Raid

"Finally! In the book http://militera.lib.ru/h/korsun_n1/index.html (Korsun. "The Sarikamysh operation") I was able to find the interesting information:

"On January 5, 1915, the 11th Caucasian Rifle Regiment with four mountain guns, reinforced by four hundred Cossacks, was advanced from Gabaev's column to capture Gornes { looks like a Kornes in your transcription - Mikhail}. This detachment, on a heavy night march into a snowstorm, overcoming hard-to-reach mountains, captured the Gornes area with a sudden night attack, where among the prisoners were: the commander of the 30th Infantry Division of the 10th Corps with the entire headquarters, 170 officers and doctors, 400 askers, 3 guns and 1 machine gun. At this episode, the Russian offensive in the Oltinsky direction stopped, and Kalitin's cavalry detachment gathered in the Olty-Noriman area, with guard units advanced forward."

Look like the confirmation of your story from Russian side.

The date of January, 5th looks strange , but maybe the old time style??"

So mates looks right but we will check the dates with the Georgian callender, and Kalitin was the name of the commander of the Siberian Cossacks Bde

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by Tosun Saral » 21 Dec 2022 08:35

şimal-i şarkî : Kuzey doğu: Nordosten: North east
şimal-i şarkîsinde : on the north east

garb-i cenub:south-west
garb-i cenubisindeki: in the southwestern part

stevebecker
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Re: Ottoman Staff captured near Kornes

Post by stevebecker » 21 Dec 2022 09:55

Tosun,

Thank you, was not not sure what he meant by those names, I thought they maybe features around Kornes.
So there directions I should have picked that up
S.B

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