Since my previous posting, I have discovered that the Turkish 42nd Division was also involved in the campaign and was stationed on the Asia Minor coast in late 1915/ early 1916.
Can any one confirm, please, which regiments this Division had then and later? (I understand it may have changed when it had moved to the Syria region).
My Thanks,
Martin James
Re OOB of Turkish Divisions at Gallipoli - 42nd Division
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territoriale
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Bill Woerlee
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drewsart
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stevebecker
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territoriale
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Re 42nd Turkish Division
Bill and Andrew,
Thanks for answering my question and confirming the regimental numbers.
Martin
Thanks for answering my question and confirming the regimental numbers.
Martin
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drewsart
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Hi Martin
Just a little more information on this division
It appears that the unit formed in Syria and then proceeded to Palestine - it first appears in Palestine in January 1916 and remains on the organisational charts for XII corps until some time between August 1916 and August 1917. By 1917 it appears as part of I corps in Thrace and remains there until its break up in 1918.
the artillery regiment attached is the 42nd Regiment a fact that has been also been stated by SB in another post and from what i can find out it appears to have the following under strength composition
2 batteries of field guns
4 batteries of mountain guns
the Infantry regiments are as stated earlier and compose
65th Regiment: 1/65th Bn, 2/65th Bn , 3/65th Bn, 4/65th Bn, 65th Bn MG Coy
66th Regiment: 1/66th Bn, 2/66th Bn , 3/66th Bn, 4/66th Bn, 66th Bn MG Coy
123rd Regiment: 1/123rd Bn, 2/123rd Bn , 3/123rd Bn
I have found reference to a cavalry squadron but no number or other identification for it
I hope this helps fill the picture for you
Andrew
Just a little more information on this division
It appears that the unit formed in Syria and then proceeded to Palestine - it first appears in Palestine in January 1916 and remains on the organisational charts for XII corps until some time between August 1916 and August 1917. By 1917 it appears as part of I corps in Thrace and remains there until its break up in 1918.
the artillery regiment attached is the 42nd Regiment a fact that has been also been stated by SB in another post and from what i can find out it appears to have the following under strength composition
2 batteries of field guns
4 batteries of mountain guns
the Infantry regiments are as stated earlier and compose
65th Regiment: 1/65th Bn, 2/65th Bn , 3/65th Bn, 4/65th Bn, 65th Bn MG Coy
66th Regiment: 1/66th Bn, 2/66th Bn , 3/66th Bn, 4/66th Bn, 66th Bn MG Coy
123rd Regiment: 1/123rd Bn, 2/123rd Bn , 3/123rd Bn
I have found reference to a cavalry squadron but no number or other identification for it
I hope this helps fill the picture for you
Andrew
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drewsart
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Hi All
To add a little confusion to the mix and after reviewing an earlier post within the Turkish Divisions 1914-1918 concerning the battle of Tafileh 7th March 1918
I find reference to the 123rd Regiment MG coy ? but not as part of the 42nd Div as it was by then in Thrace. It appears from the post to have been attached to the 11th Div and 48th Div along with other adhoc units.
My quiry is this, the 123rd Regiment MG Coy does not fit the OOB for the 42nd Div as I found no refrence to an MG coy within it either while in Palestine or after in Thrace.
Was the 123rd MG coy formed and left in Syria/Palestine when the 42nd Div left and attached to other units as needed.
Andrew
To add a little confusion to the mix and after reviewing an earlier post within the Turkish Divisions 1914-1918 concerning the battle of Tafileh 7th March 1918
I find reference to the 123rd Regiment MG coy ? but not as part of the 42nd Div as it was by then in Thrace. It appears from the post to have been attached to the 11th Div and 48th Div along with other adhoc units.
My quiry is this, the 123rd Regiment MG Coy does not fit the OOB for the 42nd Div as I found no refrence to an MG coy within it either while in Palestine or after in Thrace.
Was the 123rd MG coy formed and left in Syria/Palestine when the 42nd Div left and attached to other units as needed.
Andrew
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Tosun Saral
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According to Görgülü's book "On Yıllık Harbin Kadrosu 1912-22 (The Personal of 10 Years Long War) p.100
The units stayed at Çanakkale after the withdravel of the Enemy (Sitiation on Jan. 6th 1916) Those units all arrived at Çanakkale just after the Gallipoli Land battles.
TS's note: We call Çanakkale rather then Gallipoli.
Group Commander at Çanakkale and commander of XIV th AC: Brigadier Cevat Pasha (Gen.of the Army Çobanlı) He was appointed to Galizia Front as commander of XVth AC on Nov. 1916
Chieff of Staff:Ly. Col. Şefik (Col. Aker)
-42nd Div. at Seddülbahir on the Gallipoli Peninsula: Lt. Col. M. Asım
-25th Div.: Lt. Col. Ali Fuat (Lt. Gen. Cebesoy)
--Chief of Staff: Capt. Kenan
42nd was transferred to Syrian front later.
VI th AC: Brigadier Hilmi Pasha
Chief of Staff:Lt. Col. Süleyman İlhami
- 24th Div. at Asia part: Col. Ali Remzi
Chief of staff:Capt. İbrahim
24th was later transferred to Syrian Front
- 26th Div. at Anafartalar: Lt. Col. Esat
Chief of staff: Maj. A.Nafiz (Gen. of the Army Gürman)
- A fire Regiment at Kabatepe
VI th AC with 25 and 26 was transferred to Romanian Front on Aug.1916
The units stayed at Çanakkale after the withdravel of the Enemy (Sitiation on Jan. 6th 1916) Those units all arrived at Çanakkale just after the Gallipoli Land battles.
TS's note: We call Çanakkale rather then Gallipoli.
Group Commander at Çanakkale and commander of XIV th AC: Brigadier Cevat Pasha (Gen.of the Army Çobanlı) He was appointed to Galizia Front as commander of XVth AC on Nov. 1916
Chieff of Staff:Ly. Col. Şefik (Col. Aker)
-42nd Div. at Seddülbahir on the Gallipoli Peninsula: Lt. Col. M. Asım
-25th Div.: Lt. Col. Ali Fuat (Lt. Gen. Cebesoy)
--Chief of Staff: Capt. Kenan
42nd was transferred to Syrian front later.
VI th AC: Brigadier Hilmi Pasha
Chief of Staff:Lt. Col. Süleyman İlhami
- 24th Div. at Asia part: Col. Ali Remzi
Chief of staff:Capt. İbrahim
24th was later transferred to Syrian Front
- 26th Div. at Anafartalar: Lt. Col. Esat
Chief of staff: Maj. A.Nafiz (Gen. of the Army Gürman)
- A fire Regiment at Kabatepe
VI th AC with 25 and 26 was transferred to Romanian Front on Aug.1916
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domster
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I checked the entry for the 1/123rd MG coy. As I was the person who posted the info about it in relation to Tafileh. The information was in an intelligence summary and came from an officer deserter. As I stated in my email this information probably needs to be treated with caution. However I have checked some other intelligence sources and they put the 1/123rd Regiment with the Composite Division of the VIII A.C. in the Kabr Mujahid-Shunet Nimrin area from at least May 1918 (I have not finished copying estimates for earlier dates) until early July 1918 when it was absorbed into the other units of the division.
It is listed as 200 rifles and 4 machine guns (presumably the MG coy?)
As I say they are listed as estimates and they may be wrong.
Also I have 123rd regiment as part of 21st division in Assir (southern Arabia) in 1915 which seems at odds with 42 Division (unless it transferred)?
Cheers
Dominic
It is listed as 200 rifles and 4 machine guns (presumably the MG coy?)
As I say they are listed as estimates and they may be wrong.
Also I have 123rd regiment as part of 21st division in Assir (southern Arabia) in 1915 which seems at odds with 42 Division (unless it transferred)?
Cheers
Dominic
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stevebecker
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Mate,
Its one of the most interesting thing about the Turkish Army is you never know where units are at any one time, just when you peg them down someone shows up else where.
That list you gave (in the other question) on the forces in Arabia has the 79th MG Co down near Maan with the Compostie Div so the movement od the 123rd MG Co should be no surprise.
Cheers
S.B
Its one of the most interesting thing about the Turkish Army is you never know where units are at any one time, just when you peg them down someone shows up else where.
That list you gave (in the other question) on the forces in Arabia has the 79th MG Co down near Maan with the Compostie Div so the movement od the 123rd MG Co should be no surprise.
Cheers
S.B
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Bill Woerlee
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Steve
G'day mate
The more I see of this the more I realise the chaotic condition of the Turkish Army. The Caucasus units are a case in hand. Rather than break divisions up, they were renamed to Regiments while Regiments were renamed to battalions which meant that in certain circumstances, two Regiments existed with the same number just to confuse matters further. For example, in 1917 the 9th Regiment was stationed north of Samarra in Mespot while the 9th Caucasus Regiment was deployed north west of Gumushkhane. This must have played havoc on the clerks in Constantinople trying to supply forces - a slip of the pen could transfer winter snow gear from the Caucasus Front to Samarra where it would be of the greatest benefit in 40C plus temperatures.
Cheers
Bill
G'day mate
The more I see of this the more I realise the chaotic condition of the Turkish Army. The Caucasus units are a case in hand. Rather than break divisions up, they were renamed to Regiments while Regiments were renamed to battalions which meant that in certain circumstances, two Regiments existed with the same number just to confuse matters further. For example, in 1917 the 9th Regiment was stationed north of Samarra in Mespot while the 9th Caucasus Regiment was deployed north west of Gumushkhane. This must have played havoc on the clerks in Constantinople trying to supply forces - a slip of the pen could transfer winter snow gear from the Caucasus Front to Samarra where it would be of the greatest benefit in 40C plus temperatures.
Cheers
Bill
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drewsart
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Tosun
Thanks for the confirmation that this Division was indeed in the Çanakkale area just after the withdrawal of the Allied forces prior to being sent on to Syria.
My sources only have it in syria and this information now ties it with what Martin has stated that it was indeed at Çanakkale.
Dominic thanks for the clarification on the MG coy sitaution and i guess this illistrates well what Bill and steven are saying that the OOBs in this late part of the war are fluid in the construction.
Andrew
Thanks for the confirmation that this Division was indeed in the Çanakkale area just after the withdrawal of the Allied forces prior to being sent on to Syria.
My sources only have it in syria and this information now ties it with what Martin has stated that it was indeed at Çanakkale.
Dominic thanks for the clarification on the MG coy sitaution and i guess this illistrates well what Bill and steven are saying that the OOBs in this late part of the war are fluid in the construction.
Andrew
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Tosun Saral
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