Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Tosun Saral
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Tosun Saral » 27 Aug 2019 13:06

Kapt de Zee? Kapitän zur See

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 28 Sep 2019 08:55

Does the Ottoman Navy had any monitors? That they were crew by Germans and Turks?

Edward L. Hsiao

stevebecker
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 30 Sep 2019 00:34

Ed,

I can't see any, but there were a number of old ships that were used for these tasks until Allied subs got some kills in, and that stopped much of that support fire?

Small numbers of German officers/seaman were placed on many Ottoman ships during the war to add technical add to the Fleet.

Like these few;

Fircks von Kapt-Lt Naval Turkish Torpedoboat "Demirhisar"
Firle Rudolph Kapt-Lt Naval liaison officer Turkish Destroyer "Muavenet" 1.Yarim Filotilla Komutanlari 1914
Mellenthin Hans-Joachim von ObLtzS to Kapt-Lt Naval CO Turkish torpedocruiser "Berk-i Satvet" & Turkish torpedoboat "Demirhisar" to UB 43 Pola Flotilla 1916 to UB 49 Pola/Mittelmeer II Flotilla 1917-18 to UB 120 Pola Flotilla 1918 U boat

S.B

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AJK
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by AJK » 31 Jul 2020 02:55

It appears that German General der Kavallerie Georg von der Marwitz was promoted to the rank of General in the Ottoman Army on 30 June 1913. Can someone please provide a precision whether his rank was Ferik, or Birinci Ferik?

Thanks,

AJK

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 31 Jul 2020 10:07

AJK,

Mate, I am sorry but I can't find any referance to him being in the Millitary Mission to Turkey in 1913 (Sanders Group of 42 officers)

Most don't say anything but the best is;

"He then served as chief of staff for the XVIII Army Corps, commander of the 1st Brigade of the Guards Cavalry and from 1911 as commander of the Third Division, with the rank of lieutenant-general. Finally, in 1913 he was appointed as inspector general of cavalry.

At the start of the First World War Marwitz commanded a cavalry group operating in Belgium. His role was to advance ahead of the First and Second Armies".

As a Cavalryman myselve There are a number of Horse Soldiers with Sanders;

I show;

Frese von Capt (Maj) Cav part Military Mission to Turkey under Von Der Goltz 1909 - Harp Akademilerinde Ögretmen 1. Ordu karargahinda subay (Teacher at military academies Officer at 1st Army headquarters) 1909- from Ulan Regt No 8 (not identified)? part Military Mission to Turkey under Von Der Goltz 1909

Kirsten Lucas Maj (LtCol) Cav Deutsche Militär-Mission in der Türkei unit 3rd Army 1914/15 Caucasus Sivas'ta 1. Süvari Alayi Komutani Bagimsiz süvari tugayinin Komutani (Commander of 1st Cavalry Regt in Sivas Commander of independent cavalry brigade) - shown pre war CO 1st Ottoman Cav Regt to Inderpendant Cav Bde at Dardenelles 1914-16 (born 1874 in Crimmitschau KIA 10-12-17) during a reconnaissance of the front line near Warneton from Ulanenen-Regiment 21 received the Ritterkreuz of the Militär-Sankt-Heinrichs-Orden in 1901 for the China Expedition RTG to IR 103 during the Battle of the Somme near Estrées and Soyécourt 8-16 to CO 177th (12th Royal Saxon) Infantry (32nd Div) Western Front shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

Lauffer (LaufenFritz von) Maj (LtCol) Cav Deutsche Militär-Mission in der Türkei Suvari Subaylari binicilik okulu Komutani Filistin'de Istihbarat Subayi (Suvari Subaylari riding school Commander at Haydarpasa 1914 to Intelligence Agent in Palestine) attach Canel Expedition 2-15 shown wird wohl noch in dem Band; Der Weltkrieg Band 9 in der Fußnote auf Seite 15 aufgeführt. Das Werk steht aber derzeit hier nicht zu Verfügung. 1914-16 (1868 to 1941) Wurttemberg Military Mission 1914 expedition against the Suez Canal 1915 mentioned in book by Kress (not identified)

Prigge Erich Capt Cav (Maj) Deutsche Militär-Mission in der Türkei ADC to Von Sanders 5th Army 1915 - Süvari Subay okulunda Komutan Askeri
Heyet Baskaninin emir subayi (Commander Military Board at Cavalry Officer's School) 1914-16 from Rittmister Ulan Regt No 4 (not identified)?

Schroeder Capt Cav Rittmeister Military Mission to Turkey unknown

Veit Maj Cav part Military Mission to Turkey under Von Der Goltz 1909 1909-

But I'll keep looking.

S.B

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AJK
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by AJK » 31 Jul 2020 15:35

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for your comprehensive reply. I too wondered about his supposed Ottoman promotion, given his appointment in 1913. I suspect that my source erred in conferring him this promotion.

Regards,

AJK

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 21 Jul 2022 08:41

Gentlemen,there were a number of German NCOs that served as officer ranks in the Ottoman Armed Forces. Can you name a few examples of them? A photo would be nice.

Edward L. Hsiao

stevebecker
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 22 Jul 2022 09:18

Mate,
From what I can find a large number did have many ranks of NCO to officer
Most I found were pilots or airforce attached Ottoman Air Companies
But I am open to conjecture if I am wrong.

Onroch (Unroch) Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) to Capt Observer Airforce shown 12th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 3-17 to 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 4-17 shown 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 11-17 to OC (from Bolze) 9-18 1917-18 Mesopotamia shown with Sgt Dore (P) forced landed behind enemy lines and had to walk back 3-3-17 shown Albatros C3 (AK60) with Schliegel (P) recce over Gulf of Saros 8-11-17 (spelling in Ole Nikoljsen)

Omnos Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce to 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 9-17 1917- Mesopotamia shown AEG C4 with Kigosh in raid on Baghdad 25-1-18 reported shot down in AEG C4 with Schultze forced walked to base 31-1-18 (spelling in Ole Nikoljsen)

Just to name a few

Sorry no photos, do you need more?
S.B

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 22 Jul 2022 09:30

AJK,

Mate I am sorry I missed your reply (if your still there)
There appears a number of Ottoman field ranks and medals given to officers of the German Empire before the war, while never having served with those forces.
This also happened during the war as well, to both German and Austrian officers, the best known was the Red Baron
A number of times I found officers awarded the Ottoman War Medal (so called Gallipoli Star) when they never saw Turkey.
S.B

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AJK
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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by AJK » 22 Jul 2022 14:50

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your additional postings. My specific interest was in General von der Marwitz, and I got the answer that I was looking for.

Regards,

AJK

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 23 Jul 2022 02:40

Hello Steve,

Yes I need more examples of German NCO pilots that served as officers in the Ottoman Air Force. It's a little known fact.

Edward L. Hsiao

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 23 Jul 2022 05:29

Mate,

Weather this happened to all SNCO ranks in the German Army attached to the Ottoman Army is unknown, as I don't see it being done with Army or Navy units only Airforce.
Was it done by them possibly but there not recording it?
like SNCO's from 146th Regt show no such honours given to it, likewise not all German SNCO's in FA units show this, only some?

Lets see;

Albrecht Josef Unteroffizier (Lt) Airforce Flieger-Abteilung 300 6-17 1917-

Chromik Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot (ammo officer) Airforce shown 2nd Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 9-18
Dittmar Gustav Adolf (edgar)? Offiziers-Stellverteter (Lt) to ObLt Pilot Airforce 9-15 att Osmanische Fliegertruppe & Serno stab (possibly Seaplane Sqn (Wasserfliegerabteilung) not confirmed 10-15 to Flieger-Abteilung 300 4-16 to Lt 10-16 to ObLt 1-17 to Flieger-Abteilung 301 10-17
Dobberstein Fritz Wachtmeister / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 1-16 shown 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 10-16 t/att 5th Aircraft Company 10-16 shown still 1st Aircraft Company 1-17 RTG 9-18 (1.Tayyare Bölügü astsubay basçavus) shown Flugzeugführer Ltn
Fränkel (Frankl) and or Runkel (possibly Leopold) Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 5-16 to 10th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 11-16 to OC (from Lederer) 1-18 to 3-18
Fuess (Füß) VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce shown Flieger-Abteilung 300 3-17

Hohentau (Kohentau) Unteroffizier (Lt) Pilot Airforce Flieger-Abteilung 305 2-18
Hopff (Hober) Arnold Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 2nd Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 5-17
Jacop (Jacobs) Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) pilot Airforce 5-16 shown (Mess officer) 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 5-18
Jünger (Hunger) Albert VzFeldwebel / Offizier Stellvertreter (Lt) Pilot Airforce Flieger-Abteilung 300 4-16 & shown still there 4-17 & 10-17
Kefler Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel 1 (F) 4-18 shown combined Flieger-Abteilung 300
Klein Johannes VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce Flieger-Abteilung 300 4-16 - shown Pilot 2-17 RTG 6-2-17
Leim Paul VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 4-17 shown Flieger-Abteilung 300 9-17 to Offizier stellvertreter (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel 1 (F) 5-18 shown Jagdstaffel 2 (F) possibly when (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel 1 (F) combined with Flieger-Abteilung 300 around 5-18 possibly Lt deR
Nolle Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Observer Airforce 1917 shown 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 8-17 shown photograph officer 2nd Aircraft Company 9-18
Omnos Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce to 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 9-17
Onroch (Unroch) Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) to Capt Observer Airforce shown 12th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 3-17 to 13th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 4-17 shown 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 11-17 to OC (from Bolze) 9-18
Preussner Louis (Preußner Ludwig) civilian / Unteroffizier (Lt) Pilot Airforce OC Dardanelles Flieger-Abteilung 2-15 OC 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 6-15 to Director Training Flieger Abt. School San Stefano 7-15 (Aviator Dept. San Stefano) Aircraft School (Tayyare Mektebi) at Air station at Yesilköy 1915 Çanakkale'de Pilot Uçus bölük komutani (Flight Commander in Çanakkale)
Reiners Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 11th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 5-17 to 2nd Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 8-17
Schliegel (Schiegel) Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce 3-17 shown 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 11-17
Seidler or Seydler or Sydler Frank civilian / Lt (Lt) Pilot Airforce att Dardanelles Flieger-Abteilung 2-15 later 1st Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk at Çanakkale 5-15 (shown 18-3-15) RTG 9-15
Straup VzFeldwebel (Lt) Observer Airforce 14th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 2-18
Walther (Walter) Siegfried VzFeldwebel (Lt) Pilot Airforce (Jasta 55) Jagdstaffel 1 (F) 4-18
Warscheid F. Unteroffizier (Lt) Pilot Airforce 5th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk to 9th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk
Wiese Sgt / VzFeldwebel (Lt) Observer Airforce 14th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 2-18
Zelle (possibly Zell Theodor) Unteroffizier (Lt) Pilot Airforce 15th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk 1-18

Cheers

S.B

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 23 Jul 2022 22:42

Dear Steve,

Thank you so such for the list of German NCOs that became officers in the Ottoman Air Force. I think all of them were the holders of the Iron Cross First Class of Germany. They were also holders of Turkish decorations.

Edward L. Hsiao

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by stevebecker » 25 Jul 2022 02:20

Ed,
Mate not always, most did not gain the EK 1 or EK 11, but yes they would of had a War Medal from the Ottomans.
Some sure did like
Dobberstein Fritz Wachtmeister / VzFeldwebel (Lt) shown EK II & EK I
Chromik also had EK11 & EK 1 , and
well known flyers like Preussner Louis (Preußner Ludwig) and Seidler or Seydler or Sydler Frank had EK 11 and EK1
S.B

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Re: Full German Officers Name in Ottoman Army..

Post by Tosun Saral » 26 Jul 2022 10:25

German Cavalry LtGen von Liman, turkish ColGen Liman Paşa, chief of German Military mission to Kostantinopel weared his turkish uniform and waiting with his staff for the first audience of the Sultan Mehmet Reşat V. on Dec. 14th 1913
Source. Das interessante Blatt 25.12.1913
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