make up of the 59th Turkish Div

stevebecker · Post by **stevebecker** » 01 Feb 2007 08:59

Mates,

As we are looking at the these Arab Divs can you give any details of this Div formed around March 1917.

I did notice that the 59th Artillery Regt under Maj. Bekir Sitki was attached to the 54th Div, can you tell me when that happened and what happened to the 54th Artillery Regt?

Cheers

S.B

drewsart · Post by **drewsart** » 01 Feb 2007 21:52

Hi Steve

I only have sketchy information on this division - hope this helps, maybe others on the forum have more.

I have the 59th Division first appearing as part of the newly raised Gallipoli garrison under XIV Corps in December of 1916.

By August of 1917 it had been transferred to another newly formed Corps the XIX and still remained on garrison duty at Gallipoli.

In September of 1917 the Division was stood down and made inactive, its units were scattered amongst other formations headed for Syria-Palestine to bring them up to strength. Here to I have a vague list of 42nd Div, 1st Division and 2nd Caucasian Cavalry Div receiving unit formations.

The Divisions HQ and upper echelon units remained at Gallipoli where they still appear on Turkish disposition records in January of 1918 but they too had also been stood down by June of 1918.

As a division I have no record of it actually acting as a whole formation other than to perform garrison duties

Regards
Andrew

territoriale · Post by **territoriale** » 01 Feb 2007 22:30

Andrew,

I assume from your posting that you do not know which regiments the 59th Division had.

Col. CCR Murphy (Soldiers of the Prophet) includes a reference to the Division being part of the 3rd Army Corps of the 7th Army, Yildirim Army Group in September 1917.

I also have it as being formed by March 1917, being in Smyrna to at least July 1917; to Palestine by December 1917 then being eliminated by March 1918.

Thanks,

Martin

drewsart · Post by **drewsart** » 01 Feb 2007 23:21

Hi Martin

That is correct as I said I only have sketchy information on this Division, so I don’t have its make up.

Thanks for reminding me of the Soldiers of the Prophet I had forgotten to check that one.

It would make sense that if the units were being transferred to Syria-Palestine in August/ September 1917 it would travel as a Division.

i have rechecked my other source and they states as an HQ it did not leave Gallipoli, however these two extracts may help to explain the situation. In Ordered to Die it states the following

Disposition of Turkish Forces January 1918. page 181
59th Division part of XIX Corps, Fifth Army - Gallipoli

Disposition of Turkish Forces June 1918. page 188
59th Division inactivated

on p 169 it states
"The Turks began to funnel forces to Aleppo and by the month of September, substantial forces were assembled there ...... they were staging for a deployment south. By the end of August, the 19th Infantry Division had arrived and its sister, the 20th Infantry Division arrived in September. A new III Corps was activated and deployed, as were its subordinate units, the 50th division from Macedonia and the 59th division form Aydin. Four or five trains a day ran south to bring these formations into Syria"

on p 171 it states
"The head quarters of the infantry divisions near Aleppo began to move south on September 30th. Not all went south to Palestine. Reorganizing the need to reinforce Halil Pasa with additional troops, the 50th infantry division was sent eastwards to Ramadiye in Mesopotamia. The 59th Infantry Division was then inactivated and its troops used to fill out other divisions departing the Aleppo staging area."

With regard to the creation of this unit i have it first appearing in Gallipoli as part of the XIV Corps in December of 1916.

But I again through this one out to people with more knowledge of the unit

Andrew

stevebecker · Post by **stevebecker** » 01 Feb 2007 23:50

Mates,

Yes I don't have any idea what Regts this Div had either.

The Div Cav Sqn (59th Div Cav Sqn) was at Amman in March 1918 which must be another of the break up of sub units.

Can I also ask about the 58th Div;

I have 58th Division under Colonel Ali Necip Bey

42nd Regt 55th Regt 130th Regt

No Artillery Regt as yet?

58th Div Cav Sqn

Cheers

S.B

drewsart · Post by **drewsart** » 02 Feb 2007 02:40

Hi Steve

I have the following for the 58th Division

It was formed in March 1917 and spent the majority of its service based in Medina resisting the actions of the Arab Leader Sheriff Hussein.

In 1917 it is shown as part of the Hijaz group along with 3 provincial divisions in Syria – West Arabia, giving assistance against the Arab revolt. In September 1918 it is shown in Anatolia. This unit was the last Turkish division to surrender in January 1919 and only did so after a decree by the Sultan of Turkey

OC Colonel Ali Necip
Chief of Staff Capt Yusuf Ziya

42nd Inf. Regiment: Major Ali Saip Bey - 1/42nd Bn, 2/42nd Bn, 3/42nd Bn, 42nd Regt MG coy (10)

55th Inf Regiment: Major Tevfik Bey - 1/55th Bn, 2/55th Bn, 3/55th Bn, 55th Regt MG coy (10)

130th Inf Regiment: Major Emin Bey - 1/130th Bn, 2/130th Bn, 3/130th Bn, 130th Regt MG coy (10)

58th Div Hospital Unit

58th Div Cav Sqn

58th Div Engineer Coy

58th Div Artillery Regt -
1/58th Field Artillery batty – (4 x 77mm QF)
2/58th Field Artillery batty – (4 x 77mm QF)
1M/58th Mountain Artillery batty (4 x 75mm mountain Howitzers)
2M/58th Mountain Artillery batty (4 x 75mm mountain Howitzers

Regards
Andrew

domster · Post by **domster** » 02 Feb 2007 10:45

Steve

Attachment is from British intelligence translation of captured German OOB dated July 1918

Cheers
Dominic

Tosun Saral · Post by **Tosun Saral** » 02 Feb 2007 13:22

My late father Maj. Gen. Ahmet Hulki Saral commanded 42th Regiment during the years 1950-53 in Kavak, a village of Gallipoli. After that duty he was promoted to Brigadiergeneral.The 42th was an honourable Regiment.Have decorations on his Standart. The 42th defended the holy city Medina during WW1. The 42th fought the War of Independance. The last station of the 42 was Uzunkopru at Greek Border. The 42 is now inactive. Was made a battalion according to new reorganizations plans of Turkish General Staff. Unfortunately I didnt served at the lines of 42th. According to Turkish Reserve Officers Training Rules I was made a signal officer not a infantrist. It is still a pain in my heart that hurts.

stevebecker · Post by **stevebecker** » 02 Feb 2007 23:01

Mates.

Thanks for the info.

Dominic, You stired up something here as I am now trying to fine the Div's of some of these regts on that list.

21st Regt, 162nd Regt and 178th Regt

Were they part of the 21st or 22nd Div's in Arabia or the 39th and 40th Div's also there?

interesting.

S.B

Bill Woerlee · Post by **Bill Woerlee** » 02 Feb 2007 23:17

Steve

G'day mate

Just a small input:

The 21st Regt in 1917 was at Beersheba as part of the 7th Division. In 1918 it was committed to the coastal part of the Palestine front although 3/21st Battalion was sent to the Hejaz.

The 162nd was an independent Regiment in the Tebuk area of the Arabian Peninsular although by 1918 it was either part of the HEF or 58th Division - intel was not sure. However, it was charged with protecting the area around Muadhdham up to Medina.

The 178th seems to have been part of the 59th Division. By 1918 it appears to have been committed to the defence of the Hejaz Railway with 1 battalion at Ma'an 2 battalions patrolling the Northern Hejaz

Cheers

Bill

stevebecker · Post by **stevebecker** » 03 Feb 2007 02:05

Thanks mate

S.B

territoriale · Post by **territoriale** » 04 Feb 2007 22:28

I have a little more information to add about some of the regiments covered in the thread so far.

178th Regiment - TE Lawrence's report on the capture of Akaba mentions a battalion of the 178th regiment being in the Maan area in June 1917 - before the formal break up of the Division. Does anyone know whether it was an independent regiment (like the 177th) or an earlier detatchment from the 59th Division?

Re the 42nd and 55th Regiments, the British Official History for Egypt and Palestine (Vol 1) mentions that they were permanently detached from the 14th Division (sometime in 1916?).

Another regiment that could have been part of the 59th Division is the 191st but only as I don't have any information on its location before March 1918. Has anyone more information on its date of arrival in the Palestine region?

Tosun - thanks for your informative posts on the Turkish Army, do you have any information on the OOB of the 59th Division?

Thanks,
Martin

Bill Woerlee · Post by **Bill Woerlee** » 04 Feb 2007 23:59

Martin

G'day mate

The only information I have on the 191st Regiment is from June 1918 where it formed part of the 48th Division and was located east of the Jordan.

Cheers

Bill

stevebecker · Post by **stevebecker** » 05 Feb 2007 01:56

Mate

What about the movement of the 42nd Regt.

I take it the 42nd Regt (14th Div) was used to form the 58th Div in June 1916 when the 42nd and 55th Regts were dettached from the 14th Div.

Cheers

S.B

domster · Post by **domster** » 05 Feb 2007 14:43

Guys

I have from Intelligence document of December 1916 titled “ The Turkish Hejaz forces and their reinforcement”

When news of the arab revolt arrived Turks sent 2 battalions of the 130th Reg. from Tartus and parts of the 42nd & 55th regs. Of the 14th div. were sent from Aleppo where they were in transit to the Caucasus. Some technical and artillery details were also sent. Some units below strength were re-made from the Yemen Mefraza. In addition at Medina there was already part of a battalion of the 129th reg., a Mohafiz reg. some train troops and fortress artillery. This force was named the Hejaz Expeditionary Force.
Present composition is ROUGHLY

Medina
4/131st Regt. Gendamerie unit from Aleppo province (600 turks)
1/129th regt. nominal battalion of regimental details and drafts (700 strong 80% turks)
Camel Corps regt. patrolling to Bir Derwish (500 strong turks)
79th machine gun coy. 4 MG’s mule transport. partly arab
Fortress artillery-old guns
3 companies of engineers taken from 47th, 48th & 49th div. engineers.

Bir Derwish district.
1,2,3/55th regt. mostly turks
2,3/42nd regt. mostly turks.
3/130th regt. camel transport battalion mostly arabs.
2 companies Mule Mounted Infantry-turks
Camel Corps regt. patrolling to Bir Raha
1 battery camel mountain artillery-22nd artillery regt.
Field gun batteries?
Aeroplane section 3 planes [3rd Aeroplane Company]

Bir Raha district
1,2/130th regt. 700 strong 30% arabs
Camel Corps-300 Shammar Arabs
Company Mule Mounted Infantry
3 mountain guns
2 field guns
Wireless section-apparatus on 3 carts.

Line of communication units

Railway
Mohafiz Alai
Camel Corps regt.-HQ Bueir, 1 company and 2 guns. Company at Abu el-Naam and 1 at Bowat.

El-Ula
1 battalion perhaps missing 1/42nd Ageyl camel corps-Arabs

El-Wejh
1 battalion gendames 800 strong turks
Agyel camel corps-arabs.

Implication is 42nd & 55th were part of HEF but not 58th div. which might explain why they are not in the 58th div. list of my scan. As Bill says the relationship between HEF and 58th div. is murky-I have seen allied documents where they think they are separate units and 58th div. is under direct orders of IV army.

Ooh my head aches! Somebody ought to write a book about this! i am just impressed by our ability to discuss all this and the information that is flowing- a year ago I thought there was no information out there at all. What a great forum!

Cheers
Dominic

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